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Community POTW #138

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Jul 7, 2019.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

  2. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    Seeing as the obvious sets are obvious and effectively the same as the gen 6 sets I'll just post something else

    Charizard @ Charizardite X
    Ability: Blaze
    252 Attack, 4 Special Defence, 252 Speed
    Jolly nature
    - Belly Drum
    - Flame Charge
    - Dragon Claw
    - Steel Wing / Brick Break / Thunder Punch / Roost

    It's situational and difficult to set up, but Belly Drum Charizard is a classic, now enhanced with mega evolution. Flame Charge after Belly Drum hits harder than Flare Blitz does after Dragon Dance and gives this set a sort of Blaziken-esque feel in that it keeps on getting faster and faster as time goes on, making it hard to revenge kill, except it doesn't kill itself when attacking but when setting up. Dragon Claw after Belly Drum hits ridiculously hard and will OHKO virtually everything that does not resist it, and even quite a bunch of Steel types that do, like offensively built Heatran. The final move is situational filler. Steel Wing covers Mega Altaria. Brick Break hits Heatran harder than Dragon Claw does and also gets by it when it has a balloon (unlike Earthquake). Thunder Punch hits Mega Slowbro harder than Dragon Claw does and also covers Tapu Fini, Primarina, and Azumarill (Steel Wing also covers those last three). Finally, Roost is an option to recover health, although this Charizard should just stick to destroying whatever is in front of it.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  3. XaelOstigian

    XaelOstigian Competitive...kinda

    Behold genwunner's mascot, and the only non-Galar starter to make it into the Galar dex. No doubt because of its consistent popularity and the fact that its basically a fire-breathing dragon. Never jumped on board the bandwagon though. Oddly enough I think I preferred the Poliwag line back in my juvenile days of gen 1 (I liked the swirly belly okay). Despite this popularity, there are frankly better Fire types you can choose from that are not 4x weak to Stealth Rock. Even by Fire starter standards, Typhlosion is faster and has the ever spammable Eruption while Blaziken has a wide movepool and access to Speed Boost as its hidden ability. And while Charizard has two great Mega Evolutions, one being a physical powerhouse that finally gets Dragon typing and the other a Drought user that incinerates the competition, neither will make it into gen 8 since Mega Evolution will no longer be a thing. Long story short, let's just say I'm not fearing my final battle against the Galar Champion if this is the worst he can throw at me.
    I can't be the only one who thinks Charizard is overrated right?
    Lord Godwin likes this.
  4. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    Typhlosion has the same speed as Charizard, it's not faster. Typhlosion has very different qualities sure, and I love running that Flash Fire + Eruption combination on it because in sunlight it hits harder than Kyogre's Water Spout, but I really don't think it's better than Charizard. And even though megas are victims of the dexit, I highly doubt Charizard will be any worse off with dynamaxing being a thing in gen 8, allowing Charizard to set up sunlight while attacking with Max Flare and utilise its Solar Power ability. And with max moves being more powerful than regular moves and Solar Power Charizard actually having more special attack than Mega Charizard Y (assuming sunlight is up) it stands to reason that dynamaxed Charizard is going to hit significantly harder than Mega Charizard Y.

    At least from what we've seen so far, I'd wager that Charizard could be the most broken dynamaxing pokémon in Galar simply because of that Solar Power ability combined with the max moves setting the sunlight. And if max moves are anything like Z-Moves in that they don't take over the specifics of the base moves except loosely base their base power on them, Charizard has Blast Burn to get some extremely high powered Max Flares off. I've done some maths and if Blast Burn results in a roughly 180 base power Max Flare, Solar Power Charizard can potentially OHKO Gyarados with it in the sunlight.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
    EKZ1505 likes this.
  5. Alita54

    Alita54 Well-Known Member

    I honestly thought before gen 6 Charizard was underrated and neglected. Like them or not Charizard did need megas to make him competitive again and he's a old school poke so of course many fans are going to always love him. Also there are advantages to being fire/flying like being immune to ground unlike other starters so it's really just a matter of what your team needs. He also has solar power which allows him to hit harder in the sun on the special side than any other starter too.

    Wouldn't it be better to take EV's out of speed and invest them more into Charizard's bulk? With flame charge you will still end up being very fast. But with belly drum I would think you would need at least some investment into bulk especially on the special side since that cuts your HP and leaves you very vulnerable to super effective special moves which hit x zard harder than physical ones.
  6. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    I'd go with shifting from attack to bulk before shifting from speed to be honest. That Charizard is somewhat of a glass cannon and it needs all the speed it can get. After a Flame Charge it can outspeed most Scarf users and after two it outspeeds virtually everything, but it needs to get those boosts off first. While at +6 it isn't short on power, including Tough Claws it has effectively almost 950 attack at level 50.
  7. Mestorn

    Mestorn Wandering Battler

    Ah Charizard, the Original Fire Starter and nearly everyone's first pet dragon. Charizard's popularity is titanic, only matched by Pikachu, Sylveon and the pokégods themselves. As such, it was gifted with two Mega Evolutions which rocketed it into the spotlight.

    Scorching Dragon
    Ability: Blaze/Drought
    Item: Charizardite Y
    -Air Slash/Focus Blast
    -Tailwind/Dragon Pulse
    Nature: Modest (+SATK, -ATK) or Timid (+SPE, -ATK)
    EVs: 252 SATK/252 SPE/4 HP

    Standard Mega Charizard Y. Mega Evolution is rather interesting in regards to the weather wars. While the slower weather pokémon being sent out at the same time "wins" Drought takes effect when Charizard Mega Evolves, so if Charizard is sent out at the same time as Tyranitar, it will "win" the weather war by Mega Evolving next turn (lest the Tyranitar also Mega Evolves...), allowing Charizard Y to strike at Tyranitar's now weaker SDEF.

    In regards for moves, Flamethrower is reliable Sun-boosted STAB, blasting everything that isn't a resist or especially bulky. Air Slash is a secondary STAB for non-Rock Fire resists, while Focus Blast provides great coverage and strikes down Tyranitar with impunity. Solarbeam works great in the sun, roasting opposing Rock and Water types not named Tyranitar or Nihilego without much issue. Last move is up for preference. Tailwind patches up Charizard Y's decent Base 100 into something terrifying while providing double support with Sun. Dragon Pulse hits Dragons hard, which may be worth considering though a niche pick.

    Other Options
    Heatwave -If you are using Charizard Y in doubles, Heatwave is a godsend, roasting the opponents team quickly and without mercy.

    Preferred Partners
    Chlorophyll Sweepers such as Exeggutor, Sawsbuck, Venusaur and Victreebel all appreciate the sun, and will use it to run rampant over the opposing team, while providing STAB coverage against Water, Ground and Rock types, freeing up a slot on Charizard's moveset and having the potential to break through sponges that would otherwise trouble Charizard Y (Psyshock for Exeggutor, and the other 3 can go Physical). Sawsbuck can run Wild Charge to dispatch opposing Pelippers if it can catch them off guard. In turn, The Chlorophyll sweepers enjoy Mega Charizard Y's capability to tank sun boosted Fire attacks for them as well.

    Tapu Koko -It easily dispatches most Water and Dragon types that trouble Charizard Y, and enjoys the fact that Charizard deals with most Ground types well due to their normally poor SDEF and Charizard's own immunity to Earthquake.
  8. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    Some of the Charizard's evolution line's prominent roles & appearances.

    Poor Poor Charizard Y, living in the shadow of the much more popular Charizard X...

    Charizard, this Pokemon has such an immense history behind it's immense popularity.
    So Charizard, his popularity is so immense that honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he's more popular than Pikachu and with such immense popularity comes immense history behind this Pokemon, first starting off as often being marketed as the starter Pokemon of Blue (Rival) or Green in Japan which was later confirmed canon in the Let's Go games. However easily his most recognizable role is Ash's Charizard who came off as an arrogant fire-breathing dragon that cost him the league making Ash realize he needs to better work with his Charizard rather than simply say commands. Ironically this wouldn't be the first time a Charizard cost him the league as one Mega Charizard X Blast Burned Ash's chances of victory away in the Kalos League but you have to admit, that was a pretty cool battle. There's also of course Red's Charizard from the Pokemon Origins anime who serves as his main ace in helping him catching all 151 Pokemon, defeat all 8 Gym Leaders and challenge the Pokemon League itself. Finally, there's of course the Pokemon Adventures version which follows more closely to GameFreak's artwork long ago, depicting Charizard as Blue's ace Pokemon whose firepower is fiercely hot and later evolves into Mega Charizard Y alongside X's Charizard who evolves into Mega Charizard X. Oh yeah, X's Charizard. If you never thought Charizard's could be adorable, you should see X's Charizard who is always hugging it's tail since it was a Charmander.

    X's Mega Charizard X
    Item: Charizardite X
    Ability: Tough Claws
    Nature: Jolly Nature (+Spe, - Sp. Atk)
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe
    Flare Blitz/Thunder Punch (Belly Drum)
    Dragon Claw
    Dragon Dance/Belly Drum
    Earthquake/Roost/Flame Charge

    Pretty straightforward, attack, attack, attack, maybe some heals or a speed boost but Belly Drum as an alternative to Dragon Dance is a bit more risky, perhaps even gimmicky as your also relying on Flame Charge for extra speed and Roost for extra heals. Honestly I'd say only use Belly Drum if you really want to use Belly Drum.

    Blue's (or Green's in Japan) Mega Charizard Y
    Item: Charizardite Y
    Ability: Drought
    Nature: Timid Nature (+Spe, - Atk)
    EVs: 252 Sp. Atk/252 Spe
    Solar Beam
    Air Slash/Focus Blast/Ancient Power
    Blast Burn/Roost/Defog/Will-O-Wisp/Tail Wind

    Also pretty straightforward, attack, attack, attack, maybe some heals.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  9. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    Don't run Flare Blitz on Belly Drum sets. It's just suicide and Flame Charge already hits everything you want to hit with your fire coverage hard enough. For example:

    +6 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flame Charge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 314-372 (201.2 - 238.4%)

    Mega Metagross is a pokémon with 150 base defence and Charizard takes two health bars away with a super effective Flame Charge. Halve that damage for neutral hits and realise that most pokémon do not have nearly the defence of Mega Metagross and you're still taking out targets in a single hit. For example:

    +6 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flame Charge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 222-262 (122.6 - 144.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    There is simply no point in throwing away your own health with Flare Blitz when you're at +6.
    shoz999 likes this.
  10. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    Forgot about recoil damage + belly drum = X_X. I'll fix that.
  11. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    I'd say let's take a step back. Belly Drum should never be considered a standard option; as enticing as that +6 Attack may seem, it carries the ultimate high risk with it. Considering Charizard's base form loses 50% of its HP to Stealth Rock, and even in Mega Form X it loses 25%, it doesn't always have the HP to spare, lest it put itself in immediate KO range. The reason why Dragon Dance is so widely seen as opposed to Belly Drum is there's virtually no risk involved and you get the speed and power in one fell swoop.

    It's not entirely useless, but it's a little too risky to ever be your first choice. Reliability has a high value; when your win condition has a good chance to outright turn into a lose condition, it should be considered a gimmick.

    On the subject of Y though, despite getting STAB, Air Slash isn't really a great option due to low power and not offering much in the way of coverage. In terms of coverage, Solarbeam is obvious for its ability to fry water types in the Sun, and Focus Blast nails its two would-be counters, Tyranitar and Heatran. 3 Attacks + Roost is pretty standard because MegaZard Y actually does have decent special bulk so it's able to keep itself healthy to keep nuking throughout the match.
    shoz999 likes this.
  12. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    Oh, I wasn't meaning to suggest it as such. My thought process was more that the Dragon Dance set is already so widely seen and so much standard that it doesn't really need to be mentioned here again as a suggestion from us, I'm sure the writers of PotW will already include it regardless.
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