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Community POTW #139

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Aug 25, 2013.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

    Time for the next PotW and this week the generator provided a classic Johto Pokémon

    [​IMG]

    Magcargo is an often overlooked Pokémon, but can be rather formidable in battle with the right set

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/219.shtml

    Go nuts
     
  2. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    Magcargo used to be completely useless, in 3rd gen I only used it much because it halves breeding time, but in 5th gen it gained Shell Smash, which actually makes it somewhat threatening (although still very gimmicky and any Aqua Jet is going to kill it).

    Magcargo @ Life Orb
    Timid nature
    252 Sp.Atk, 252 Speed
    Weak Armor
    -Shell Smash
    -Fire Blast
    -Earth Power
    -Hidden Power Rock / Ancientpower

    Simple, straightforward, suicidal kill or be killed. Switch in on something that can't threaten you, and potentially take a weak hit to activate Weak Armor. Shell Smash on the switch to give a huge rise to your speed (at +3 Speed Magcargo reaches 435 speed which outruns most threats in NU). At the same time, unleash your 518 Sp.Atk stat to incinerate everything with Fire Blast. Earth Power is the other special attack that Magcargo gets (it really doesn't get anything else), and I guess it covers Regirock, and Hidden Power Rock is secondary STAB and gets decent coverage with Earth Power, and covers Charizard and Mantine I guess. Ancientpower is an alternative that is weaker but gets a cool side-effect that might come in handy occasionally, although is far too uncommon to rely on. Do note that after Weak Armor and Shell Smash activation your defence stat is halved and with only base 50 HP and base 80 Sp.Def it isn't going to take any hit well. Aqua jet in particular will always OHKO. This is a suicidal Magcargo, but it really can't do all that much else besides Shell Smash. Fire Blast is chosen over Flamethrower because Magcargo won't last long enough to run out of PP anyway.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2013
  3. Mestorn

    Mestorn Wandering Battler

    Hello candidate for possessing the worst typing ever!

    Pros: Magcargo actually has a very wide (support) moveset for a fire type. Along with the traditional Sunny Day, Toxic, Substitute and Will-o-Wisp fare, Magcargo also possesses more uncommon moves like Recover, Stealth Rock {not a staple for a fire type}, Acid Armor, Curse, Amnesia, Dual Screens, Yawn, Stockpile and Refresh. That, combined with Flame Body makes Magcargo fairly adept at spreading statuses around and triggering switches. Also... its... defense... is good... And its low low speed is viable for trick room. In Magcargo's defense, it is effective at walling due to its Defense and ability to inflict burns.

    Cons: THAT TYPING. Fire-Rock is one of the worst type combinations in the game. Sure you get 6 resistances, including a quad resistance to Fire, but aside from that, its weaknesses are far more crippling. TWO 4x weaknesses to Ground and Water, two of the most popular attacking types in the game doesn't help Magcargo's tune. Factor in a weakness to Stealth Rock and fighting type attacks, and you find that Magcargo has trouble walling what it is supposed to wall. And to top it off, while its Defense is good and Special Defense is Average (80) its HP is pitiful preventing it from being an effective wall.

    The Verdict: Use Torkoal. Despite the Cargo, this snail is not going anywhere. It might be better if it got Baton Pass.
     
  4. Forestix

    Forestix New Member

    Macchargo

    Maccargo | Charcoal
    Docile Nature
    Ab: Flame Body
    Amnesia, Recover, AncientPower, Lava Plume

    Burn them all. And, if is possible, raise stats with AncientPower + Amnesia.
     
  5. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    I agree with this. Torkoal is better in pretty much every way. Torkoal gets better Sp.Atk, better HP, better Def, slightly worse Sp.Def which is more than offset by the HP difference, Eruption access, both get Shell Smash and Explosion, and Torkoal is not 4x weak to Water and Ground. Magcargo has some things over Torkoal though, like a slightly larger support movepool (it gets Dual Screens, Recover, Pain Split, and even Memento for some reason), as well as being a little bit faster (base 30 vs base 20) which makes a difference after Shell Smash, and Magcargo gets better abilities.


    WannaBeLatios:
    Magcargo @ Light Clay
    Sassy nature
    Flame Body
    defensive EV's
    -Light Screen
    -Reflect
    -Memento
    -Overheat

    Only use this in Trick Room. It should work similar to dual screens + Memento Latios, although in most times it will take a water or ground hit and die before it sets up.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2013
  6. Nutter t.KK

    Nutter t.KK can Mega Evolve!

    As far as I can tell Macargo's biggest Draw is it's Standard abilities is useful for hatching eggs while building a team, not running in a battle team.

    Dream World Slugma is available, but I doubt Weak Armor is useful, but I can be wrong.

    Personally while AncientPower bonus is neat, but the 1 in 10 chance in Stat boost with up to 8PP available, means I would never to rely on it.
     
  7. Well...at least it's a better Shell Smash sweeper than Torkoal. Unlike Torkoal, it can outrun all base 95s (namely Jynx and Primeape) with a Modest nature at +2 and everything up to and including Liepard with a Timid nature. Still stinks, though. Torkoal only gets away with it since it needs Shell Smash to beat most spinblockers. I guess if you wanted a bulky Fire-type and a check to stuff like Swellow, then Magcargo could do both jobs while saving you a spot for something else. I'd still rather use pretty much any other Rock-type, though.
     
  8. OceanicLanturn

    OceanicLanturn Non non non!

    ^Nailed it.

    Nail the Snail

    Magcargo @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Def
    Bold Nature
    - Lava Plume
    - Toxic
    - Stealth Rock
    - Recover

    A totally genuine set from the heart and definitely not copied from Smogon... yeah. Magcargo is a bad case of a Pokemon that even a evolution wouldn't completely give it redemption. It's Fire/Rock typing is horrible, leaving it exposed to water moves and ground moves, and fighting moves, as well as a nasty Rock weakness. However, it could be useful to wall certain Pokemon such as Swellow and Driffy. So this set spreads burns and poisons around, while setting up rocks. Recover is too wall and stall and annoy some stuff.
     
  9. Meowmeow

    Meowmeow selfproclaimed guru

    Magcargo is a piece of junk. The moment it received the type of Fire/Rock, all hope was gone. Weaknesses to fighting and rock (which comes with Stealth Rock problems), and double weaknesses to water AND ground mean Magcargo will disappear from the battlefield very quickly. Its stats are bad too. It has a movepool that includes Shell Smash, but good luck pulling it off in execution and delivery. Execution? Look at those weaknesses. Delivery? A base 30 speed will get you nowhere with arrival three hundred years later than planned. What about offensive coverage? Fire and rock are not that great together, despite being wonderful types for offense. In NU, use a different fire type. Even Torkoal is better. You also have Camerupt, Charizard, Rapidash, and Simisear as superior options. Even the likes of Lampent, Magmar, and Heatmor are better. Even the horrendous Flareon is better! If Flareon is a better choice, then you know you are doomed. What do all of these other options have over Magcargo? It could be superior type, movepool, stats, or ability. Generally, its a combination of all of the above.
    Don't use Magcargo is you want to play seriously.
     
  10. Star Champion AJ

    Star Champion AJ Well-Known Member

    If you want to use Magcargo at all, just one hint...
    Use Magcargo to hatch eggs, not for battling, it's its best feature after all...
     
  11. Melonhead215

    Melonhead215 "That one guy"

    Honestly Magcargo isn't that great of a Pokemon. It's outclassed by Torkoal in almost every way, only slightly edging it out in speed, so it's somewhat viable as a shell smasher.

    Smashing!
    Magcargo @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Weak Armor
    Evs: 252SpA/ 252 Spd/ 4 HP
    Jolly
    - Shell Smash
    - Ancientpower/Hidden Power Grass
    - Earth Power
    - Lava Plume/Fire Blast

    Pretty generic Shell Smash set. This setup allows Magcargo to be as fast as Pokemonly possible to outspeed stuff, as the nature and EVs represent. Shell Smash is obviously Shell Smash, and gives a big boost to Special Attack and Speed, allowing for it to become fairly fast. AncientPower is for STAB and more stat boosts if you're feeling lucky, Earth Power is a good coverage move, and Lava Plume deals some nice fire damage with a nice burn chance. (30%) Fire Blast is an option for more damage, but might cut Magcargo's unlikely sweep short if it misses. Hidden Power Grass deserves a mention as it covers both 4x weaknesses pretty well with a shell smash up.
    The item is to allow Magcargo to take a hit allowing it to always set a sweep up (outside of hail and sandstorm I guess) but it needs to watch out for entry hazards. As such you will want to have a spinner on the team. Weak Armor is the ability of choice for this set, as if hit physically, allows Magcargo to become even faster. Flame Body won't be needed as much as Magcargo isn't going to be taking many hits here.

    Counters: Uh, Every single water type ever? Seriously, Water types destroy Magcargo, as they wall both it's STABs and are 4x effective to it. It's also 4x weak to ground, so Earthquake, probably the most common attacking move in the entire game, is also going to vaporize it. Fast Pokemon that can outspeed a shell smash also put Magcargo to rest, as does everything that can take one or two hits from it. Really, don't worry about countering Magcargo, chances are you have a counter in your team already.

    Magcargo isn't very useful as a competitive Pokemon due to Torkoal doing everything it does and more, and it's got a pretty bad typing. It CAN run a stalling set fairly well, but it's just outclassed by almost everything that can stall. Unless it's a gimmick set or you really like Magcargo, keep it to doing what it does best: Hatching Eggs.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2013
  12. Kraleck

    Kraleck Well-Known Member

    Two common quad-Weaknesses, two fairly-common Weaknesses, two rather-useless Abilities, and a Threat Rating of 2 on the Kralexian Scale (patent pending) make Magcargo one of the worst 2-stage evolutionary line Pokémon to come out of Gen II.

    Stats:
    -HP - Bad - As if being a Rock Type AND Fire Type wasn't bad enough, Base 50 HP just kicks Magcargo when it's down.
    -Attack - Bad - I'm actually gagging right now as if I ate some bad snails at a hole-in-the-wall "French restaurant" and bait shop. Base 50 Attack is useless and a bulk of Magcargo's Offensive Moves are Physical.
    -Defense - Godly - This may be your one saving grace aside from being the perfect Egg hatcher. Base 120 is roughly par for Rock Types, but, unless you're talking about Torkoal, Zen Mode Darmanitan, or a Legendary, it's huge for a Fire Type.
    -Sp.Atk - Average - Base 80.*
    -Sp.Def - Average - Base 80.*
    -Speed - Good (Trick Room) - Base 30 is mostly a letdown, but at least there's Trick Room and Weak Armor.

    Abilities:
    -Flame Body - Lame-sauce. Anything actually hitting you with a Physical Move is almost always going to be using Earthquake, Stone Edge, Rock Slide, or Guts Ability. You're doing Pokémon like Hariyama and Conkeldurr a huge favor by using this Ability.
    -Magma Armor - Consider the odds of getting Frozen. Now consider the odds of anything using an Ice-Type Move on a Fire Type. Now consider the odds of this being useful in Battle.
    -Weak Armor - The only thing you should ever consider. Any Move you survive against will buff your Speed slightly.

    Kraleck's Select Moveset
    Stats: Timid Nature - Max Speed, Max Sp.Atk, rest HP
    Ability: Weak Armor
    Item: Focus Sash
    Moves: Shell Smash, Lava Plume/Overheat, Ancientpower, Earth Power/Hidden Power (Grass)

    Basically, Shell Smash if you know they can't/won't Taunt, get +3 Speed thanks to the Focus Sash, and launch a Hail Mary offense.
    If the Pokémon you send this out against has Truant, Shell Smash again, then go nuts.
    If you decide to use Ancientpower, cross your fingers, sacrifice your first-born, and pray to the RNG gods for a miracle Critical Hit with the omni-buff.
    Take Earth Power for non-Flying-Type Rock Types and HP (Grass) for non-Flying-Type Water Types.
    Lava Plume is an option if you would prefer a better chance of Burns over the raw Power of Overheat.

    * Refer to PotW #137 (Golurk), Post #8.
     
  13. pika250

    pika250 Well-Known Member

    Shouldn't that read POTW 139? And one use of Shell Smash only ups Speed by two stages, not three.
     
  14. seedtree

    seedtree New Member

    Golurk was POTW 137 and after shell smash AND weak armor, Magcargo has three speed boosts
     
  15. [​IMG]

    Magcargo
    Its body temperature is roughly 18,000 degrees F. Flames spout from gaps in its hardened shell.

    Magcargo @ Leftovers
    Bold - Flame Body
    248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    ~Stealth Rock
    ~Recover
    ~Lava Plume
    ~Toxic
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2013
  16. Feeshy

    Feeshy muse of snark

    Hey, Macargo. That Pokemon that has a pre-evolution that reminds me of California's Banana slugs. Eh, I guess I'll see what crazy strategies I can think up.

    Macargo with Weak Armor and holding Leftovers.
    Naughty nature. EVs: Max Hp and Attack.
    -Shell smash
    -Lava plume
    -Ancientpower
    -Body slam

    Shell smash raises attack, special attack, and speed, but lowers defenses. Body slam is a physical move, which is good to have if your opponent has low defense. Lava plume is a nice fire-type move. Ancientpower has a chance of upping all of your stats at once, which might just get your defenses back up while upping the rest of your stats if you haven't already maxed them out with Shell smash. Weak armor will help up your speed, while taking away defense. Shell smash took away most of your defense probably, so Weak Armor is maxing out your speed for you.
     
  17. sbktdreed

    sbktdreed Veteran Trainer

    Flame Body w/ Life Orb/Focus Sash
    Modest w/ 252 Sp Attack, 130 Defense, 128 Sp Defense
    Flamethrower
    Ancientpower
    Earth Power
    Yawn/Hidden Power [Electric/Grass/Psychic]/Substitute/Pain Split

    Countering-NU
    High Sp Attack and Sp Defense with Water/Fighting/Ground/Rock-type moves like Focus Blast Gardevoir/Mr. Mime or Power Gem Ampharos.
     
  18. Archstaraptor

    Archstaraptor devolved.

    It's important to mention that Heatran also has a "crippling" 4x weakness to ground.Despite this fact,it is right up there in the usage rankings.
    That said though,Heatran overshadows Magcargo in many places defensively due to its steel typing,stats and ability(meaning Mag's quad resistance to fire is overlooked).
    Unlike Heatran however,Magcargo has recover,shell smash, and effective ways of boosting sp.defence as well as defence.Its flame body ability is also readily available; his OU rival doesn't have this luxury just yet.

    Magcargo@rocky helmet/leftovers
    *Defensive*
    -Flame body
    -Stockpile
    -Ancient Power / Stealth Rock
    -Lava Plume
    -Recover

    Magcargo switches in and punishes physical attackers who attempt to go straight for a SE hit on its teammate- the set damages them with every attack(helmet),and has a good chance of burning the foe too.
    Stockpile boosts both defences to keep you safe from further attacks - use on physical attacks who a. suffer greatly from burns & b. are unlikely to deal heavy / super effective damage. Only set up when major checks are gone - else you'll find yourself switching out again.
    Everybody seems to love stealth rock ; it's a good move on Magcargo,as it's likely to set it up,plus adds more residual damage to its arsenal.Otherwise,ancient power is a sp.STAB(which is better than its physical),with a great bonus on a good day.Hits fire types better than everything else too.
    Lava Plume boosts burn chances further,and is a great attack overall.Recover restores damage taken from attacks with no drawbacks-perhaps its greatest asset over Heatran.

    Partner-wise,you need to support Magcargo's weaknesses to ground,water and fighting.Using it in conjunction with other walls is great,as the burns help them to do their job.

    To clarify,Magcargo isn't cut out to be an all-out physical attacker.Shell smash is great ; sweeping with it, less so.It's a great switch-in-and-out poke that can spread residual damage around relatively easily.Like any other with a 4x weakness to an attack,it merely needs team support to work around the problem.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2013
  19. OceanicLanturn

    OceanicLanturn Non non non!

    - Heatran's typing may leave it x4 weak to ground. You're missing out the fact that Fire/steel is a far superior typing. Both are weak to fighting moves. But on top of that, Heatran only has x2 water weakness, while Magcargo x4. Aside from that, Magcargo is weak to the crippling Stealth Rock. What's more, Heatran has far better stats, with Magcargo only outshining it in defense, which is pretty much useless since a x4 Earthquake from a stronger attacker can still KO~2HKO it anyways. Use Heatran.

    - Boosting defenses or special defenses is bad competitively without boosting offense (eg: Calm Mind & Bulk Up is useful while stuff like Amnesia isn't). Since you can easily get phased away. Unlike boosting offenses, you still have that one strong hit before the foe roars you. And yeah, recover is a pretty sore point for Heatran. However, the fact that Magcargo has literally bad speed means it can wall a foe with Recover, because too many things outspeed it. You can just literally switch into a water type when Magcargo is recovering, and KO it from there. Shell Smash is also a bad move for Magcargo. I believe stuff like Carracosta is a better smasher, since 30 speed is definitely not a phenomena.

    - Oh yeah, and unlike Magcargo, Heatran can't be toxic.

    - Rather than a rival, I think Magcargo should be called a younger counterpart or something, dunno?
     
  20. Manafi's Dream

    Manafi's Dream フェアリータイプタイム

    It's not even the best at that role. Volcarona does a better job because it can learn Fly, thereby allowing you to Fly to a perfect hatching location while maximizing the number of spaces available in your party for hatching eggs.
     
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