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Community POTW #140

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Jul 21, 2019.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

  2. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    Guzzlord really is quite unfortunate. Its stats aren't bad, but its movepool just doesn't fully complement it. It has a gargantuan hitpoints stat but very little solid recovery options. It gets Drain Punch, which doesn't work too well with low defences and high hitpoints, Stockpile, which can recover it once if you Z-Power it, Swallow, which is just too circumstantial and clumsy to use, and Rest, which is equally unreliable with Tapu Koko and Tapu Fini being as popular as they are. Its attack stats are decent but not amazing, and it although it has a very good movepool both on the physical and on the special side, it doesn't get any way of boosting leaving its damage output quite underwhelming.

    One thing I've tried with Guzzlord is to use a Guard Split Shuckle to boost its bulk. After the Guard Split Guzzlord gains effectively base 223/150/150-ish defences, which is insanely bulky when it also has Stockpile to boost further, and stage boosts stack by multiplication with the Guard Split (as in, each Stockpile adds 50% of the post-Guard Split defence stats, not the original defence stats). It becomes so bulky even fairy hits have a hard time 2KOing it. But its damage output is poor and it has literally no way of boosting that damage output aside from the situational Weakness Policy (Beast Boost starts boosting a defensive stat after Guard Split), making it prone to eventually getting worn down if not simply ignored by the opponents simply focusing on Guzzlord's partner. Simply put, the bulk becomes otherworldly insane, but it doesn't have enough direct threat to the opposition to turn that bulk into a win condition in a double battle. The exact calculations depend a bit on how you invest Guzzlord and Shuckle, but here's an example just to get a rough idea of what it can take:

    252 Sp.Atk Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Sp.Def Guzzlord after Shuckle Guard Split: 156-184 (47.2 - 55.7%) -- 64.8% chance to 2HKO

    That's STAB, 4x super effective, coming from 130 base special attack, and it doesn't even guarantee the 2KO. Brave Guzzlord can OHKO Tapu Lele back with Heavy Slam. Compare the bulk on a (very heavy) neutral hit:

    252+ Sp.Atk Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 Sp.Def Eviolite Chansey: 124-146 (34.7 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ Sp.Atk Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Sp.Def Guzzlord after Shuckle Guard Split: 92-110 (27.8 - 33.3%) -- 1 in 4096 chance to 3HKO

    After a single Stockpile, it's bulkier on the special side than Eviolite Chansey, and it's just as bulky on the physical side. Anything that isn't fairy damage, or a guaranteed portion of health taken out (like Toxic), isn't going to hurt this monster if you manage to set it up.

    Also, can I just say it annoys me that Guzzlord gets Magnet Rise while Zeraora, the pokémon that can officially levitate with magnetic fields, does not get Magnet Rise?
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
  3. Mestorn

    Mestorn Wandering Battler

    Guzzlord, said to be the boss of the Ultra Beasts, and hyped up in game due to its overwhelming destructive potential and as one of the highest leveled wild Pokémon in a post game dungeon. Does it live up to the hype? Sadly no. Its stats are for the most part unfocused outside of its HP stat, and its typing gives it a massive weakness to the most popular type in the game. That's not to say it is useless or easily played around. Guzzlord has the movepool befitting of a dragon and can run either physical or special sets when can quickly gain potency after a few beast boosts, making its checks irregular to say the least.

    Glutton's Might
    Ability: Beast Boost
    Item: Leftovers
    -Dragon Claw/Outrage
    -Heavy Slam
    -Knock Off
    Nature: Adamant (+ATK, -SATK) or Brave (+ATK, -SPE)
    EVs: 252 HP/252 ATK/4 SDEF

    Substitute allows Guzzlord a better opportunity to leverage its titanic HP stat in conjunction with leftovers, giving it the ability to eat a hit or two with the substitute and recover the damage off with leftovers. Works especially well against Fairies: if they switch in expecting a STAB move while you Substitute, they are now in an uncomfortable position where they can't damage Guzzlord without breaking the sub and are at the mercy of its titanic Heavy Slam attack (note, does not work against Pixilate Hyper Voice users). Knock Off is STAB with item disruption built in -don't need to state how great it is. Dragon Claw is reliable STAB, while Outrage is only to be used after the opponent's Fairy's have been cleared away, enabling Guzzlord to wreak havoc on the opposing team with the excellent synergy of Outrage and Beast Boost.

    Sadly largely a gimmick set, as any Bug Buzz user is able to easily get around the Substitute and Guzzlord is rather slow and has a lot of weaknesses, which can make getting that substitute up difficult.
  4. Aduro

    Aduro Mt.BtlMaster

    Guzzlord's stat line feels like it was badly hampered by the whole prime number gimmick. Its massive HP stat would be great if it either had decent defence stats or a defensive ability.
    But as it is, we've got a fairly tanky, quite slow pokemon with moderate attack stats that is vulnerable to all sorts of status. Its ability is fantastic for sweeping, as is its movepool. But it really needs tailwind or trick room to get any sort of momentum with Beast Boost. Offensively its type and movepool are handy. But its very difficult to switch in, and its slower than all these faries in higher tiers, as well as just powerful fighting type wallbreakers.

    At any rate, here's a gimmicky and usually ineffective moveset designed to catch faries off-guard after a u-turn or volt switch triggers a sitrus berry. If it had a useful hidden ability such as Gluttony or thick fat, it might actually be useful. But that's just wishful thinking.

    Guzzlord @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Beast Boost
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Belch/sludge bomb
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Snarl
  5. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    Guzzlord featured in Pokemon Adventures & the Pokemon Anime

    There's a lot of theories surrounding Guzzlord that it used to be a mutated Snorlax but I think dedicated USUM players were in for a real shock when they finally found Guzzlord's supposed homeworld, an apocalytpic version of Alola. In the Pokemon Adventures manga, Guzzlord is one of the Ultra Beasts that have attacked Ula'ula island, forcing the Trial Captains, the Kahuna's and any other Elite Four Members and powerful trainers that players may know from the games to escort civillians and stop these rampaging Ultra Beasts, Guzzlord being a particularly nasty one. However my favorite version of Guzzlord is actually the anime version where unlike in the Adventures manga where the trainers of Alola have a chance to save their island from the destructive Guzzlord, it is here in the anime where the island Guzzlord lives on has already been destroyed, turned into an apocalytpic-like wasteland. I never thought I'd say this but damn anime, you manage to be more mature & darker than your Adventures counterpart for once!

    Guzzlord Assault Vest

    Item: Assault Vest
    Ability: Beast Boost
    Nature: Brave Nature (+Atk, - Spe)
    EVs: 252 Atk/204 Def/48 Sp. Def
    Dragon Claw/Dragon Rush/Outrage
    Heavy Slam
    Rock Slide/Stone Edge

    So Guzzlord! It's a force of destruction in the games, anime & Adventures manga and yet it's stats have made it arguably the weakest Ultra Beast in competitive, due to it's frail, very very frail defenses which depending on you, may or may not need investment if you think Guzzlord's huge health is enough. So basic idea, Assault Vest Guzzlord and full on offense right? Seems simple.. NOPE because Guzzlord has a variety of offense moves that can be a life-or-death situation for Guzzlord. For example, if you want to opt for full power, go for Dragon Rush, Outrage, Payback or Stone Edge but all those moves also have some flaws that could cost Guzzlord dearly, especially moves that don't have a 100% hit rate! Now you could go for more consistent damage like Dragon Claw, Crunch or Rock Slide but all those moves also have a flaw in that they don't have a lot of power packing into them like the other previously named moves even though their not as risky. As for Heavy Slam? For the most part should consistently do well on Fairy-types with little to no problems.
  6. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Master of the freak show

    This is nice and all, and Guzzlord may be bulkier than a base Chansey after Guard Split, but if you were to have Guard Split the Chansey instead...

    252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey after Guard Split from Shuckle: 132-156 (18.7 - 22.1%) -- possible 5HKO

    Assuming 252 Sp.Def / 252 Def Bold Shuckle, Chansey effectively has 250/117/182 bulk after Guard Split... with an Eviolite. And recovery. This means that even in a double battle where it might be taking attacks from two opponents at once, it's still going to be extremely difficult to bring down compared to Guzzlord, whose only means of recovery is Rest.

    Not that I'm condoning this strategy in the first place, it seems very gimmicky and requires a lot of set-up for a fairly small payoff, but if you're going to Guard Split something, Chansey is the perfect choice for mostly the same reasons that you'd consider Guzzlord on paper (high HP, low to mediocre defenses), but it also has recovery and Eviolite to make it even harder to take down. Then again, this thread is about Guzzlord, not Chansey.

    Anyways, Guzzlord gets the questionable honor of being the only Ultra Beast to drop all the way to the lowest tiers. Looking at it, it's unfortunately quite clear why this is the case. Guzzlord has an extremely strange stat spread, which is characteristic of all Ultra Beasts, but unfortunately affects Guzzlord the worst. On paper its extremely high HP (third only to Chansey and Blissey) might seem like it gives it a niche as a solid wall or tank, but in reality that sky-high HP stat is undermined by awful 53/53 defensive stats, a lack of recovery options, and a very poor defensive typing, having weaknesses to Bug, Fighting, Dragon, and a crippling 4x weakness to Fairy. Its offensive stats are decent but fail to stand out in any way, at 101/97.

    I haven't used Guzzlord since the beginning of SM, but the one set I did use that could occasionally put in work was a Choice Specs set. The problem is, with Choice Specs it's basically a worse Hydreigon, as it lacks Hydreigon's offensive stats and ability to at least outpace most defensive Pokemon. If you really want to use Guzzlord in singles however, it's probably about your best bet.

    Guzzlord @ [​IMG] Choice Specs
    Modest - Beast Boost
    248 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 8 Sp. Def
    -Draco Meteor
    -Dark Pulse
    -Sludge Bomb

    Pretty straightforward set. Draco Meteor and Dark Pulse are your STABs, boasting great power at the cost of lowering your Sp. Atk, and decent power with no drawbacks respectively. Sludge Bomb nails incoming Fairies who wall your STABs, and Flamethrower at least does something to Ferrothorn, Magearna, etc. The problem is, you can run almost this exact same set (with Flash Cannon instead of Sludge Bomb) on Hydreigon and put in way more work in most games, or you can run a more conventional wallbreaker entirely, such as Kyurem-Black, Tapu Lele or Mega Medicham. There just isn't really any reason to use Guzzlord in inclusive formats.

    I kind of wish GameFreak had designed him as a Dragon/Steel type and perhaps given him some kind of recovery move. That might have given him a more solid niche.​
  7. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    Only issue I have with Chansey tbh is that it has even less offensive presence than Guzzlord. Guzzlord can at least put out some damage and actually become a threat if you run Weakness Policy, or if you want combine it with Tapu Fini for Swagger and Heal Pulse support. Chansey just doesn't have that, it has to rely on Toxic or Seismic Toss to actually do anything to opponents. But other than that, you're right. In terms of bulk Chansey is superior if you're Guard Splitting, although I'm not sure actually how Guard Split works with Eviolite. I don't think it takes the Eviolite into account, but I'm not entirely sure.
  8. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Master of the freak show

    Eviolite applies its boost after most stat modifications, so presumably it would simply apply the boost after the changes from Guard Split. In other words, if you had a Pokemon with an Eviolite and 100 Defense, and you used Guard Split from a Pokemon with 200 Defense, the first Pokemon would have the equivalent of 225 Defense. [(100 + 200)/2*1.5]
  9. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    There is something I never really understood about Guzzlord. What do you think GameFreak intended it's playstyle to be? It's bulk is a coin-toss, it's attack is a coin-toss. I like the high HP stat and it does reflect Guzzlord well but I feel like more could be done with this Pokemon considering it barely has any moves to support that high HP stat. An odd Pokemon don't you think?
  10. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    It's a Tank.

    Not a great one due to lopsided stats, but that's the closest thing to a niche it has. Too slow to sweep, not enough power to wallbreak. But its HP at least lets it take a hit and retaliate back.
  11. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    Before we go to the next one, I just wanted to say I've been experimenting a bit more with the Guard Split Shuckle supporting Guzzlord, and I think that with Rest over Stockpile, a Weakness Policy, Trick Room support, and Shuckle's Bug Bite activating the Weakness Policy, it's actually quite a monster that has carried me over a 100-win streak at the Battle Tree and is also a powerful menace in the battle spot. Here's a battle video to show you just how immortal it tends to be in practice and how to set it up, notice that these are not weak moves it tanks without worry. Mega Salamence's Double Edge, Z-Moves, Earthquake from Landorus... those are powerful moves.

    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
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