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Community POTW #143

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Sep 22, 2013.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

    Time for the next Pokémon of the Week and we have yet another fan favourite


    It's Togekiss, the amazing evolution of Togetic. It has a massively varied movepool and is capable of loads


    Go nuts
  2. justinjiaxinghu

    justinjiaxinghu class on my back


    Togekiss@Choice Scarf
    EVS: 252 SpA; 252 Spd; 4 HP
    Nature: Timid
    Trait: Serene Grace
    - Wish

    the new flinchhaxer. wish is to bluff a leftovers set or something. the rest is to maximize togekiss' coverage and deal as much damage as possible
  3. Mestorn

    Mestorn Wandering Battler

    Togekiss holds a special spot in my heart, being an overall awesome addition to an otherwise horrible evolution line.

    Pros: Togekiss’s stats are phenomenal; with both special stats exceeding 100 and better than average HP and defense, you have the makings of an extremely bulky special sweeper. In addition, Togekiss’s movepool contains memories of its time as a Togepi, with its move set being more akin to the ridiculous variety of a normal type than the limited fare of a normal-flying. With moves such as Air Slash, Aura Sphere, Flamethrower, Grass Knot, Hyper Voice Shadow Ball, Psychic and Signal Beam, Togekiss has a wide and varied special moveset, making it difficult to wall. Include Nasty Plot and the task becomes even more difficult. With the inclusion of Hustle, Togekiss can be a viable physical sweeper, though the cons of Hustle make it an inferior choice to the special moveset. Togekiss can also take on a supporting role, having dual screens, Toxic, Thunder Wave, Wish, Yawn, Baton Pass and Psycho Shift, it can easily sabotage its opponents or buff up its allies. What truly makes Togekiss threatening is the fact that it can pull off the same strategy as Jirachi; the dreaded para-flinch combo. With Serene Grace doubling the chance of Air Slash’s flinch chance to a whopping 66% plus the inclusion of Thunder Wave to drag everyone down to Togekiss’s speed, and you have a nearly unstoppable force.

    Cons: Togekiss’s typing leaves a lot to be desired, giving it three common weaknesses, including a debilitating Stealth Rock weakness. In addition, Togekiss’s base speed is a paltry 80, allowing it to be out sped by faster threats. Ground types, and Pokemon with Limber or Inner Focus can easily shutdown the para-flinch combo. Finally, Togekiss has a chronic case of the four moveslot syndrome, not always being able to cover everything due to the limit of four moves.

    The Verdict: Be ready for anything. Togekiss has such a wide moveset and such great defenses that it is impossible for any one pokemon to cover everything this peace lover can throw at you.
  4. Monster Guy

    Monster Guy Fairy Tale Man

    Trait: Serene Grace
    Bold nature
    EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
    Thunder Wave
    Nasty Plot
    Air Slash

    My third favorite Pokemon. I like Togekiss. She can take some hits, and dish them out. Thunder Wave and Air Slash with Serene Grace for some good haxxy fun. Nasty Plot makes you an offensive threat, and with your defenses, you can usually get multiple boosts. Roost is there for recovery, as well as ssurviving some super-effctive attacks by removing your Flying typing for the turn. The EVs and nature help you take Physical attacks better, since your Special Defense is already good. Leftovers helps you last longer.

    Watch out for Tyranitar, and anything that 4x resists Flying. You can also forego Nasty Plot for Aura Sphere to deal with them, but then certain Pokemon with high special defense like Blissey can wall you.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  5. philzone

    philzone Ready for trumpets

    Togekiss in doubles has 2 routes: scarf and flinch, or bulky follow me + tailwind/thunder wave support

    The best is follow me. it ties with amoonguss in its redirecting abilities, and has had fame with mold breaker excadrill
  6. Meowmeow

    Meowmeow selfproclaimed guru

    Togekiss is an awesome Pokemon. The main problem with Togekiss is its speed. Base 80 is in the no-man's-land of being too fast for Trick Room and too slow for non-Trick Room. Thankfully, Togekiss has Paralysis in Thunder Wave and Body Slam. Combined with Serene Grace and Air Slash, Togekiss can become very frustrating. Togekiss can also forgo the ParaFlinch tactic and take on a more direct offensive role with a Choice item or Nasty Plot. In Nasty Plot, Togekiss can go for a bulky set, showing off its impressive defensive stats combined with Roost, or pure offensive. Togekiss is a very versatile Pokemon that can perform support roles and offensive roles.
    However, Togekiss has a big problem. I always favor specialization. Do one task and do it better than everyone else instead of be able to do anything pretty well. Togekiss, while better at being a multi-tool than others like Clefable and Smeargle (sort of), whatever Togekiss can do, something else can do it better. In ParaFlinch, Jirachi is superior. In Nasty Plot, Porygon-Z, Azelf, and Thundurus-T are better. Togekiss may be the best Swiss Army knife, but consider your alternative options.

    Classic ParaFlinch
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 HP and Special Defense, 4 defense
    @: Leftovers

    Thunder Wave/Body Slam
    Air Slash
    Aura Sphere/Flamethrower/Nasty Plot

    Everyone knows about this set. Paralyze and Air Slash away.

    Offensive Nasty Plot
    Nature: Timid/Modest
    EVs: 252 Special Attack and Speed, 4 HP
    @: Life Orb

    Nasty Plot
    Air Slash
    Aura Sphere/Fire Blast/Flamethrower
    Hyper Voice/Roost

    We all know the goal of offensive Nasty Plot. I feel no need to explain.

    Bulky Nasty Plot
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 252 HP and Speed, 4 Special Attack
    @: Life Orb

    Nasty Plot
    Air Slash
    Aura Sphere/Heal Bell

    We all know the idea behind bulky boosting sets as well. I don't need to explain this one.
  7. Melonhead215

    Melonhead215 "That one guy"

    Togekiss is one of my favorites!
    Overview: Togekiss manages to stand out from the myriad of Normal/Flying types with it's 2 useful abilities and great special stats. One look at Serene Grace and you can see what Togekiss is meant to do: Paraflinch.
    Air Slash is seemingly almost made for Togekiss, as it runs off Togekiss's beastly 120 special attack, STAB, AND a 60% chance to flinch. Not bad! Togekiss also has access to Thunder Wave, so uh, yeah. It's probably the best Paraflincher in the game outside of Jirachi.
    Defenses of 85/95/115 are very good, and make Togekiss one of the best Normal/Flying walls in the game.

    Toge party
    Togekiss @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace Nature:Calm
    252 HP/ 252 SpD/ 4 SpA
    - Air Slash
    - Roost/Wish
    - Thunder Wave
    - Flamethrower/Flamethrower/Aura Sphere

    Kind of an obligatory Paraflinch set that's probably already been done, you can annoy the **** out of opponents with the combination of Thunder Wave and Air Slash. Air Slash provides arguably Togekiss's best attacking option and combos great with a leading Thunder Wave to cripple your opponents. Togekiss also is very bulky, and can extend it's longevity with Roost or Wish, picking between instant and healing teammates as an option.
    With a amazing moveset, Togekiss runs into 4 move syndrome often, but you really are going to want something that can counter Steels and Ices, so a Fire type move or Aura Sphere fit perfectly.

    Togekiss @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Serene Grace Nature: Modest
    252 HP/ 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    - Air Slash
    - Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Aura Sphere
    - Psyshock
    - Hyper Beam/Hyper Voice

    Togekiss also has the option to go full power with Choice Specs and 120 Special Attack. Serene Grace is always a nice ability to have, and fits nicely with Special attacks such as Flamethrower. Air Slash probably won't get much flinch in due to Togekiss's subpar speed but it's still it's best Flying STAB option. Flamethrower is for burning stuff and countering Ices and Steels, Aura Sphere will also buy Rock coverage at the expense of burns and power. Psyshock is one of my favorite moves in the game and is great for trolling Special Walls like Blissey, so it's probably a must.
    The last move is a bit up in the air, and you can choose anything really, but for raw normal coverage Hyper Voice isn't a bad option. Hyper Beam is also an option for just vaporizing something.

    Other options: Super Luck is a pretty nice combo with a razor claw and Air Cutter, allowing for some serious crit hax. Togekiss has one of the best movepools in the game with almost unlimited type coverage outside of hidden power and great support moves. Heck, it might even have a physical option with Hustle and a choice band (it's got a good Physical Movepool as well) Uproar is surprisingly strong on Togekiss, with 90 Special STAB that also kills resters, but it's not great due to it locking you into the move.

    Counters: Togekiss is a bit hard to counter due to Paraflinch and Bulkyness, but ground types (and Electric types in gen 6) will have the best bet being immune to Thunder Wave. Specifics would probably be Mamoswine and Garchomp.
    Togetic probably deserves a small mention due to it's somewhat bulky stats and the fact that it can pull off Eviolite.

    Togetic @ Eviolite
    Ability: N/A (Seriously, it doesn't matter lol) Nature: Calm
    4 HP/ 252 Def/252 SpD
    - Thunder Wave
    - Seismic Toss
    - Light Screen
    - Roost/Wish

    Pretty much a wally set, it can be a bit interesting for a Special Wall. Thunder Wave is for Paralyzing, Seismic toss is a damage option, Light Screen for more Defense and your choice for a healing move.
    Maybe not the most viable set out there, but the point is Togetic is viable in the lower end tiers.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  8. sbktdreed

    sbktdreed Veteran Trainer

    Super Luck/Serene Grace w/ Scope Lens
    Modest w/ 252 Sp Attack, 252 Speed, 6 Sp Defense/Defense
    Hyper Voice/Roost/Nasty Plot
    Air Slash
    Aura Sphere
    Ancient Power

    High Sp Defense and Attack with Rock/Ice/Electric-type moves like Swampert, Rock Slide Bronzong, Dusknoir, Rock Tomb Spiritomb, Druddigon, or Muk.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  9. Black Murder Heavangelon

    Black Murder Heavangelon Ow! Ow! Harder! Ow!

    Sassy Nature
    Serene Grace
    252 HP/252 Sp.Def/4 Def
    -Follow Me
    -Heal Bell


    As it is a Doubles set, it revolves entirely around it's ability to support its teammates, especially in a trick room. Roost is for that beat all cure all, and removes Togetic's Flying Weaknesses in exchange for a Fighting weakness. Follow Me is the selling point of Togetic in Doubles, distracting opponents from KOs and status ailments (it used to redirect Fake Out until it was buffed to sharing the same priority as Follow Me). Heal Bell is more than just global curing; a teammate can use Rest and then be followed by Togetic's Heal Bell to cure it instantly. An alternate scenario is that a sleeping Partner uses Trick Room, which has -7 priority, meaning Togetic's Heal Bell will be heard before the partner can use it. Lastly, Twister is Togetic's sole attacking move that utilizes Serene Grace. You thought that getting ParaFlinchHax'd was annoying, Twister has a 40% chance of causing both of your opponents to flinch, giving your team the time it needs.

    The set itself can be tweaked for nonTrick Room teams, like switching Twister for Rest and Serene Grace for Natural Cure. However, Togetic's usefulness wanes outside of Doubles, even with the huge boost given by Eviolite. It's Sp.Def is incredible, though, and exceeds Mantine's max Sp.Def stat.
    Miror likes this.
  10. GirlsILikeThem

    GirlsILikeThem Well-Known Member

    Togekiss Adamant nature, 252 Speed EV's 252 HP

    Sweet Kiss
    Sky Attack
    Ice Beam

    Also, referring to last week's POTW, I would think Fairy-type Pokemon would be more useful against Altaria, if Altaria's main power is Dragon-type moves.
  11. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Togekiss shouldn't use an Adamant nature, ever. Base 50 attack is horrid to the point where there's no sense in boosting it, especially if you have to compromise its great base 120 special attack to do it. Metronome is too unreliable, and Sky Attack may very well be one of the worst attacks in the game, given the charge-up turn gives the opponent a free turn to do anything and everything.
  12. jireh the provider

    jireh the provider Video Game Designer

    When angels fly...

    Oh togekiss. I truly call you as the most adorable of all Flying type pokemon. Not only are you so peaceful and loveable to the girls, approachable for most players, and very Kawaii cutie. But you are so viable as a cutemon. Too bad Smogon chose Porygon 2 and Azumarill as their top 2 cutemons in UU over you.

    Anyways, onto her traits in the metagame. If you want to have this angel saving you from the cruelty of Pokemon that is called the Metagame, know this. From my experience, she is a Jack of all traits pokemon (expect that her Physical attack is lackluster) like Flygon and Houndoom. But notably, she is a decent offensive sweeper whenever needed. Overall, since she's a loving guardian to her trainer, she excels on being a cleric and supporting her comrades. They are the most heartwarming of all pokemon guardians that you could ever have. Personally, she should be working on a hospital instead of the battlefield.

    Checks and Counters:

    Since most of you have posted her movesets, I'll go with the pokemon that gives her trouble / fear: (Bolded ones are the key words since I'll be creative on this post)

    Undefiable Deities named Zapdos and Raikou: Arceus warns the Togekiss race that when they are spotted by either of these two, don't mess with them head on lest their lives get short by their High Special Electric attacks like Thunderbolt or Volt Switch.

    Rhyperior the Stone Giant: Any togekiss know that the moment it summons Stealth Rock, defeating this beast would be harder if one does not have Energy Ball or Aura Sphere on their arsenal. Any unfortunate togekiss that got their wings clipped by either the Hazard rocks, or worse Stone Edge or Rock Slide, their deaths can come in two ways. If it's male, Rhyperior will eat them alive starting from the chest and heart. If it's female, it will violate its flower until it dies out of blood loss from its clipped wings before eating them.

    Chandelure the Soul Destroyer: No matter how well armed Togekiss can be, she knows that Chandy's monstrous special attack melts through her bulk with just fire attacks from the Soul Destroyer. Fire Blast is notably her enemy's favorite move. Thus, she fights these malicious beings with utmost caution with her Air Slash Hax combo.

    Bronzong the Caller of Events: Not really a nemesis for her kind. But they are nomads that side with no one. And when a Bronzong joins evil, she knows that these beings are never easy to pierce no matter how hard she hits. Thunder waving one will only make its Gyro Ball hurt her more. Bronzongs with Trick Room could disrupt her with a possible Explosion. Even if she has Fire attacks for it, Bronzongs with Heat Proof and Rain Dance would make it even more difficult to beat. They are also notorious from their Dual Screens technique which highly synergizes with their typing. Thus, Haxing it with Air slash is the least she could do to it, and hope that it doesn't retaliate back. Like Rhyperior, they use stealth rocks as well.

    Abomasnow, the President of America (not really): using the funds he got from the real life President Barrack Obama, with the power to Spam 100% accurate Blizzards, one could not stay too long against him if she doesn't have Flamethrower or Fire Blast on her side. But what she may fear is that he has Ice Shard to finish her off if she tries to make a getaway. If he brings his fellow Hail Team Buddies, then she fears the Hail President with respectable reasons.

    Weavile the Rogue: No matter how hard she tries to slow this rogue down with thunder wave, the rogue's high physical attack truly adds the strength of his Priority Ice Shard attack cleaning her wings of easily. If Weavile ambushes togekiss, her life gets cut short by an Ice Punch when it's powered up by Swords dance or Life Orb. Unlike Rhyerior, he Taunt's togekiss to be aggressive against it, leaving her exposed to his speedy attacks. Any Togekiss nearly killed by this Weavile will be tormented before he feasts on their bodies; bonus evil points when he violates a female togekiss before eating her white body for winter season. But her Aura Sphere one shots this Rogue when timed right.

    Victini the Nuclear Fire Paladin: being her ally for most of the time, she knew that his V-create is too much for her to endure no matter how Physically bulky she invests. Under Kyurem, Zekrom and Reshiram's training, she never wants to try taking a Bolt Strike head on. but what she highly respects about him is that he also fight with Special Attacks like her: Blue Flare and Glaciate are tricks that he knows how to use thanks to Victory Star increasing the accuracy of his moves even more. Mixed Attacking Versatility is his motif on rare occasions.
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  13. grantholomew

    grantholomew accually is dolan

    Togekiss is one of my favorite Pokémon.
    Nasty Plot Togekiss
    Togekiss @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spd
    Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Air Slash
    - Aura Sphere
    - Nasty Plot
    - Roost
    This set has worked really well for me. As long as you get a Nasty Plot in you should be golden.
  14. [​IMG]

    It shares many blessings with people who respect one another's rights and avoid needless strife.

    Togekiss @ Leftovers
    Calm - Serene Grace
    248 HP / 216 SpD / 44 Spe
    ~Air Slash
    ~Heal Bell / Thunder Wave
    ~Nasty Plot
  15. Mestorn

    Mestorn Wandering Battler

    Nice job with the counters, though I would not call most of these cold counters: Togekiss has a wide enough moveset that the appropriate coverage moves (or setup time) can bury them into the ground.

    To summarize: If Togekiss lacks Aura Sphere, Rhyperior and Ice types walk all over it. If togekiss lacks Flamethrower, steel types like Bronzong and ice types can stop the peacekeeper. If Togekiss lacks Shadow Ball, Chandelure and Victini turn Togekiss into Icarus. I should note that with a nasty plot under its belt and an appropriate neutral move Togekiss can even muscle through things that would otherwise wall it. Also, Thunderwave screws everything mentioned save Zapdos, Raikou, Abomasnow, and Bronzong.

    Zapdos and Raikou are the only true cold counters listed; easily capable of frying Togekiss, bulky enough to take a hit, handily outspeeding it and immune to Thunderwave.
    Miror likes this.
  16. Togeyosh

    Togeyosh New Member

    I feel really silly here. Joining this forum just so I could wheigh in my two cents on this one discussion. I was starting to think we'd never do a discussion on the toge-line of pokemon, but here we are at the last minute just before the next generation begins! I've been waiting for years to see what this would be like!

    Togetic is my favorite pokemon of all! I want to discuss a few more possible strategies it can pull off that haven't been discussed in detail yet before this thread is closed.

    Since Togetic gets the advantage of Eviolite, it is bulkier than togekiss and is therefore more defense oriented. Heavangelon discussed an amazing strategy for using the little happiness pokemon's defensive abilities to support its allies in doubles earlier. I'm no good at that kind of thing... But I can talk about a few moves it can utilize to its advantage. Keep in mind that I am keeping single battles in mind while I talk here.

    Baton Pass! Talk to just about anyone regarding using togetic in the meta-game instead of togekiss and they'll all probably say the same thing: give it this move for sure! Passing buffs to other pokemon is one of the best things, if not THE best thing that a togetic can do! So what buffs can this adorable little bird acquire and pass? Well, there are at least three it can utilize...

    Nasty Plot! That innocent angelic face is a facade! Give it a chance and togetic will very quickly have one of its friends overwhelm you with a +6 special attack! Again, a lot of people are going to recomend this one. Watch out for taunt or roar; that will ruin your strategy instantly! We talked about this a little already with Togekiss, but Kiss is more likely to use this move for its own amazing attacks. Either way, you can only acquire it through breeding.

    Bulk Up! Not as favored as Nasty Plot, probably because it doesn't boost a stat by 2 in a single turn. It DOES boost both attack and special attack at the same time, so if you have a team of both physical and special attackers, then maybe you can make use of it?

    Ancient Power! My favorite strategy! This one is a bit tricky to pull off though... You can only use it 8 times with PP Max and even with serene grace its secondary effect still has only a 1/5 chance of activating. Makes no mistake, this move is a gamble. But high risk leads to high reward. Boosting ALL your stats in one turn alone already makes Togetic far more formidable, especially if he can pull it off multiple times in a single battle. And then he can pass those buffs if he's in trouble, keeping the pressure on! Imagine passing this effect to a pokemon with cosmic power...! While it's not as handy as a sword-dancer (you may want to switch out if you see one...), I say don't be quick to overlook this move.

    Silver Wind and Ominous Wind! They have the exact same effects as ancient power, but are bug and ghost types respectively. They're not as useful as the Ancient varient, which togetic learns naturally from level up. You can try them too if you want. Using two or all three of these varients may be a little TOO risky though. Gotta have some variety, am I right?

    Wish! A favorite move of mine, but it's not as handy since you can't recover right away. But you CAN heal a tired ally with this move. That can be helpful in its own right. So what do you prefer? Keeping togetic in the field with roost? Or sacrificing it's ability to battle for the sake of another pokemon? Both choices are good for different reasons, especially since togetic is likely to take a hit with its defensive boots...

    Water Pulse! I feel like I'm giving away a secret of mine here... No matter! Are you raising your togetic or togekiss in gens 3 or 4? Then you're in luck! You can find TM03 in those generations. This is your chance to teach your kindness-loving bird water pulse! It can hit any pokemon (excluding Shedninja). It has a decent base power of 60. And best of all, thanks to Serene Grace, it has a good 40% chance of confusing your foe rather than the undependable 20% chance it normally has!! This is still a bit risky, of course, but it can still work in your favor. Think of it: that tiny little bird is up against a dreaded stealth rocker, like rhyperior. It attacks the fearsome opponent for both super-effective damage and turns that high attack power against it... It's awesome!!

    Tri-Attack! After going through who-knows-what-kind-of-unspeakable-hell in the dark labs of Cipher, a rescued togepi defies all odds alongside several other shadow pokemon... And is rewarded handsomely for enduring such difficult trials head on and oppening the door to it's heart once again!! Tri-attack can ONLY be learned by the purified togepi in Pokemon XD. If you have the means to acquire and then transfer this pokemon from the GameCube to GBA to DS gen 4 to DS gen 5 and now to the 3DS, then you have a great power at your disposal! Its 80 attack power gets boosted through STAB, becoming 120, and it has a 40% chance of burning, parylizing, or freezing! The fact that you don't get to decide which effect is applied may be a bit troubling, but it's still worth checking out if you have the means to do so! Kiss may be better at using this than Tic since its more offense oriented... But I bet both can make pretty good use of it all the same!

    It's ironic when you think about it. Togekiss is said to dislike strife, but it is far more likely to fight than support in battle. Meanwhile, Togetic is more likely to stay true to its defense and supportive rolls... But I'm probably getting ahead of myself. Pokemon battles aren't exactly "strifes" after all. Anyways, that's all I've got off the top of my head. Think carefully as you mix and match your moves. The toge-family pokemon are capable of all kinds of neat tricks and tactics, so it could take time and effort to figure out what movesets are right for you. But if you can figure it out, I think you'll be very happy that you took the time to raise such a cute little pokemon to become so dependable... Not only to you, but to it's fellow pokemon friends as well!
  17. pokefan2631

    pokefan2631 Creatorcraft Admin


    togekiss:It is a huge part of my team and i win a lot with this set:Direct hit!air slashthunder waveaura sphereextreme speeditem:scope lensability:super luckI works for me but,i dont know if it'll work for you
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