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Community POTW #145

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Jul 31, 2016.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

    Sorry for the delay. The forum server was wonko

    This week, we continue the Mythical months with Manaphy, since we did Arceus this year.

    Also, Phione if you want

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Go nuts

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/490.shtml
     
  2. Creyk

    Creyk Well-Known Member

    Phione is probably the worst "legendary" pokemon ever made. I mean Magikarp and Sunkern are weak but at least they are cute. This thing has no redeeming qualities other than it makes cute wonder trade egg gifts since it can be bred. Still, we gotta make do with what we have here. This set could be sort of useful sometimes, although you should never use the 80/80/80 version when the 100/100/100 one is available.

    Ice Beam
    Rest
    Toxic
    Rain Dance
    It's hydration ability makes this work, but Manaphy does it so much better.

    Manaphy: now this thing is good, because of it's access to tail glow. It can sweep if it has time to set up.
    Tail Glow
    Scald
    Ice Beam
    Rest (if you give it rain support) / Protect / Hidden Power for extra offensive presence
     
  3. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Yeah, definitely a no-go on that final moveslot. Protect does nothing for it, and it's more likely to carry Rain Dance to prevent Toxic-stalling or a stray Thunder Wave, given the loss of infinite rain makes Rest-Hydration unreliable if you're relying on Team Support. There are sets that utilize both Rest and Rain Dance along with Calm Mind to function similarly to Crocune, but using just Rest isn't really a thing. On the note of coverage, Manaphy actually has pretty good coverage moves to the extent where it doesn't usually need to resort to Hidden Power, with one notably exception. Most notably, it packs Psychic to deal with a would-be nemesis in Mega Venusaur, and Energy Ball to deal with opposing Water types. As for that notable exception I mentioned, that would be utilizing Hidden Power Fire to fry Ferrothorn.
     
  4. Neosonic97

    Neosonic97 Fastest thing Alive

    I can't really give a set for Phione (Considering Phione is just NOT WORTH USING), but for Manaphy, here are some sets:

    The typical set: Offensive Manaphy.
    Manaphy@Life Orb
    Ability: Hydration (The only choice)
    Tail Glow
    Ice Beam
    Scald
    Filler Slot: Hidden Power Fire, Psychic, Energy Ball, Rain Dance.
    This set is the most common set you'll see if you face a Manaphy.
    Tail Glow is what makes Manaphy usable as an offensive 'mon. Getting a +3 Boost to Special Attack in a single turn is amazing, turning Manaphy's base 100 Special Attack from underwhelming to terrifying. With a maxed Special Attack stat, this takes Manaphy's SpA up to a whopping 820. Needless to say, Scald is going to hurt. Scald is the obvious best choice for STAB, with perfect accuracy, decent power and a burn chance is always nice.
    Ice Beam is mandatory coverage for a lot of Grass-types who would otherwise love to come in on Manaphy, though it also helps with those pesky Dragons, plus some flying-types.
    Lastly, there are four main options for a filler slot here. Psychic deals with Mega Venusaur who would otherwise be Manaphy's worst nightmare, as well as defensive Tentacruel. Energy Ball deals with other water-types, though especially Unaware Quagsire who loves to ruin Manaphy's day. Hidden Power Fire is there to reduce those annoying Ferrothorns to a pile of ashes. Lastly, Rain Dance can be used to trigger Hydration, to deal with pesky status ailments. Speaking of Hydration, it's Manaphy's only ability choice, but it's a decent ability, especially since it makes things like Toxic, Thunder Wave and Will-O-Wisp more manageable. Energy Ball and Psyhcic also stop Volcanion from coming in and doing its best Gandalf impression (YOU SHALL NOT PASS!) by completely stonewalling Manaphy.
    Nature: Modest for extra firepower, or Timid for extra speed.
    EVs: Manaphy needs as much firepower as it can get for an offensive set, so 252 Special Attack EVs are a must. From there, you can be a bit more flexible in your EV builds, depending on what you want Manaphy to outspeed. But typically you should go for 252 Spd and 4 Def, to ensure you speed tie or outspeed key threats, such as Naive Kyurem-B, who would otherwise nuke Manaphy with Fusion Bolt.

    There's also this set:

    Cronaphy
    Manaphy@Leftovers
    Ability: Hydration
    Nature: Bold (To deal with Physical Attacks slightly better).
    Calm Mind
    Rain Dance
    Rest
    Scald
    You may notice that this set looks quite similar to Crocune, and that's because it IS similar to Crocune, except less bulky but has greater offensive presence. Naturally, Calm Mind is the crux of this set, boosting Manaphy's Special Attack up, albeit slower than Tail Glow, but it ALSO makes Manaphy bulkier. Given Manaphy's 100/100/100 bulk, not too shabby. Also of note is that Phione can also use this set, but it's inferior due to worse stats. But I digress, on with the set. You're not gonna see this one as often as Tail Glow Manaphy, but it is viable.
    Rain Dance and Rest go very well together, granting Manaphy free usage of Rest without skipping turns so long as the Rain is up and it still has Hydration. Rain Dance also boosts this set's only offensive move.
    That move being Scald, for obvious reasons. It has a good burn chance helping to deal with Manaphy's lower Defense stat, and it's decently powerful.
    EVs are your typical Crocune fare: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD.
    Just of note: this Manaphy set requires any Volcanion or other Water Absorb-wielding Pokemon gone before it can attempt to sweep, otherwise it'll get walled.

    There are also some other options Manaphy can go into:
    Acid Armor can be used to raise Manaphy's physical bulk, however, a physically defensive set is terrible in comparison to the Crocune-esque set.
    Skill Swap can really mess up foes such as Mega Kangaskhan or Mega Mawile if they get hit on the Switch-in. It can also be used in conjunction with Regigigas or Slaking in Doubles and Triples.
    Heart Swap is Manaphy's signature move, and while it's not Roar of Time levels bad, it's still pretty bad, although it does allow Manaphy to put a stop to Xerneas in the higher tiers by Heart swapping its Geomancy, if it uses Heart Swap the same turn Geomancy comes out. Most of the time, though, it's not worth it. You're better off looking elsewhere.
    Heal Bell can allow Manaphy to cure its teammate's status conditions, but this has no place on any of the sets, as Manaphy has serious 4-moveslot syndrome.
    You could run Physical Moves like Waterfall, U-Turn or Knock Off... I guess? It's vastly inferior to the Special Set due to Tail Glow, but you could still try it if you really wanted to.
    Dazzling Gleam and Shadow Ball serve as alternatives to Ice Beam and Psychic if you want more neutral coverage, but you lose the ability to hit a lot of threats super effectively. In the end, not quite worth it. I guess Shadow Ball hits Empoleon neutrally?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2016
  5. Smokin' weedle

    Smokin' weedle Well-Known Member

    I love manaphy. Not sure why, but it might have something to do with the fact that I sort of live underwater, if it wasn't for a heap of dirt. Aside from that i like it becouse it's pretty strong. 100 in all stats allows you to make any sort of fighter out of it. One of my favorite sets is for double battles, but with a few changes it works for single battles as well:

    Manaphy
    Item: leftovers
    Nature: modest
    Ability: hydratation
    - scald/waterpulse
    - tail glow
    - heart swap/ rain dance/aqua ring
    - psychic/energy ball/signal beam/blizzard
    252 speed/ 252 sp. attack/ 4 hp

    Tail glow boosts the special attack, wich is very nice in a double battle with another special attacker, when you can use heart swap when low on health. Besides that heart swap should not be used, in single battle it's useless. When you know your facing an opponent who goes for status conditions, you can use rain dance, in any other case aqua ring is nice for a bit of restoration. Scald and water pulse are both STAB moves, where scald causes burns, and water pulse causes confusion. If you use signal beam, scald is your best pick, considering signal beam has a confusion chance as well. Psychic and energy ball will work as good at all time. Blizzard is great in double battles, damaging all opponents. If you want to go for accuracy ice beam is your better choice. Manaphy really suffers from the max 4 moves, becouse it really could use more moves

    (P.s. Generally 145 comes after 144, but thats a detail)
     
  6. jireh the provider

    jireh the provider Video Game Designer

    I do not get as to what the Crocune word means (I thought it meant Crobat + Suicune). Please clarify me.

    But honestly, being one of my favorite legendaries and an advocate of the cute mythical Pokemon, it usually runs 3 sets that all of us here can easily say in detail. Either you:

    a. Go nuke things with one Tail Glow and three attacks of your choice.
    b. Build up power and bulk wuth Calm Mind, then attack.
    c. Be adorably annoying and tank up with the chance of setting up rainy weather.

    By the way, Joey (Pokeaim) drafted Manaphy as his captain in the ongoing UCL Season 2. But I'm not sure of there is a difference on using Manaphy in drafted leagues vs Non-drafted leagues.

    Here i a title to use:

    Princess Tear Drops
     
  7. Yellow De Viridian Grove

    Yellow De Viridian Grove Well-Known Member

    CroCune refers to a popular Suicune set of Calm Mind/Rest/Sleep Talk/Scald (or Surf when it was first used) which basically made Suicune unkillable in certain situations. It became really popular and other Pokemon started to be able to run it, but Cune and maybe MegaBro are the best users. Manaphy switches out the randomness of Sleep Talk for instant heal and extra damage Rain Dance provides.
     
  8. FYI, CroCune was named after the Smogon user Cromat, who invented the original set back during the ADV days.
     
  9. Neosonic97

    Neosonic97 Fastest thing Alive

    I suppose I should list the pros and cons of Manaphy, as I didn't already in my set post:

    +Manaphy's stats are well-rounded, boasting the old 100 across the board spread that is the typical fare for this kind of Mythical Pokemon.
    +Has access to an excellent setup move in Tail Glow, boosting its Special Attack to absurd levels very fast. Give Manaphy a chance to set up and it will destroy you.
    +Hydration makes Manaphy flat-out immune to status in the rain. It also allows instant Rests! This, naturally, given its nature as a set-up sweeper, is very good.
    +Base 100 Speed is pretty good as a speed tier.
    +It's adorable!

    -While its stats are well-rounded, Manaphy's stats are kind of lackluster in the face of the power creep.
    -Loss of infinite rain hinders Manaphy greatly from its glory days in Gen V.
    -It's a member of the Bad Signature Move club: Heart Swap isn't very good.
    -HEAVILY suffers from 4-moveslot Syndrome. Something will always wall Manaphy regardless of the standard set's filler move (Most notably Volcanion, Tentacruel, Mega Venusaur or Ferrothorn).
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2016
  10. Karxrida

    Karxrida Lost in the Waves

    I don't think Life Orb is even a thing on Manaphy. It runs Leftovers since it's setting up Tail Glow and usually taking a hit while doing so, plus LO is overkill because, again, Tail Glow.

    Again again, Tail Glow. Don't really need a super amazing Special Attack stat when you're getting +3 in one turn.

    It's still a pretty fearsome wallbreaker without it, plus not being banned anymore is cool. This isn't really a negative trait since it's still really good without permarain and mono-attacking Hydrarest is still a legit set (even if it's not as good as standard Tail Glow + 3 Attacks).
     
  11. jireh the provider

    jireh the provider Video Game Designer

    This FYI must be added to if possible for strategy origins is neat to have. Oh Smogon. They are such an influence where a Smogon Memer's mane is almost unheard off save for the name if his / her iconic Suicune set.

    Like, couldn't they had just called it Cromat's Suicune Set?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2016
  12. 420

    420 Master Trainer

    The farer and the drifter.

    Manaphy

    Moves:
    - Tail Glow
    - Rain Dance
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam

    Item: Leftovers

    Ability: Hydration

    EVs and Nature:
    4 Defense - 252 Sp. Attack - 252 Speed
    Timid Nature

    Manaphy is one out of only two Pokémon with access to Tail Glow. An amazing move which boosts it's Sp. Attack with three whole stages in a single go. Rain Dance activates Hydration and heals Manaphy of any status condition, as well as doubling the power of Scald. Scald is Manapy's main STAB attack which deals serious damage after a Tail Glow and has a good chance to OHKO any opponent that doesn't resist it. It also has a 30% chance to inflict a burn status, which is always nice. The last slot goes to Ice Beam which deals a super effective blow to Grass types and neutral damage to Electric types.


    Phione

    Moves:
    - Rain Dance
    - Rest
    - Scald
    - Toxic

    Item: Damp Rock

    Ability: Hydration

    Evs and Nature:
    4 Defense - 252 Sp. Defense - 252 Speed
    Timid Nature

    Phione is totally outclassed by Manaphy and a poor choice in a battle. It's stats are way worse than Manaphy and it lacks access to any moves that could give it a well needed boost. Rain Dance activates Hydration and heals Phione for any status conditions. Combined with Rest, this gives Phione a quick and reliable way to heal itself from any damage taken. Scald is Phione's STAB attack with a chance to inflict a burn status and also prevents it from being crippled by Taunt. Since Phione's offensive stats aren't to much to brag about, the last slot goes to Toxic, which is used to wear down an opponent.
     
  13. EKZ1505

    EKZ1505 VGC Master

    Solid sets, but just be aware that rain only boosts the power of water-type moves like Scald by 1.5, not double. Scald already hits electric types for neutral damage too (and will get the STAB and potential rain boosts), but Ice Beam is good for most coverage options otherwise.
     
  14. 420

    420 Master Trainer

    You sir are correct. I was actually sure that rain would double the damage instead of 1.5 times boost, but after checking I see that I was wrong. And neutral damage on electric types? I actually knew that. Need to check my post twice next time. x)
     
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