Community POTW #151

[Divine Retribution]

You have to look at the bigger picture. Psyshock with Analytic and Stealth Rock down will do 47 - 53.5% to 252/252+ Chansey and 50.3 - 57.5% to 4/252+ variants. Now Chansey is under a lot of pressure. If it intended to come in and set Stealth Rock, use Heal Bell, or poison/paralyze something, it's going to be taking a huge risk. Starmie can now 2HKO with Psyshock if it doesn't heal up immediately, and the Starmie user gets a free switch to whatever other offensive threat he/she wants if it does heal. Not only that, but a second Psyshock added onto the earlier calculations makes it 73.5 - 85% vs 252/252+ sets and 79.4 - 92% vs 4/252+ sets. Just a little prior damage and Chansey can't even switch consistently into Starmie. It's the basic concept behind Charizard Y + Tyranitar/Bisharp cores. Charizard Y struggles mightily to get past Chansey on its own, but everyone knows that Chansey is still far from a guaranteed answer to Charizard Y because all it takes is one Pursuit (and maybe a little Stealth Rock damage to boot) for it to no longer be a counter.

On a side note, Blissey can run an ADV-esque CM set on certain bulky teams that need a better answer to TG + RD Manaphy, but that set is pretty niche and rarely used anyway.

I'm sorry, but did you just compare Starmie, something with a rather mediocre base 100 Sp. Atk, to Mega Charizard Y, something with 159 base Sp. Atk and Drought?

No, there's a massive difference between the two, and what you've just said confirms that, although maybe you don't realize that. Not only does Chansey need to have some prior damage on it, but Stealth Rock needs to be up, you need to predict the switch and use Psyshock (which has rather poor coverage and is easier to switch other threats into than Charizard's spammable Drought boosted Fire Blasts), and you need two consecutive high rolls in order to beat it. If those stars all line up, then yes, you can get past Chansey, but packing Psyshock for that alone is a waste of a moveslot.

As I already said, Psyshock on Starmie is not primarily for Chansey. It allows him to beat Calm Mind Keldeo, who can 1v1 him otherwise, and also allows him to OHKO Gengar who try to spinblock him and deal solid damage to Mega Venusaur, who fears nothing else in his movepool. These all make Psyshock worthy of consideration, but I maintain to say that simply slapping Psyshock on your Starmie does not mean that your team no longer has issues with Chansey, and nothing you just said has convinced me otherwise.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

Chansey can also instead of healing, just opt to launch Thunder Wave once it's in. If it paralyses analytic Starmie, Starmie is crippled and Chansey can then heal up as it's faster than paralysed Starmie. Staying in is a huge risk for Starmie. Only if that second Psyshock crits it's going to be a possible KO, otherwise Starmie'll end up paralysed, and then Chansey is guaranteed to heal back up with Softboiled on the next turn, regardless of whether or not Starmie switches.

 

[jesusfreak94]

I'm sorry, but did you just compare Starmie, something with a rather mediocre base 100 Sp. Atk, to Mega Charizard Y, something with 159 base Sp. Atk and Drought?

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 187-222 (29.1 - 34.5%) -- 5.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 187-222 (26.5 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 160-190 (24.9 - 29.5%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 202-238 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO

Looks like a good comparison to me. What's the problem here?

No, there's a massive difference between the two, and what you've just said confirms that, although maybe you don't realize that. Not only does Chansey need to have some prior damage on it, but Stealth Rock needs to be up, you need to predict the switch and use Psyshock (which has rather poor coverage and is easier to switch other threats into than Charizard's spammable Drought boosted Fire Blasts), and you need two consecutive high rolls in order to beat it. If those stars all line up, then yes, you can get past Chansey, but packing Psyshock for that alone is a waste of a moveslot.

You're making a lot of irrelevant points here. Who cares that you have to predict with Psyshock? What does that have to do with Psyshock being strong enough to muscle past Chansey (which you called "silly")? No one is trying to say that Starmie is as powerful as Charizard Y or that Psyshock is as spammable as Fire Blast, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing that up. The point is that Charizard Y can muscle past Chansey with a little prior damage and/or Pursuit support, and by extension, Starmie can as well when its Psyshock is doing about as much damage.

As I already said, Psyshock on Starmie is not primarily for Chansey. It allows him to beat Calm Mind Keldeo, who can 1v1 him otherwise, and also allows him to OHKO Gengar who try to spinblock him and deal solid damage to Mega Venusaur, who fears nothing else in his movepool. These all make Psyshock worthy of consideration, but I maintain to say that simply slapping Psyshock on your Starmie does not mean that your team no longer has issues with Chansey, and nothing you just said has convinced me otherwise.

What? Who said that putting Psyshock means your team won't have any more issues with Chansey? Psyshock gives Starmie an option to pressure it, plain and simple. You need to stop talking theorymon and think about this in a real battle scenario. In practice, Chansey is not always going to be at full health. It's used to counter a lot of stuff. It's going to be taking hits, and without Leftovers, random passive damage is going to impact it a lot. The moment that it decides to do something other than heal during its one free turn, Starmie starts being able to pressure it with Psyshock. That is the difference between paper and practice, so no, it is not "silly" to suggest that Starmie can use Psyshock to get past Chansey.

But yes, Chansey is not the only reason you run Psyshock. It's just one of them. The things you mentioned (along with AV Tornadus-T, especially if you're not packing Ice Beam or Thunderbolt) are also reasons to run it.

 

[Karxrida]

(Psychic is legit btw since it hits some stuff like Rotom-W harder.)

Surprised nobody posted the Defensive set, and I'd do it myself but I'm on my phone.