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Community POTW #158

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by KillerDraco, Oct 30, 2016.

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  1. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Apologies for the delay. We have another event Pokemon being distributed for the month of November starting on Tuesday, and as a result, we will be covering them this week.

    [​IMG]

    It's Genesect, the mythical Bug/Steel Pokemon brought back from ancient times and modified by Team Plasma.

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/649.shtml

    Go nuts
     
  2. Neosonic97

    Neosonic97 Fastest thing Alive

    I haven't used Genesect much, but I can attest to the fact that it is a very powerful Pokemon, if the fact that people are always squabbling over it being booted to Ubers or not is anything to go by. In this case, it is an Uber right now, so we should post sets for that.

    Genesect only has one ability, but that one ability is the ever-powerful Download. A free CS boost to the offense correlating to the foe's weaker defense is always nice.

    Here's the good ol' Choice Scarf Set (that totally isn't ripped from Smogon or anything...):

    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Naive/Hasty Nature
    EVs: 248 Atk, 8 SpA, 252 Spe
    -U-Turn
    -Iron Head
    -Ice Beam/Extreme Speed
    -Explosion

    Genesect's main defining trait is its ability to gain momentum and apply pressure through powerful U-Turns, and naturally, this is the crux of said set. Iron Head serves as a secondary STAB, mainly to nail Mega Diancies and some Xerneas variants. Ice Beam allows it to hurt Primal Groudon and revenge kill certain Rayquaza sets, although it can use Extreme Speed as a priority of its own. While Genesect prefers a Naive nature, it MUST use Hasty on sets involving Extreme Speed due to legality. The final move is Explosion, which Genesect can use if it's on low HP or faced with a threat that it can't afford to switch out from or stay in on, and deal hefty damage. It also helps dealing with foes who want to remove hazards! And with Scarf, not much is gonna outspeed this technologically-enhanced predator.

    Other Options:
    Techno Blast falls into 'mediocre Signature Move' territory, much like Kyurem's Glaciate. On paper, Techno Blast sounds great. Base 120 power and perfect accuracy make it seem desirable, but it has to hold a Drive in order to actually USE the other types of Techno Blast. This is a problem, because Genesect really needs that item slot and can't afford to waste it on a drive, meaning it's stuck using Normal Techno Blast, which doesn't really hit anything Genesect can't already hit. Yeah, you're better off looking elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016
  3. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    It's worth noting that this applies to Extreme Speed, Shift Gear, and Blaze Kick. All three of these moves are only accessible by an event that is locked into a Hasty nature, so any set utilizing any of these moves without a Hasty nature is illegal.
     
  4. ampfire101

    ampfire101 Well-Known Member

    Adding to what Neosonic97 said about the mediocre signature move, its power isn't even boosted if you get an Attack boosting Download on your switch-in. I do like using Genesect as a lead, with Scarf, Download, and a mixed move pool, it can definitely hold its own in Ubers. Techno Blast is good in theory, with a high powered base 120 coverage attack, either Fire, Ice, Water, or Electric, but it already gets Ice Beam, Flamethrower, and Thunderbolt, among a ton of other coverage options which diminish the need for Techno Blast like Gunk Shot and Dark Pulse to hit stuff, yeah theres no need for Techno Blast
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  5. Aduro

    Aduro Mt.BtlMaster

    Game Freak was so cruel to Genesect, giving it 99 base speed and basically only including it in the same tournaments as all the Base 100 Mythical pokemon. It makes it tough to be sure that it can land a hit before Mew gets to use baton pass or Victini cooks it with V-Create. Not to mention the Smogon Ubers, +1 Mega Blaziken and +1Landorus can guarantee they will outspeed scarf genesect too.
    At least Hasty is a pretty good nature for Genesect, fast and somewhat frail with nice moves and stats for a mixed sweeper. Also, Genesect is still viable without event moves, unlike Victini which desperately needs moves which it only gets in some events. Scarf Genesect's best quality in ubers has always been its ability to outspeed and threaten fast, offensive psychic types like mega mewtwo Y, soul dew latios types offensive deoxys forms with U-Turn. If you can't get blaze kick or extreemespeed at least you can run zen headbutt to OHKO mega Gengar or aerial ace for blaziken.



    I'm with Amphire and Neosonic on techno blast.

    252 SpA Chill Drive Genesect Techno Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Multiscale Lugia: 72-85 (17.3 - 20.4%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 SpA Never-Melt Ice Genesect Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Multiscale Lugia: 65-77 (15.6 - 18.5%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 SpA Life Orb Genesect Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Multiscale Lugia: 70-83 (16.8 - 19.9%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Genesect does slightly more damage with a supereffective techno blast than it does with life orb and moves like ice beam, but I can't find any really significant cases where it makes the difference between a guaranteed OHKO and a 2HKO. In exchange for one coverage move, all of Genesect's other moves become significantly weaker, and it loses the chance of life orb STAB moves or a choice scarf. Not to mention that the moment your opponent sees a burn drive (for example) they'll know Genesect threatens their aegislash.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  6. Lord Fighting

    Lord Fighting Bank Ball Collector

    Genesect should only ever run scarf mixed sets since 99% it just spams U-turn the entire match from my experience. Maybe band if you're feeling creative as it is quite powerful but it's just short of a decent base speed leaves it outsped by several of ubers top players.

    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Download
    EVs: 252Atk / 4 Sp.Atk / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - U-turn
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Beam
    - Blaze Kick

    This set provides good all around coverage whilst also utilising STAB. Ice beam hits the plethora of dragons in the tier 1-2 KO'ing most of them, Iron head has nice coverage and hits things for good neutral damage as well as smashing xerneas. U-turn is self explanatory and blaze kick gives you the most useful remaining coverage hitting agei, mega mawile, scizor, ferrothorn, mega lucario, dialga and arceus steel quite hard.
     
  7. generic villager #5

    generic villager #5 Your ad here!

    Looking at Genesect's stats and movepool, at first glance you'd think this thing had potential to go physical, special, or mixed. Sadly, that turned out not to be the case; Genesect only really works as a predominantly physical attacker with some mixed capability. Here's the only special set I could dredge up (slightly modified, I think it was a rain-based set originally?), and it's mostly inferior to the usual set in every way:

    Techno Beat
    Genesect @ Chill Drive / Choice Scarf
    Ability: Download
    EVs/Nature: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe, Timid
    - Bug Buzz
    - Flash Cannon
    - Techno Blast (Ice) / Ice Beam
    - Thunder

    Well, here it is...and admittedly it's not much. This Genesect set really, really misses the utility that the physical versions get from U-Turn and the ability to score OHKOs with Explosion in bad situations. Sure, Bug Buzz is a little more powerful than U-Turn and hits through Substitute, and Flash Cannon still threatens Xerneas just as much as Iron Head, but it's just not the same. That said, it does have some remote usefulness; you get the always-useful Electric/Ice coverage here, and damage calcs show that the Techno Blast on this set will often get a 2HKO on anything that's weak to it, even if you miss out on the Download boost. Speaking of which, that's the real importance to this set; all those pokes that EV'd to avoid the Download boost in favor of physical Genesect have inadvertently harmed themselves. It should be noted that if you still want the speed, you can take Ice Beam over Techno Blast and get your Choice Scarf Boost, but you'll end up Choice-locked and with a weaker move at that.

    I dunno, this set seems pretty inferior to the usual set so I can't really recommend it over that one. It might have worked better on a rain team pre-ORAS to get 100% accurate Thunders and mitigated Fire-type moves, but that's not going to fly anymore with Primal Groudon around. I'd question whether this thing is even OO-worthy, but I thought I'd bring it up so we might have something to discuss.

    Edit: Turns out that this set does have one more thing going for it: in AG, this Techno Blast at +1 will just score a guaranteed OHKO on Mega Rayquaza, even through Delta Stream.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  8. Neosonic97

    Neosonic97 Fastest thing Alive

    Good luck having Genesect ALIVE to use Techno Blast on MRay, though, when MRay outspeeds and OHKOs without the Scarf, and Genesect cannot OHKO with the scarf:
    252+ Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Genesect: 286-337 (101 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Yeah, Dragon Ascent wastes Genesect. Techno Blast is just not worth using. Period. MAYBE if Genesect was a little bit faster (See: Base 115) then it would be worth using as a niche check to Mega Rayquaza, but otherwise, not a chance.
     
  9. generic villager #5

    generic villager #5 Your ad here!

    Well yes, that goes without saying. Genesect does outspeed standard Rayquaza, so realistically the only way this goes in Genesect's favor is if it's already at +1 prior to it Mega Evolving, or if you get a lucky double-switch. I'd never switch a Genesect into MRay anyway, you could put it at -2 but if it had V-Create you're still ultra-super-mega dead.
     
  10. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    Life Orb Ice Beam deals almost the same damage as Chill Drive Techno Blast (both are guaranteed OHKOs on Mega Rayquaza, assuming you somehow managed to hit it without getting OHKO'd first). There's literally no reason to ever use this move.

    If you want a special set, the classic Rock Polish set can still pose a threat to some variants of hyper offense in Ubers, but not really. It did so much better in OU, and I honestly feel like it's time to drop the bug out of Ubers. With the omnipresence of things like Talonflame and Heatran I don't feel like he would be particularly unhealthy or overcentralizing in OU anymore. I kind of hope he gets dropped in Gen 7, although we'll see. He does still have that potent combination of U-Turn, Download, and a huge arsenal of coverage moves that makes him very hard for offensive teams to handle.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016
  11. ampfire101

    ampfire101 Well-Known Member

    Dude if you wanna use Blaze Kick you gotta use Hasty because Blaze Kick is only available as a move on an event Genesect with a Hasty Nature, no other Nature is available for it. Also, use Flamethrower, not Blaze Kick! You mentioned that Mawile, Scizor, and Ferrothorn would be countered by it, but Flamethrower ignores Mawile's Intimidate before it Mega Evolves (and does more damage with a Download boost with Mawile's lower SpD), Mega Scizor and Mega Lucario have less SpD than defense, so more likely to OHKO with the Download boost, and even though you shouldn't rely on a Fire attack to reliably take out Dialga, even Dialga has less SpD, and Ferrothorn has slightly less SpD and you'll take Iron Barbs and potentially Rocky Helmet damage with Blaze kick. Also, with a Choice Scarf, you'll outspeed Steel Arceus (or all Arceus forms for that matter) and since most will run more physically defensive EVs, you'll get the Download boost for SpA, further boosting Flamethrower's power (there is a Calm Mind variant on Smogon discussions, but it runs more physical defensive EVs so Calm Mind would boost SpD, but it can't get the boost before Choice Scarf Genesect hits it with Flamethrower). Plus Flamethrower will let you use that Naive Nature since you're not forced to use Hasty. It also appears you have three physical attacks and one special on that Scarf set, but two and two would be better rounded I feel because if you get a SpA boost against something that resists Ice Beam like Scizor, then you can still use that boost before switching out by using Flamethrower. I think I've said about that, though.

    As for Rock Polish sets, that's actually a cool way to go, I forgot Genesect had that, but when put into practical use I'm not so sure. I am very heavily into VGC discussion, I don't know a ton about Smogon tiers so I can't say I've had experience with a Rock Polish set but from what I've read about it and stats I've analyzed, I can say that it seems more useful as a lead with Choice Scarf and U-Turn to help pick stuff off later. Rock Polish takes up a moveslot that could be used for offense as well as a turn to set that up, leaving a turn for opponents to hit you, and the stat boost goes away after you U-Turn out, plus Shift Gear is much better I feel with that extra attack boost. That's just me, it could maybe work with Life Orb for good damage I suppose idk. Lol anyone wanna piggyback on this? I don't have enough experience to say any of this with a lot of confidence.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016
  12. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    He specified a special set. Shift Gear should not be used on a full special set as the Attack boosts are useless (worse than useless if the opponent has a Foul Play user, or Genesect ends up confused somehow), and it forces him to run a Hasty nature instead of a more optimal Modest nature. That being said, Genesect shouldn't ever really use a full special set in Ubers, or any set other than the mixed Scarf set really. With a Scarf he makes a great check to Mewtwo, Darkrai, some Arceus forms, and some Xerneas builds as well as being able to revengekill a large portion of the metagame with enough prior damage thanks to Download.

    It's also interesting to note that Scarf Genesect outspeeds standard Rayquaza even after a Dragon Dance, but switching in on Rayquaza is obviously a risky prospect as V-Create utterly destroys Genesect (guaranteed OHKO on Occa Berry Genesect in the rain...) and a Life Orb Dragon Ascent is also an OHKO. Lum Berry variants have a very good chance to KO with the combination of Dragon Ascent and Extremespeed.

    It really depends on what set Ray is using and how good the player using Ray is at predicting. Genesect is not a reliable check to any form of Rayquaza but it does have the ability to revengekill it in a pinch.
     
  13. ampfire101

    ampfire101 Well-Known Member

    My error on the Rock Polish sets. One can run Rock Polish to speed tie with Geomancy Xerneas after its boost and perhaps kill with Iron Head with a Download Boost perhaps? I don't really know damage calcs on that because I don't know the common Xerneas sets for Ubers, though it can't be much different than VGC I'd imagine, as for Occa Berry in the rain, thats not a good idea in the slightest haha, the only weather you see in Ubers anymore are the Primals and V-Create would still kill. Scarf is still the best choice.
     
  14. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    Shift Gear would be better for a set like that. The Rock Polish set was a relic from the days before Genesect was banned from OU (and before he got access to Shift Gear through an event). There's not really a circumstance where it's going to be all that useful in Ubers, except against a weakened, frail HO team or something.

    Wasn't saying it was a good idea. Was only showing it to highlight the fact that Genesect literally never survives V-Create ever.
     
  15. ampfire101

    ampfire101 Well-Known Member

    I know u meant Occa Berry was a bad idea, you even said Genesect wouldn't even be able to survive if that was its held item and it was raining lol (not that rain would matter thanks to Air Lock), I was agreeing with you haha sorry for not clarifying. As for your first response to me, I guess I didn't even realize, my bad. That's why I say take any of my comments on anything that isn't VGC with a grain of salt haha
     
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