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Community POTW #16

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Apr 17, 2011.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

    Reno's busy writing the last one so here's the next one

    [​IMG]

    This week we'll be doing Toxicroak, the weird Poison Fighting Pokémon. Originally scheduled for last week, I switched it with Whimsicott so we didn't have two frogs in a row

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/454.shtml

    Toxicroak has always been an alright Pokémon, but with its new ability, some decent strategies can be employed. Go nuts!
     
  2. SomeoneIGuess

    SomeoneIGuess ?Hu Hsilaciryl

    Hmm...

    STALL!
    Toxicroak @ Black Sludge / Leftovers
    Ability: Dry Skin
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    -Substitute
    -Protect
    -Focus Punch
    -Toxic/Knock Off

    We've all seen this before. Use it in rain, Throw a sub on the switch, Focus Punch because sub punch is awesome. Protect + Sub = 1/8 HP recovery per 2 turns. Similar to Stallrein. Toxic Toxifies stuff. Unless you have Toxic spikes, then you can run Knock off.

    I will poison you!
    Toxicroak @ Black Sludge / Leftovers
    Ability: Poison Touch
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    -Poison Jab
    -Stone Edge/Substitute
    -Brick Break
    -Sucker Punch

    Poison Jab Poisons 50% of the time, with Poison touch (Or do I multiply...?)
    Substitute is fun, joy and laughter when Blissey/Other wall tries to status you...
    But Stone Edge is for more offense.
    Brick Break cuz Focus Punch + DW = Illegal
    Sucker Punch is for Ghosts.

    Can I really set up?
    Toxicroak @ Black Sludge / Leftovers / Life Orb / Expert Belt
    Ability: Dry Skin / Poison Touch
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    -Swords Dance
    -Focus Punch / Brick Break
    -Poison Jab / Substitute
    -Sucker Punch
    Swords dance is how you set up. Focus Punch is awesome with Substitute, still. Brick Break is if you're running Poison Touch or just hate Focus Punch.
    Poison Jab Breaks walls in the opposite way of Substitute
    Sucker Punch is for ghosts, again.

    Other Options: Nasty Plot, Special Moves, Ice Punch, Bounce, Thunder Punch, Sub-Salac, Endure-Salac, Fake Out, Cross Chop, Bullet Punch

    Toxicroak can use special moves to an OK extent, since it has Nasty Plot, but its a gimmick. Ice Punch for Salamence/Altaria, if you hate it, Bounce gets coverage with Fighting moves, and stalls for toxic damage and stuff. Thunderpunch for Gyarados/Swanna. Toxicroak can use Sub-Salac, but it's kinda frail and slow to swords dance first, and Endure-Salac is similar. Fake Out and Bullet Punch are other priority, the former is better on a lead toad. Cross Chop is an alternative to Brick Break on all the sets that use it, but the accuracy is shaky.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2011
  3. TheAwesomeOne

    TheAwesomeOne Well-Known Member

    ;454;Toxicroak@Life Orb
    Dry Skin
    Modest/Timid
    4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
    -Nasty Plot
    -Sludge Bomb
    -Vacuum Wave
    -Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse
    Typical Special Toxicraok. Nasty Plot+Life Orb+STAB=Ouch, and that is just Sludge Bomb. Vacuum Wave is for a quick kill, Shadow Ball and Dark Pulse have the same coverage, Dark Pulse hits harder.
     
  4. SomeoneIGuess

    SomeoneIGuess ?Hu Hsilaciryl

    You have Sludge Wave too, over Sludge Bomb for more Damage (5 BP more... Yeah not significant).
    Vaccum Wave isn't powerful enough to pair with Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse anyway, so yeah. Shadow Ball and Dark Pulse have the same BP too.
     
  5. MudkipsAreAwesome

    MudkipsAreAwesome I was there.

    Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
    Dry skin
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant / Jolly
    -Substitute
    -Focus Punch / Drain Punch / Brick Break / Earthquake
    -Sucker Punch
    -Sword Dance

    Black Sludge and Dry Skin in rain makes a 1/4 HP recovery every turn. Focus Punch because it is awesome behind a sub. Drain Punch / Brick Break as a safer alternative. Earthquake for killage against steel/psychic types, and a lot of coverage. Sucker Punch for some priority absusing and fighting/dark combo. Swords Dance to boost your already high attack to insane levels.

    Countering Croaks:
    1)The sun. Drought Ninetales murders Dry Skin Toxicroaks, provided that their Drizzle Politoed is down.
    2)Ghost Types. Most Toxicroak sets can't touch you. Just be careful of that sucker punch.
    3)Multi hitting moves(Not that anyone does that but still...)
    4)Poison Heal Gliscor. Kinda obvious, seeing how Toxicroaks are physical. Can't poison you, can't damage you.
    5)Skarmory. Whirlwinds away croaks that hide behind subs, destroying the SD set up, roost of the damage(note that after roosting you are vulnerable to Toxicroak's fighting attacks). Or just plain destroy them with Brave Bird.
    6)Steel/Bug types. They take neutral damage from Croaks moves and hit back for powerful damage.
    7)Fast Psychic types. Just hope that they don't have a sub up, or you'll be murdered by Sucker Punch.

    Toxicroak tactics 101:
    1)Pairs nicely with a paralyzer. Keep throwing subs until the opponent can't attack, then swords dance the next turn while he destroys your sub. Keep repeating until you get +6 attack. Then murder. There is no net change in HP with Dry Skin (in rain) and Black Sludge.
    2)Toxic Spikes. Sub like mad in the rain with black sludge while the opponents dies via poison. If the opponent decides to set up then you set up as well.
    3)Zoroark. Yea we get this a lot. But I've got to point this out. Have a Zoroark pretend to be Toxicroak. Psychic! No effect.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2011
  6. SomeoneIGuess

    SomeoneIGuess ?Hu Hsilaciryl

    Whoops just checked Bulbapedia. gotta change my 1/4 in my post.
     
  7. Diaglio

    Diaglio Well-Known Member

    Toxicroak @ Muscle Band/Black Sludge
    Dry Skin
    Adamant/Jolly
    252 Atk 252 Hp 4 Speed
    -Sucker Punch
    -Brick Break/Drain Punch
    -X-Scissor
    -Poison Jab

    Standard Physical Toxicroak set. Brick Break if you want to break Light Screen and Reflect, Drain Punch if you want added HP recovery. Sucker Punch for priority abuse. Poison Jab for reliable STAB. X-Scissor for coverage.
     
  8. TimmahX

    TimmahX Well-Known Member

    Traits

    Forewarn: Tells you if the opponent carries a 1hko or Super Effective move, but in most cases a smart player will know what moves the opponent is carrying, and therefore this ability is obsolete.

    Dry Skin: With Rain on the rise, this can be a useful skill. You heal off of water attacks and get leftovers-par healing from rain, but get a makeshift weakness to fire attacks and take slip damage from Sun. Expect to have Ninetails be a counter for Dry Skin sets, and Politoed to be an ideal partner.

    Poison Touch: Adds a 20% chance to Poison on all Physical Attacks Toxicroak uses... and he's a physical sweeper. Oh yeah, that's amazing. I mean, it's not as good as using Toxic / Thunder Wave / Will-o-Wisp / Hypnosis in a good amount of situations, but if those aren't readily available, this is great. If your team has a big amount of status support, you may want Dry Skin, but otherwise, this trait has a lot of use.

    The Reaper's Touch
    Choice Band/Scarf / Life Orb
    Jolly / Adamant (252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP)
    Poison Touch
    - Poison Jab
    - Cross Chop
    - Sucker Punch
    - Stone Edge / Earthquake / Bullet Punch / Swords Dance (Only if Life Orb is used)

    Poison Jab and Cross Chop are Toxicroak's ideal STAB options. Sucker Punch is there to cover Psychic types which normally obliterate Toxicroak (Some people will argue that a solid number of Psychic types are locked in the uber tier and that it's an uncommon type to use, but there are enough new slow Psychic types from 5th Generation to warrant a move slot for this move).

    The final slot is pretty versatile. Stone Edge catches Toxicroak's flying weakness. Earthquake is earthquake. Bullet Punch has priority, but it's coverage is inferior to Cross Chop's. Finally, Life Orb variants can take Swords Dance for a nice attack boost.

    I have my priorities in order
    Choice Band / Life Orb
    Brave / Quiet (252 Attack, 252 Special Attack, 4 HP)
    Poison Touch / Dry Skin
    - Vacuum Wave
    - Bullet Punch
    - Sucker Punch
    - Stone Edge / Earthquake / Venoshock / Poison Jab / Swords Dance / Nasty Plot

    Gotta have a gimmick set at some point, though this one is remotely viable. First off, Vacuum Wave covers Toxicroak's lack of Mach Punch, even though it uses its not as high SpAtk (Though this lets it devastate Cloyster). Bullet and Sucker Punch make up your other two priority moves.

    For the last slot, Stone Edge and Earthquake offer coverage. Poison Jab has nice power. Venoshock should only be considered on Poison Touch variations, but can get huge power if you hit a poisoned target. Finally, Swords Dance and Nasty Plot offer Atk/SpAtk boosts, but which one you choose should be based on the nature you picked.

    Let them melt in the rain
    Black Sludge
    Jolly / Adamant (252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP)
    Dry Skin
    - Drain Punch
    - Sucker Punch / Poison Jab
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance / Bulk Up

    A gimmick set in every regard, but also one that is capable of clean sweeps if played right. Without Rain set up though, this set loses a lot of viability, so make sure you have rain support and Dry Skin.

    Drain Punch, Black Sludge, and Dry Skin keeps your HP very high at all times. Sucker Punch gives you Fighting/Dark coverage and priority (And a way to fight ghosts) while Poison Jab has more power. Substitutes can be set up easily with all of the recovery options that Toxicroak has. With Substitutes up, you can bolster Toxicroak with Swords Dance or Bulk Up.

    Counters

    Spiritomb is a great counter for its resistance and immunity to the two STABs of Toxicroak. From there, we have every other ghost type, a good number of Steel types, ideally Skarmory, Metagross, Bonzong, Escavalier, Forretress and Durant. Finally, anything that's faster than it with Psychic attacks. Psychic types come to mind, but pokemon with Extrasensory as an egg move or Psychic for no reason also work for the surprise hit, since Toxicroak will probably anticipate a Psychic on a Psychic type and use Sucker Punch in response. Ninetails screws with Dry Skin variants, and carries a few Psychic attacks to dispose of it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2011
  9. Meowmeow

    Meowmeow selfproclaimed guru

    And now I return to my complaining Eelektross didn't get chosen. Not happy.

    Anyway, Toxicroak. Quite an interesting Pokemon for sure. Time to go to work.

    Choice time
    Ability: Dry Skin/Poison Touch
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 252 atk and speed, 4 HP
    @: Choice Band/Choice Scarf

    -Gunk Shot/Poison Jab/Thunderpunch
    -Cross Chop
    -Pursuit/Sucker Punch
    -Earthquake

    Cross Chop is the main STAB. Pursuit and Sucker Punch deal with Ghosts and Psychics, Earthquake hits Heatran and other Steels. Gunk Shot is the better option because Poison has horrendous type coverage so STAB 120 base power can alleviate that problem. If accuracy is an issue, use Poison Jab. If Gyarados is an issue, use Thunderpunch.

    Special stuff
    Ability: Dry Skin
    Nature: Modest/Timid
    EVs: 252 sp. atk and speed, 4 HP
    @: Choice Specs/Choice Scarf

    -Focus Blast
    -Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball
    -Mud Bomb/Sludge Wave
    -Vacuum Wave

    Focus Blast is main STAB, Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball hit common switch-ins, Mud Bomb hits certain annoyances, Sludge Wave is another STAB, Vacuum Wave is priority.

    The fact that I am annoyed Eelektross didn't get chosen will end my sets with that.
     
  10. TimmahX

    TimmahX Well-Known Member

    I guess you still haven't read this. A majority of the time they used a number generator and pick whichever whichever pokemon number was spit out. So Eelektross will come eventually.

    And even then, there's not a lot to discuss with him. He's really straightforward. He only has 1 really viable moveset, maybe 2 if you like gimmicky stuff. Yes, I use him, but that doesn't mean he's not very linear to use and counter.

    Finally, you shouldn't let your personal irritation for no reason whatsoever stop you from helping other people. That's just being rude.
     
  11. dodohead272

    dodohead272 Well-Known Member

    pokemon that have good synergy with toxicroak,
    Dark types like umbreon, absol zoroark which are immune to psychic and hydreigon which are immune to psychic and ground types

    rotom W which is immune to ground and resist flying

    azelf uxie mesprit and cresselia which are immune to ground and resist psychic

    honchkrow and mandibuzz are immune to ground and psychic
     
  12. Spacial Rend

    Spacial Rend Ultra Trainer

    Leadicroak@Life Orb
    Poison Touch/Dry Skin
    Jolly
    252 Atk 252 Spd 4 HP
    Taunt
    Poison Jab/Gunk Shot
    Sucker Punch
    Cross Chop/Stone Edge
    Taunt is a good move that can stop slower leads from setting up Stealth Rocks. It can also stop healing, setting up, status conditions, and more. Sucker Punch will always succeed if the opposing Pokemon has already been Taunted. Poison Jab and Gunk Shot are STAB that have a really high chance of poisoning (50% if I'm right) the opponent, Gunk Shot being much more powerful, but not reliable. Finally, Cross Chop is powerful STAB, while Stone Edge has good coverage. This set is mainly to be used to annoy slower leads from setting up, then become an all-out attacker.

    Rain Abbuser@Black Sludge
    Dry Skin
    Careful
    252 HP 252 SpDef 4 Def
    Protect
    Bulk Up
    Poison Jab
    Drain Punch
    Protect gives a free turn for healing more from the Rain and Black Sludge. Bulk Up allows it to boost its Attack and Defence to crazy levels. Poison Jab is STAB and Drain Punch is also, just Drain Punch heals Toxicroak even more, on top of the Rain and Black Sludge heal.

    Toxic Staller@Black Sludge
    Poison Touch
    Jolly
    252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 HP
    Poison Jab
    Protect
    Drain Punch
    Substitute

    Poison Jab can poison the opponent pretty easily with Poison Touch, while also dealing insane damage. Protect and Substitute are amazing for extended stalling. Drain Punch is STAB and can heal Toxicroak, since it will take damage from setting up all of the Substitutes. It's a very straightforward set that sweeps and stalls, all in one set.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2011
  13. Vodka Haze

    Vodka Haze Well-Known Member

    Quickroak:

    Ability:
    Poison Touch
    EVs:
    4HP/252Atk/252Spe
    Nature:
    Adamant/Jolly
    Item:
    Focus Sash
    Moves:
    Fake Out
    Poison Jab
    Sucker Punch
    Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Earthquake/Brick Break/Revenge

    Toxicroak hasn't got the best Speed in the game, having only 85 base Speed is mediocre at best, which is really disappointing. So this set is designed to counter your weak speed by using a lot of priority moves. Fake Out is the big one to use, because it can get a rid of any Focus Sashers as well as get an early poison on your opponent. Sucker Punch is needed for Toxicroak, because you need to outspeed any opponent in order to defeat them, plus it counters most Psychic and Ghost types. Poison Jab is there for a good STAB, but makes great use of your ability, because 30% + 20% = 50%!! My maths is probably incorrect, but you know have a 50% of poisoning your opponent if you use Poison Jab. The next slot is up to you. Rock Slide and Stone Edge are there for Flying-types, Stone Edge has better power and a higher critical-hit ratio, but Rock Slide has better accuracy and can flinch (though that probably won't happen unless your opponent is very slow you have set up a Tailwind). Earthquake, Brick Break and Revenge are also good options, because you can kill annoying Steel-types who might try to wall you. Earthquake has more type-coverage, but Brick Break and Revenge have STAB. Brick Break prevents Light-Screen and Reflect, but Revenge is a good counter to faster sweepers than you. The Focus Sash is there because most hits that will be dealt will come from your opponent, so you can survive with your bad defences, but also if you miss a Sucker Punch opportunity or your opponent resists them. Maxing your Attack and Speed is the key to this set, and I personally would go for an Adamant nature over Jolly because with a Jolly nature, there still is a lot of Pokemon you won't outspeed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2011
  14. jstiglich

    jstiglich First V.A. Espeon

    Old Miner-Croak
    ability: Dry Skin
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 126 speed, 126 HP, 4 atk
    @ Rocky Helmet
    Moveset;
    Gunk shot
    Bulldoze /Super Fang
    x-Scizor
    Cross chop/Bounce

    Thisone is more of a mixed physical sweaper

    Partner
    Crawdaunt;
    it can destroy ground and psychics and it can set up Rain
     
  15. TheAwesomeOne

    TheAwesomeOne Well-Known Member

    Bounce?!?!?!
     
  16. piplup1036

    piplup1036 Well-Known Member

    hmmm toxicrock intersting...
     
  17. algae5

    algae5 1337

    Support toxicroak

    Support toxi's

    Toxicroak@black sludge
    dry skin
    timid
    252 spd, 116 HP, 140 SpA
    -focus blast/toxic
    -shadow ball/toxic
    -taunt/substitute
    -knock off/toxic/protect/substitute

    try this or the physical variant

    Toxicroak@black sludge
    dry skin
    jolly
    252 spd, 176 HP, 80 Att
    -focus punch
    -substitute
    -taunt
    -sucker punch

    The special variant gets perfect coverage between fighting and ghost, plus the advantage of a taunter. If you want, you can add sub protect for stalling, and if you want you can replace one of the attacks with toxic if you do sub protect, but you can be taunt bait then. full speed is for taunting and attacking, which are your main priorities. After that is some bulk and some power.

    The physical variant taunts first, then has guaranteed priority sucker punches, while it can also do the classic subpunch. speed is a priority so you can taunt fast, and then it doesn't matter greatly with priority sucker punch or subpunch. then there is a little less investment of power and more hp, because you have more power and stronger attacks.
     
  18. Del Mundo

    Del Mundo Ghost Fan

    Aww, you beat me to what I was going to suggest! Hahaha!

    Yeah, this is my favorite Toxicroak set. It works awesome in the rain. Taunt is there for shutting down walls like dusclops and ensuring sucker punch. Substitute-Dry Skin-Rain. Classic sort of stall strategy.
     
  19. Kraleck

    Kraleck Well-Known Member

    Also, Justified Pokemon shut down Sucker Punch attempts, Steel and Poison Types and Immunity Ability Pokemon laugh at Poison Touch (but be careful of 'Croak's Fighting STAB for Steel Types), Guts Pokemon dare you to try, Cofagrigus shuts all of Physical 'Croak's natural Abilities off, and other Pokemon have ways around Status Effects (Natural Cure, Berries, etc.).

    Soak will render Black Sludge (a staple of Dry Skin 'Croak) useless. Drought Ninetales will also monkey with Dry Skin and has Extrasensory to boot. Taking a Thunder during Rain is likely crippling, if not lethal, to Dry Skin 'Croak.

    Getting Psychic Moves past Sucker Punch means you cannot safely rely on STAB (unless your name is Metagross or Bronzong). Getting around Brick Break and Sucker Punch is hard to do, short of using a Ghost Type with Status Moves (Spiritomb can weaken 'Croak's Attack and Pressure-screw with Sucker Punch's PP with Will-o-Wisp instead of an attack Move).

    The biggest worry, in my mind, is getting 'Croak around Drought Ninetales, Metagross, Bronzong, Cofagrigus, and Spiritomb without making a grievous error. Knowing what can stall out Sucker Punch, dessicate 'Croak, and shrug off Poisoning is key to aiding 'Croak. Because of that, Drizzle Politoed, Whimsicott with Taunt, an EQ or Solarbeam user, and Zoroark (to draw out a Psychic Move from the Illusion of your 'Croak) are good backups.
     
  20. Vodka Haze

    Vodka Haze Well-Known Member

    A good teammate for Toxicroak would probably be a Pokemon that knows Tailwind like Sigilyph to increase your speed for a few turns and really sweep your opponent.
     
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