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Community POTW #26

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Jun 26, 2011.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

    Reno's busy writing the last one so here's the next one

    [​IMG]

    This week we'll be doing Heracross, a classic Pokémon from Gold & Silver

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/214.shtml

    Heracrosshasn't been done for Pokémon of the Week since before Platinum gave it tutor moves, plus Moxie gives it new strategies and it now has to defend itself against many new bug-types

    Go nuts.
     
  2. SomeoneIGuess

    SomeoneIGuess ?Hu Hsilaciryl

    Rest-Talk / Bulk Up
    Heracross @ Leftovers
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 204 HP / 152 SDef / 152 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Bulk Up
    - Megahorn

    Heracross has reasonable bulk, great typing, and Guts. These make it a great Rest-Talker. Rest and Sleep Talk for obvious reasons, Bulk Up because Heracross's Unique typing let it set up on stuff like Tyranitar, Conkeldurr, and even Toxicroak. Megahorn is the only attack Heracross needs here, since it gets STAB, is a Physical Move, hits for at least 0.25x Damage on every Pokemon, and well... Close Combat lowers Defense so don't think about it.

    Really, there's also Choice Scarf, Swords Dance, Choice Band, Moxie abuse, Etc. Heracross is a very diverse Pokemon. Night Slash, Pursuit, Close Combat, X-Scissor, Stone Edge, Blah...
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2011
  3. Jeggyg

    Jeggyg Veteran Nerd

    Ho Hum... Never really used heracross...

    Choicebandcross
    Item: Choice Band
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Moxie
    Moves:
    Mega Horn
    Close Combat
    Stone Edge
    Aerial Ace/Return

    Ok, so we like moxie because it gives us and attack boost, which on top of Choice Band is... Boss like...
    Mega Horn is the most powerfull bug type move, buuut has shaky accuracy. It's also the only plus 60 power bug type move that heracross can learn...
    Close Combat is one of the most powerfull fight type moves, certainly the most risky that he can learn.
    Stone Edge Is to deal with flying types and fire types.
    Aerial ace is to deal with... fight types? But you could choose return to just get neuteral damage on most :)
    EV's 252 Atk, 252 spd, 4 Hp.

    Reversal-sub-punch
    Item: leichi berry
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Moxie
    Moves:
    Substitute
    Reversal
    Focus Punch
    Mega Horn

    ok, this is a fusion of the low Hp, use reversal thang and the sub punch game.
    Substitute to bring you down to low health and maximise Reversal
    Reversal for when you have low Hp...
    Focus Punch for using the wasted subs...
    Mega horn because it prowns.
    EV's 252 Hp, 128 spd, 128 atk.
     
  4. SomeoneIGuess

    SomeoneIGuess ?Hu Hsilaciryl

    IMO Reversal simply won't work. OU is infested with Sandstorm and Priority, and Heracross is bound to end up in OU eventually. Choice Band would actually work better with Guts, since you can't sweep. Choice Scarf is different, but the main reason Heracross is used is because of Guts. In fact...

    Heracross @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Megahorn
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Pursuit

    I just realised how similar the two choice sets are.
     
  5. FrozenFroslass

    FrozenFroslass Identity Disorder?

    Oh wow. That's a nice sidebar to the right you added to the site. It's cool.

    Always an attacker...
    - Megahorn
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge / Earthquake / Shadow Claw / Night Slash
    - Stone Edge / Earthquake / Shadow Claw / Night Slash
    Item Held: Life Orb
    Ability: Moxie
    EVs and Nature:
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Att. / 252 Spe.
    Adamant Nature

    I don't have much to say about this set. It's just.... Reckless. You could use Leftovers as well. Also Swords Dance.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2011
  6. SomeoneIGuess

    SomeoneIGuess ?Hu Hsilaciryl

    Heracross doesn't learn Baton Pass...!
     
  7. Regarde

    Regarde Banned

    choice scarf dohohohoh
     
  8. FrozenFroslass

    FrozenFroslass Identity Disorder?

    Shhh! Let's keep that a secret xD

    I misread Brick Break. Because I fail. Anyway... *whistles*
     
  9. PMSandStormSBBZ

    PMSandStormSBBZ The Uber OU

    Poor Heracross. When he was once the most feared Choice Bander out there in 3rd Gen, he really spiraled downward when new threats like Gliscor and Infernape came along. And that's not mentioning how many of other Heracross's enemies got a boost in 4th Gen, even though Heracross stayed strong... until fewer and fewer people used him. Because of this, Heracross was taken down to BL at best (I think that he was UU for a time...?). Now 5th Gen is here, and Heracross did not gain anything new except Moxie, which increases his attack stage by one after knocking out something. With Moxie, Heracross can keep growing stronger and stronger, but a smart player won't use Moxie, as Moxie Heracross can't absorb any status at all.

    Besides the new Moxie, Heracross is the same old Pokemon. It speed ties with Toxicroak (base 85), has a GREAT base 125 attack, and 80 / 75 / 95 defenses aren't too bad. Despite this, Scizor will always overshadow Heracross because of lack of weaknesses, U-Turn, and physical priority in Bullet Punch. However, don't underestimate this guy. He wasn't feared in early 4th Gen (Diamond and Pearl) for no reason, guys.

    Abilities:

    Guts
    Arguably the best ability of choice here. Guts allow him to switch into Burns and Toxic Spikes with relative impunity. Also, Heracross is made as a sleep absorber at times, making Guts the best choice out there when it comes to abilities.
    Swarm
    Heracross's worst ability, which raises the power of Bug-type moves when lower than 33% of health. Only needed for Substitute sets, like Substitute + 3 Attacks or SubSalac, as Heracross will not be statused.
    Moxie
    Boosts your attack by one stage after knocking out someone. It works more in theory rather than in practice, though. Even if it gets Moxie boosts, there will always be more faster Pokemon out there like Infernape to end your sweep. Only use this on Choice Scarf versions, as he really does not have the speed to pull off a Moxie set.

    Movesets:

    ;214;
    Winter-Resistant Fighter (Choice)

    -Close Combat / Focus Punch
    -Megahorn
    -Stone Edge
    -Pursuit / Night Slash / Shadow Claw / Sleep Talk
    Item Attached: Choice Scarf / Choice Band
    Ability: Guts
    EVs and Nature: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

    Good old Choice Heracross. They are the most popular sets for Heracross.
    Close Combat is a great move for Fighting-types, having 120 power, 100% accuracy, and reliability for any Choice item. However, Focus Punch is a good option with Choice Band, as it's a general wallbreaker and hole-puncher with a Choice Band.
    Megahorn is an incredible attack that has reasonable accuracy, a soild 120 power, and reasonable PP.
    Stone Edge is for those Flying-type that resist Heracross's STAB combination.
    The final choice is for which set you're running. Use Pursuit on the Choice Band to catch fleeing opponents. Use Night Slash or Shadow Claw for the Choice Scarf to hit Ghosts, although they also work Choice Band, too. Finally, Sleep Talk can turn Heracross into a sleep absorber.

    Choice Band increases power, Choice Scarf increases speed. Pick your poison. Literally.

    EVs are straight and to the point. No need talking about the EVs.

    ;214;
    Substitute + 3 Attacks

    -Substitute
    -Close Combat
    -Megahorn
    -Stone Edge / Night Slash
    Item Attached: Leftovers
    Ability: Swarm / Moxie
    EVs and Nature: 16 HP / 240 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)

    Heracross has many problems with his counters, but when he throws up a Sub when the opponent switches, he can either kill him off or weaken him enough for a priority move to finish it off.
    Substitute is obvious.
    Close Combat and Megahorn are great STAB choices.
    Stone Edge hits Flying-types, Night Slash for Ghosts.

    Leftovers regains health lost from Substitutes.

    16 HP EVs for a Leftovers number. The rest thrown into offenses.

    Other Options:

    Bulk Up may work, but with the new powerhouses like Conkeldurr and Chandelure, it may not work.

    Checks and Counters:

    Oh, how the mighty fallen... his large checks and counters only increased here on out. Zapdos, Gliscor, Gyarados, Dragonite, Rotom-A, Tentacruel, Gengar, Jellicent, and Galvantula resist his STAB moves and can fire off a strong attack.

    Infernape gets a special mention, as it outspeeds Heracross, has a Fire Blast / Flare Blitz to end his life, and will never be OHKOed by Megahorn, even with Guts, Choice Band, and a critical hit factored in. That says alot. However, the other attacks like Close Combat and Stone Edge will kill Infernape.
     
  10. Whitelightning

    Whitelightning I am Back

    woo hoo! one of my favorites

    Battlebug

    megahorn
    close combat
    stone edge/earthquake/shadow claw/areil ace
    stone edge/earthquake/shadow claw/areil ace

    Guts
    adamant/jolly
    hp4/atk252/spd252
     
  11. frogofdoom555

    frogofdoom555 (>:O) FFFFFFUUUUUU

    Wow. What a unique pokemon. It's weird typing means a diverse moveset.
    So Here's mine.

    Feeling Horn-y @ Leftovers
    Moxie
    Jolly Nature
    EVs: 80 HP 4 Attack 85 Speed

    Bulk Up
    Megahorn
    Brick Break
    Aerial Ace

    Bulk Up to boost attack which will work well with these moves. Pair it up with Moxie and you have a force to be reckoned with.

    Megahorn is the star of this set, hence the name "Feeling Horn-y". It gives STAB, plus you can plow through most things with mega-moxie-bulk-horn.

    Brick Break gives STAB and coverage while breaking through the strategy of dual screeners.

    Aerial Ace gives coverage plus a bulk-up-moxie-aerial-ace makes for a devastating attack.

    That's my set, and i have to say. Well Played, Serebii.
    _________________________________________________________________


    "Oh boy, I'm so hungry, I could eat an Octorok!"
     
  12. SomeoneIGuess

    SomeoneIGuess ?Hu Hsilaciryl

    Just a comment. Conkeldurr can't touch Bulk Up Heracross, since all it can do it hit it with a Neutral Stone Edge at best.
     
  13. asterat

    asterat Banned

    Wow

    All three abilities are good. Moxie is moxie and well that makes it good. Swarm is good... But Hera OSS isn't really fast which is why it requires. Guts means her across can be another facade toxic orber, and a pretty good one t that
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2011
  14. UsernameSayWha?

    UsernameSayWha? Hates Hidden Power

    Heracross @ Expert Belt
    Guts
    252 Atk/56 HP/200 Spd
    Jolly/Adamant
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Megahorn
    - Close Combat
    All-Out ResTalk attacker.
     
  15. PMSandStormSBBZ

    PMSandStormSBBZ The Uber OU

    Don't forget that Conkeldurr can also Bulk Up along side Heracross, so the damage done won't be bad. And besides; Heracross's strongest attack against Conkeldurr is Low Kick / Megahorn (they do the same damage; Low Kick has 90 power after STAB, and Megahorn also has 90 power, after STAB and 0.5 effective rate). Even still, a +6 Heracross can only do 24.2% to 28.9% to a +6 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SDef Conkeldurr with Low Kick. Meanwhile, that same Conkeldurr can do 45.3% to 53.5% with Stone Edge, 2HKOing after Stealth Rock damage.
     
  16. Pokeman Man

    Pokeman Man The Real Slim Shady

    Keep it Classic..
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge
    - Night Slash
    Ability: Guts
    Item: Choice Scarf / Band
    Evs and Nature:
    252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Jolly nature [+Spe, -SpA]

    Back in 4th Gen, no one would dare burn or poison the Heracross, fearing the Guts. Now that everyone think that Heracross is Moxie but this one isn't, you can switch into a Will-O-Wisp or Toxic and start raping with Scarf and Guts boost.
    Close Combat on any Pokemon is never wasted, it's always good.
    Megahorn rapes everything as well, with the cost of a little accuracy.
    Both of Heracross's STABs are resisted by Flyings and Ghosts.
    Stone Edge handles the Flying type, and Night Slash hits the Ghosts.
    Choice Band seriously wrecks things up and Choice Scarf gives you Guts boost some terrifying speed.


    TerrorCross
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge
    - Night Slash
    Ability: Moxie
    Item: Choice Scarf / Life Orb
    Evs and Nature:
    252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly nature [+Spe, -SpA]

    Moxie Heracross will wreck your team if you're not ready.
    The moves are all the same, the two STABs, and the coverage.
    Scarf keeps your wreckage going, and Life Orb so you can switch attacks.


    BoostCross
    - Bulk Up / Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge / Night Slash
    Ability: Moxie / Guts
    Item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    Evs and Nature:
    252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Jolly nature [+Spe, -SpA]

    Kinda self-explanatory. Boost your attack with a move of your choice.
    Unfortunately you can only have Stone Edge or Night Slash, what would you like to hit? Ghosts or Flyings? Pick.
    Moxie keeps the attack boosts going, and Guts will help against Burn/Poison.


    SubCross
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge
    - Substitute
    Ability: Moxie
    Item: Salac Berry
    Evs and Nature:
    252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 Def (30 HP IV)
    Jolly nature [+Spe, -SpA]

    This is personally my favorite set. I've seriously swept entire team with this set. Sub to your Salac and tear things up. This lets you outspeed a lot of Pokemon while keeping your movepool versatile and not locked into a move. Stone Edge is preferred over Night Slash for extra power.
    30 HP IV gives you exactly 300 HP.


    SubPunch/Reversal
    - Substitute | Endure
    - Focus Punch | Reversal
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge / Night Slash
    Ability: Moxie
    Item: Leftovers |Salac Berry
    Evs and Nature:
    252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def (30 Spe IV)
    Jolly nature [+Spe, -SpA]

    Substitute keeps you safe, while throwing off 150 STAB Focus Punches off of 125 base attack. Certainly not something you would want to pass up.
    The other side of the 'prong' is EndureReversal.
    Endure to one HP and hit crazy hard with +1 Speed and a base 300 Attack (200 Reversal + STAB).

    The other moves are just coverage.
     
  17. 3.14kachu

    3.14kachu 2.72pic √(-1)nventor

    Oh yeah? Then watch this:

    Ultimate 1 HPcross@Salac Berry
    Ability: Moxie
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 HP

    -Endure
    -Flail / Feint
    -Reversal
    -Shadow Claw

    The fact that Heracross has both Flail and Reversal makes this set so deadly. With the insane power of these moves at low HP, you can KO the first pokemon easily. I threw feint in there because the foe in any competitive match will send up a priority-user, BUT with the boost from Moxie, you'll probably be able to KO it with a priority Feint... and get another boost from Moxie.
     
  18. Kraleck

    Kraleck Well-Known Member

    Countering Heracross
    -Speed is an issue, even with Jolly+Salac. 171 Pokemon have higher Base Speed and most, if not all, can carry a Flying Type Move in some way (37 of those have STAB Flying).
    -Rain Teams will benefit from no-miss Hurricane. Something to note is that Whimsicott can Hurricane and carry Prankster, so...
    -Pranksters get special mention for harassing 'cross (and its partners) with non-Status-Effect Status Moves like Leech Seed, Stealth Rock, or Memento. What's worse is that a Prankster-Assist turns the Randomly chosen Move into a Priority as well, making Purrloin a bit more dangerous if the opponent went all-out with attack moves...
    -Physical Fire and Psychic Moves, plus Psyshock, will be hazardous to 'cross's health. Many Pokemon can carry either or both, making a Water Type with Flamethrower potential that much more risky to come into. That said, 'cross can't properly switch out to a Flash Fire Pokemon against a Water Type with a Fire Move if the opponent senses that switch. With so many Dark Types to back Fighting Types up, Psychic Type Moves will not be seen as much, but are still widely usable.
    -Pressure Pokemon will suck down Megahorn and Close Combat's PP faster than you can say "Heracross used Struggle." Dusknoir, Aerodactyl, and Spiritomb are great to switch in to 'cross's STAB and backup Moves, but beware of Neutral Megahorn with Spiritomb, Neutral Fighting and Super-Effective Stone Edge/Rock Slide with Aerodactyl, and Night Slash/Shadow Claw with Dusknoir.
    -Gengar, Drifblim, and Mismagius can deal with most of 'cross's offense except Shadow Claw, Night Slash, Stone Edge, and Rock Slide. EQ and Fighting STAB are free switches for them, so beware.
    -Cofagrigus and Cursed-Body-Ghost Types will mess with your Ability and Moves, respectively, plus Jellicent and Cofagrigus carry significant defensive capabilities to screw with your 1HKO potential.
    -Weezing, Weak Armor Garbodor, and Intimidate Pokemon will mess with Heracross's EQ, Speed, and Attack Stat, respectively, while being nuisances to 'cross's backup if you switch.

    Overall, Heracross needs to tread lightly when moving in/out and hit hard enough for a 1~2HKO when the opponent makes a switch. Zoroark is not recommended as backup due to 'cross's Fire and quad-Flying weaknesses being neutral hits on the Illusion Fox.
     
  19. seth656

    seth656 Member

    Heracross! what great unique typing!
    I can't think of a set that wasn't already said but I have an overview
    Moxie in generation V has brought heracross the ability to be a great revenge killer. Plus its uni
     
  20. Missingno. Master

    Missingno. Master Poison-type Trainer

    Heracross@Choice Scarf
    Adamant nature
    252 Attack/252 Speed/4 HP
    Ability: Swarm/Guts
    ~Megahorn
    ~Close Combat
    ~Shadow Claw
    ~Earthquake

    Heracross has awesome Attack, iffy Speed, and a nice physical movepool. Perfect Choice Scarf material. Megahorn and Close Combat are for STAB. Close Combat and Shadow Claw together provide unresisted coverage. And Earthquake is just awesome.

    Either one of Heracross's regular abilities can work here. Swarm boosts the power of Megahorn if Heracross's HP is low. And since it's a choiced Pokemon, there'll be a lot of switching going on, almost certainly with Stealth Rock active. Guts means that foes will have to think twice before burning Heracross or laying down Toxic Spikes. Moxie is not only illegal on Heracross at the moment, but not too ideal on a Choice Scarf set. There'll be a lot of switching going on, making the Attack boosts moot.

    Heracross@Leftovers
    Careful nature
    252 HP/252 Sp.Def/4 Def
    Ability: Guts
    ~Rest
    ~Sleep Talk
    ~Bulk Up
    ~Night Slash

    This is a more defensive Heracross. While it seems an odd choice to make a defensive Pokémon out of something that can be OHKO'd by Peck or Wing Attack, it's doable. Heracross sports a surprisingly decent Special Defense stat, and its HP doesn't totally suck. Investing maximally in those two stats works nicely along with Bulk Up's boosts to the other two stats that matter in this set: Attack and Defense. Rest and Sleep Talk are for instant recovery, as well as ensuring that Heracross isn't total dead weight as it sleeps off the damage. As a bonus, Guts activates with Sleep now, so that makes Heracross even more deadly when asleep. As for the attacking move, Night Slash is the way to go. On a set like this, you want a move that nothing is immune to. Ghost types would laugh if you ran Brick Break. Megahorn, while getting STAB and having no immunities, is also hampered by its iffy accuracy and low PP count. Normal-types laugh at Shadow Claw, Ghost-types scoff at Return, Aerial Ace, Rock Tomb, and Smack Down are too weak, and Flying-types, stuff with Levitate, and anything holding an Air Ballon laughs off Earthquake. Rock Slide is an option, but its accuracy has let me down a little bit.

    Guts is the only thing you should be considering for this set. Even if the set did rely on allowing Heracross's HP to remain within range for activating Swarm, this set boasts no Bug moves. And Moxie is illegal with Sleep Talk. Also illegal without Sleep Talk at the moment, for that matter.

    Heracross@Choice Specs
    Modest nature
    252 Sp.Atk/252 Speed/4 HP
    Ability: Swarm
    ~Focus Blast/Vacuum Wave
    ~Struggle Bug
    ~Hidden Power (Ghost)
    ~Round/Venoshock/Hyper Beam

    Wow. Just... wow. Looks even worse in writing than I thought. I put this here to prove a point that should already have been driven home by Heracross's base 40 Special Attack; don't even try running a special sweeping set with it. If you're stupid enough to actually try this... well, Focus Blast and Struggle Bug get STAB, and so does Vacuum Wave if you hate Focus Blast's accuracy (though in all honesty that's the least of this set's problems), HP Ghost and Focus Blast provide perfect coverage, and the last slot contains, no joke, the remainder of Heracross's special movepool. Not counting Snore, if you want to get technical about it. Yeah. Don't do it.

    And Swarm is listed as the only ability for two reasons. One, Struggle Bug needs all the help it can get. And two, its other two abilities boost its Attack, a stat it doesn't use here.
     
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