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Community POTW SM #001

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Nov 27, 2016.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

    Alola!

    Welcome to the first Pokémon of the Week for Sun & Moon. This week we're starting with the Grass-type starter of the games

    [​IMG]

    Decidue is the first ever starter to be part Ghost-type and has a decent movepool and stat spread

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/724.shtml

    Go nuts
     
  2. kykyan123

    kykyan123 Master forum reader

    double
    Your spirit is mine!
    spirit shackle-razor leaf-brave bird-synthesis
    havebanother pokemon that can make sunny wheater
    jeld item shold be decidium
    max helth ev max speed ev
    sorry for bad spelling was in a rush
     
  3. Neosonic97

    Neosonic97 Fastest thing Alive

    Not going to lie, none of this generation's three starters are all that great. Decidueye is a balanced attacker, with okay Special Defense, but due to the power creep (especially with his lackluster base speed of 70 which is on par with Samurott), he'll probably never make it to OU. How sad.

    Positives-
    +Base 107 Attack is decent.
    +Spirit Shackle is a fairly good signature move, with base 80 power, and it traps foes, too. It also allows Decidueye to use Sinister Arrow Raid if it so wishes.
    +Quite bulky on the special side with base 100 Special Defense.
    +Its unique ability, Long Reach, allows it to use moves like Leaf Blade without the worry of hitting something like Flame Body, Static or Effect Spore.
    +Looks cool.

    Negatives-
    -Base 70 Speed puts it in the Dead Man's Land when it comes to speed- too slow to function IN Trick Room, too slow to function OUTSIDE Trick Room.
    -Its base Defense of 75 and base HP of 78 isn't doing it any favors, either, making a bulky set kind of out of the question.
    -Fairly shallow movepool. It doesn't really get much of use outside of Leaf Blade, Sucker Punch, Spirit Shackle, Brave Bird and U-Turn.
    -Despite getting Nasty plot, a Special Set is just flat-out unusable. The best Special Moves it gets are Shadow Ball and Energy Ball, and that's it. So its base 100 Special Attack is useless. Literally the only move other than those that it gets that can be remotely considered is Hidden Power. This means burns are fatal for the owl.

    With that out of the way, here's the set.

    I had to become someone else, something else... I became... the Green Arrow.
    Decidueye @ Decidium Z/Life Orb
    EVs and Nature: Adamant or Impish Nature.
    Ability: Long Reach when it becomes legal.
    252 HP, 132 Atk, 128 Def.
    -Spirit Shackle
    -Leaf Blade
    -Sucker Punch
    -Synthesis/Roost/Brave Bird/Swords Dance/U-Turn.

    Decidueye is a Pokemon who has a limited movepool but would be able to make use of it to devastating effect were it not for its lackluster stats. In particular its base 70 speed is a big problem, and no speed investment can fix this. Decidueye only reaches 262 speed with maximum investment (level 100, perfect speed IV, boosting nature, 252 EVs), so it's just not worth it since certain OU threats will outspeed and destroy it anyway. Pretty much any Garchomp variant worth a damn will absolutely destroy it. Decidueye shines in the lower tiers, though, where its good combination of ability and moves can shine, but not due to its stats. Decidueye should run bulky over speed since even in UU and lower, there are still 'mons that will reliably outspeed Decidueye and take it out. But with that being said, on with the moveset.

    Spirit Shackle is Decidueye's Signature Move and a pretty good one, with base 80 power and a trapping effect, akin to Thousand Waves. Use it on a 'mon that Decidueye can threaten, and if it doesn't switch out, it's screwed as it will be trapped with Decidueye.
    Leaf Blade is the obligatory secondary STAB. Good power, decent Crit Rate, you get the idea.
    Sucker Punch allows Decidueye to deal with faster Ghosts and Psychics that would just Shadow Ball the owl into oblivion, like Gengar or Alakazam.
    The last slot can be a number of things. Swords Dance allows Decidueye to boost its attack and make its hits HURT. U-Turn and Brave Bird grant extra coverage, and U-Turn has the added effect of maintaining momentum. Roost and Synthesis are for healing.

    The item depends. If you want a one-shot wonder, you can give Decidueye the Decidium Z to have it use the Base 180 Power Sinister Arrow Raid, which should smash most less-than-bulky 'mons, like normal Charizards. If you want something a bit more damaging overall, Life Orb can boost Decidueye's damage output.

    Countering and Checking Decidueye
    Most things faster with a decently powerful STAB can just wipe the Owl out, as its defenses aren't that great. The only reason a Charizard would ever hesitate to come in on a Decidueye is if it's weakened or if the guy using a Charizard knows that Decidueye is carrying Decidium Z. Bulky Megazard X has nothing to fear from Decidueye and can render it useless through Will-O-Wisp, or just annihilate it with Flare Blitz, while taking low damage from Spirit Shackle. Arcanine and Heatran also work well in curbing the owl, as do most Dark-Types, as Decidueye doesn't have much to hit them with. Sharpedo can't take a Leaf Blade, but if it comes in safely, Decidueye MUST switch out or get annihilated by Crunch. Bisharp walls everything Decidueye can throw out, and can use either of Knock Off or Sucker Punch to do Decidueye in. Absol, too, can do so. In fact, there are very few Dark-Types that can't deal with Decidueye. Cacturne and Shiftry can't due to Brave Bird and U-Turn. Decidueye can't do anything to Hydreigon either, barely taking damage from anything barring U-Turn and one-shotting the sniper owl with Dark Pulse.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2016
  4. Mestorn

    Mestorn Wandering Battler

    Decidueye was my starter for Moon and while I love it to no end (False Swipe CTW-catch the world), as Neosonic97 stated, its crippling speed renders it all but unusable in high tier play.

    Favored Partners
    Decidueye loves partners that can mess with an opposing team's speed. Sticky Web is the clear standout, but paralysis inducers (*cough* Thunderwave *cough, cough*) are greatly appreciated as well. Stealth Rock is also greatly appreciated as 3 of Decidueye's 5 weaknesses STAB users are weak to it. So Shuckle. Decidueye's Ghost typing allows it to block rapid spin, which is great for the entry hazard support it loves, but unfortunately, its weakness to Flying means that it will usually run when a Defog user comes into play. Fairy and Fighting pokémon are also appreciated as Decidueye's Ghost Weakness means that Pursuit and Sucker Punch users will make it's life miserable. As with any offensive Grass type, Decidueye pairs up well with Fire types (though not as great as some other examples), with its Grass STABs downing the Ground, Rock and Water pokémon fire types hate. The 3 Fire-Fighting starters play off better than most with Decidueye, as they are capable of handling most of Decidueye's weaknesses with their STABs/coverage moves and love the anti-Ghost support as well.

    Other Options
    Baton Pass, Swords Dance, Nasty Plot Decidueye is one of 3 Pokémon to get this move combination (the others being Shiftry and Smeargle). While it is the slowest user of this move combo, its signature technique Spirit Shackle pairs well with it, giving Decidueye more opportunities to setup and pass to a more threatening sweeper, or mix things up and go on the offense itself. Baton Pass also allows Spirit Shackle to remain in effect, allowing Decidueye to turn the tables on would be counters if they eat the Spirit Shackle on the switch and can't KO it before it Baton Passes out.
    Low Sweep Decidueye needs all the speed help it can get. Dark Coverage is a plus, but this is still a weak move otherwise.
    Defog Only Decidueye's team can enjoy entry hazards! Muahahaha... Okay, it ruins its own entry hazards as well, but sometimes that's the price you pay.
    Haze No Buffing for you!

    Overall, Decidueye's tools give it the potential to completely ruin an opposing team's momentum, with Haze ruining setup sweepers, and Spirit Shackle trapping hit and runners, while giving back momentum to your team with U-Turn. However, its lackluster speed, and unimpressive defenses make this a pipe dream.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016
  5. gars129

    gars129 Active Member

    Havent tested this guy competitively, but the consensus is that this guy is best used as a pivot, general utility/defogger, spinblocker and stallbreaker. He has potential in OU, and cam fulfill several roles. The real issue is choosing between him and fellow Grass/Ghost Dhelmise, who has better physical stats and triple STAB due to Steelworker boosting his Anchor Shot, a steel type clone of Spirit Schackle, but lacks recovery, UTurn and Baton Pass. He also has rapid spin whereas Decidueye gets Defog, both moved having their advantages and issues in their respectives ways.


    Defensive
    Decidueye @ Leftovers / Colbur Berry
    Ability: Long Reach
    EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD (252 HP / 244 Def / 12 SpD)
    Careful / Impish Nature
    - Roost
    - U-turn
    - Spirit Shackle
    - Defog / Leaf Blade / Toxic

    SubRoost
    Decidueye @ Leftovers
    Ability: Long Reach
    EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD (252 HP / 244 Def / 12 SpD)
    Careful / Impish Nature
    - Roost
    - Substitute
    - Spirit Shackle
    - Toxic / Baton Pass
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
  6. Karxrida

    Karxrida Lost in the Waves

    Long Reach is currently illegal.

    I've heard this thing is alright in OU due to its role compression, though Defensive Defog is probably the only viable set. Lower tiers will probably be much more favorable to offensive sets.

    HP Fire for an OO. It hits Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn (is Ferro even legal pre-Bank?), which is a good enough reason to mention it when Bulky Mega Scizor is a solid answer that can U-turn out of Spirit Shackle.
     
  7. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    How are people already into competitive so early after launch? I just left the first island in my Sun playthrough and my Draxter is now level 21. I know it was launched earlier outside of Europe, but still, it's only been one week in Japan/Australia/America.

    Personally I think False Swipe is overrated. In my experience getting a pokémon's health bar into the red and hitting it with a status condition (for me usually sleep or paralysis) already makes most stuff very easy to catch. The difference in catching probability between 4% health and 1HP left is fairly minimal anyway if you do the math (in the old generations, I think up to gen 4, it often made literally no difference at all due to rounding in the software).
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
  8. Pokemon Power

    Pokemon Power Well-Known Member

    Can I make a suggestion? Please get rid of Pre-Evolution Corner, or at least expand it so it can include where to catch the pre-evolution and it's anime appearances.
     
  9. Assassin9399

    Assassin9399 Wanna hug?

    You should be able to find that in the Animedex and the Pokemon's personal page, respectively. Selecting the image of the Pokémon will directly send you to it's Pokédex page too. The pre-evolution corner is there because of the "Little Cup". As explained from the Smogon Tiers:
    I hope this explains why they do it like this. Also, there is a thread on the forum dedicated to suggestions like this: Serebii.net Suggestions Thread.
     
  10. Karxrida

    Karxrida Lost in the Waves

    Showdown has had SM since launch day because of the datamine.

    To expand on the above, some prevos are viable outside of LC such as Sneasel in NU(?).
     
  11. generic villager #5

    generic villager #5 Your ad here!

    Welcome to Gen VII competitive, where...well frankly I can't tell what's going on. Gengar without native Levitate, Smogon Bird no longer Smogon Bird-ing, it's gonna be fun. But we can ignore these changes to OU for now, since Decidueye will not be there. I like it well enough and chose it as a starter, but it has issues. Want to go offensive? Decidueye has some good attacking stats and a respectable movepool on both sides, plus access to the poorly-distributed Nasty Plot but...yeah, base 70 speed is no good, even if it is the fastest Gen VII starter. It even sucks in Trick Room. Okay, defensive maybe? Good Special Defense, okay HP, access to recovery...and poor Defense. Not spectacular. So what is Decidueye good at? Exactly what everyone's been saying: support.

    My set of choice would have to be defensive defogger (see: gars129's set, minus Long Reach) but there is some concern over using Decidueye versus Dhelmise. Personally, I like the sound of Dhelmise a bit better given that it can spin and spinblock simultaneously, plus triple-STAB and better Attack is always nice, but without recovery it'd need Wish passing to have any kind of longevity. Kinda makes you wish these two had access to Giga Drain and/or Horn Leech. As for Decidueye's ability to trap enemies, it's pretty useful in general but realistically I'm not sure it can wall enough of OU sufficiently to be effective. It does handle threats that have only Scald for offense though, and that's no small matter.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
  12. RedRaselom

    RedRaselom Member

    STAT:

    HP - Average.
    ATK - Above Average.
    DEF - Average
    SPATK - Above Average
    SPDEF - Above Average
    SPD - Death Zone

    Verdict: Too slow to sweep, too frail to tank and/or set-up, too fast for trick room

    + Considering the existence of Baneful Banker and popularity of Toxapex (An annoying piece of ****), Long Range helps you keep healthy and kicking, considering most of his moves make contact like Leaf Blade, Sucker Punch, Brave Bird, U-Turn.
    + 4 Resistances, 2 Immunities
    + Cool design

    - Long Range is still illegal.
    - Stat-wise and movepool-wise, Decidueye is a major-major disappointment. Possibly, the most useless grass starter, since Meganium is bulky enough to set-up dual screen.
    - All weaknesses are pretty common.

    Tier: Possibly, NU.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  13. kykyan123

    kykyan123 Master forum reader

    I have made a new and revised stratagey.
    Championship format 2017
    Decidue holding a Decium Z
    A neutral nature, it had low stats, so It needs them all
    Max attack and special attack and the rest hp
    Pairs great with Pokémon that can get rid of fire types during sunny wheather
    Spirit Shackle- use it on Pokémon Decidue can K.O. and is needed for it's Z-move
    Sunny wheather- you can use solar beam in one turn
    Solar beam- it has some massive stab damage and can be used in one turn with sunny wheather
    Synthesis- with sunny wheather, you will heal more damage
    Z-move- Sinister Arrow Raid- try to use it at times where it will be super effective

    Another option is brave bird
     
  14. Karxrida

    Karxrida Lost in the Waves

    Decidueye has respectable Special bulk, a decent defensive typing, and access to Roost and Synthesis. It can definitely be an adequate tank. Its Speed also gives it a decently slow U-turn to help frail teammates get in without being molasses slow.

    Baneful Bunker is bad. Toxapex is unable to capitalize on it because it's not like Aegislash with Stance Change shenanigans to force the opponent to attack, plus it would rather fish for Scald burns or inflict Toxic Posion over inflicting regular Poison. Besides, its main weaknesses are types that use indirect attacks. Toxapex only needs Haze (which it should be running) and Toxic to win against every Decidueye variant.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  15. StreetFlare

    StreetFlare Master of Flame

    VGC 2017 - Not the set you are looking for.

    OK, I'll be totally honest, there's a few issues with this set.

    Firstly, Decidueye is a little lackluster with the realm of VGC. Sure, there's no threat of Megas in VGC '17, but that hardly means that Decidueye is in a good place as a Grass-type in there. While your set could work, it has almost no coverage, and it relies on Decidueye setting up weather itself. As many other users here have said, Decidueye doesn't have the speed to it's name in order to set anything up. Secondly, running Sunny Day on a Z-move set is a bad play; since you lose the benefit of the Heat Rock extension. You could open that move up by running Decidueye alongside Torkoal for the Drought-boost.

    Next issue is the larger one - the Neutral nature. Yes, Decidueye has rather poor stats. As somebody who ran Golduck in VGC '13, I have a lot of empathy for doubles sets running Pokemon viewed as poor. But, in my case, I'd be looking at running Decidueye with an Adamant nature. Jolly wouldn't redeem it's speed enough to warrant running it. Sure, he's got good base Sp. Attack, but splitting EVs and running a Neutral nature just for Solar Beam, especially when his Z-move is purely Physical... I dunno, man. Doesn't exactly seem right to me. I'd probably run, as many people have suggested, Leaf Blade over Solar Beam.

    I don't know why you would be running the poor Owl in doubles when you could be running Lurantis, Dhelmise, Whimsicott... there's lots of other Grass types available to you this gen. Lurantis especially is a far better Pokemon for this kind of role since it has access to Contrary, making Intimidate a terrible idea against it; Solar Blade for huge Physical damage while under Sun, better Trick Room speed stats... sure, it's got an equally terrible movepool; but it fills the same role you suggest.

    In all honesty, I don't know how I'd run Decidueye. Probably, as some people have suggested, I'd be using him as a pivot point and cleanup fighter. U-Turn, Spirit Shackle, Leaf Blade and Protect, since he's big double-target fodder as it is. I'm just saying, I don't think he's going to be VGC quality. Or OU outside of a defog-trapping set.

    Maybe in lower-tiers it could work with a trapping set? Spirit Shackle doesn't have a DoT effect like Fire Spin or Whirlpool, but it's got that, Toxic/Curse, Roost and Fly for stall. It's a terrible set; I know, but it's a gimmick that might go for it.
     
  16. Italianbaptist

    Italianbaptist Informed Casual

    Hopefully this is the right thread to ask this because it is POTW related, but I have a couple questions about the process and the start of a new gen seems like a good time to ask.

    1) How relevant were last gens' POTW articles to the VGC rules at the time?

    2) If little, will these articles have a section or something in it relevant to the VGC? Just the switch to doubles format might make Decidueye miles more or less useful but idk if all the nuances of VGC (ex: Alola dex only, level 50 cap) are covered in just a doubles section.
     
  17. Azulart

    Azulart Shiny Hunter

    [​IMG]
    Decidueye @ Flyziunium
    Ability: Long reach / overgrow (Long reach not legal yet, otherwise best abillity for this set )
    Nature: Jolly
    First set EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 94 SpD / 124 Speed
    Second set EV's: 252 HP / 40 Def / 142 Spd / 76 Speed
    - Spirit Shackle
    - Z-Feather Dance
    - Z-Brave bird - Leaf blade
    - Baton Pass

    Background

    A little bit out of the box set for Decidueye, a pokemon hard to make sets for atleast, I had alot of struggle making an unique decidueye set since its gets competition from
    Dhelmise, Treventant and Gourgeist.. Funny enough all ATK pokemon. So what makes him mostly diffrent from the others? Ofcourse its Signature move combined with Baton pass which reminded me of Umbreon sets in gen4 but also acces to Flying moves makes him unqiue, so lets figure something out to make this work and so here is the set.

    Set description

    Okay so first this set is meant for Singles and requires good prediction because your game with this set is to use Spirit Shackle and Z-featherdance to lower the opponent attack by 2 and you get a Defence Buff which is great to compensate Decidueye's average defence.. Now if your opponent decides to stay in the game is in your bag most likely and you use Baton pass to give that +1 defence to one of your teamates, while he remains stuck with the -2 attack.

    I personally use Calm mind Drampa for this and he can set tons of calm minds and Roost of the minor damage that is taken, eventually activating Berserk now and then which is great.

    As for the coverage move, thats personal preference, sinces Z-brave bird hits hard and is usefull if Featherdance is not usefull at all.
    Leaf blade is a second stab and also very viable on him.

    EV description

    First set is to outspeed both Jolly Marowak and Bulky uninvested Arcanine while dumping the others EV's in Sp.def because you have Feather dance.

    Second set is able to outspeed Jolly Marowak and gets more Sp.def bulk, so if you dont mind bulky arcanine which is a good Z-featherdance bait then this set should be used.

    Conclusion

    Gimmicky set, but its very out-of-the-box thinking in my opnion makes best use of Decidueye uniques features as Ghost-grass with Flying moves and Spirit Shackle-Baton pass combo.
    Any offensive sets are kinda outclassed by its counter typings (Most likely Dhelmise) in my opinion.. so yeah, hope this set is worth a slight mention in the OP.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  18. kykyan123

    kykyan123 Master forum reader

    I got to admire that VGC strategy of yours, because your right! Decidueye is really not going to be to good. I may seem a bit weak when it comes to strategy making, but I think I'm OK when comes to K.O.ing Pokémon using another person's strategy. I'll try my best to make strategy that aren't too bad for some one who's new to making strategys. I hope to be able to impress you with my strategys some day StreetFlare!
     
  19. ampfire101

    ampfire101 Well-Known Member

    Just wanted to say that on the website, under the new abilities page, Comatose doesn't have the description of the ability, it has Komala's Pokedex entry. Anyway, once the starter hidden abilities are released, maybe Decidueye can do something, so here is a VGC set for when we get our hands on Long Reach.

    I don't give a Robin Hoot
    -Spirit Shackle
    -Leaf Blade
    -Protect
    -Sucker Punch/HP Ice/HP Ground/U-Turn/Curse
    Ability: Long Reach
    Item: Focus Sash/Decidium Z
    Nature: Jolly/Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk, 4 SpA, 252 Spe
    Alright this is kinda a run of the mill set, but it's not much to work with, even with Long Reach. The best it does is avoid Rocky Helmet, Garchomp's Rough skin, and Togedemaru's Iron Barbs, which is good if you wanna run Focus Sash, or actually it's just better to have more health than less health period. Spirit Shackle and Leaf Blade are for STAB, Protect is Protect, and the last slot is kinda a toss up. Sucker Punch is good to pick off weakened threats and provides a form of priority. HP Ice is for Garchomp, HP Ground is for Nihilego and Togedemaru, U-Turn is for some decent slow pivoting, and Curse is a last ditch resort to hinder the opponent or force a switch (I would LOVE getting Curse up on Celesteela when there are only two pokes left on the opponent's side). There are still many things that counter this that more than outweigh Decidueye's usefulness in VGC. Truly a shame
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2016
  20. Razor Shiftry

    Razor Shiftry Cynthia = Porn Star

    The key thing to remember is that Decidueye is not designed to be the star of the show. Its there to trap, support and bulky pivot. So much potential mind games madness.

    so for those trying to make an attacker out of him - just stop. There are so many Pokemon who can do it better and with a better type combination.

    What has he got going for him? Spirit Shackle, Self healing and being able to spin block AND hazard clear. Those, in combination with U-turn that doesn't physically touch his opponent allows for some glorious mind games. I.E. Switch in on a resist. Then your opponent has 3/4 choices. Will he defog? Will he trap me? will be just u-turn from my counter? or maybe trap my counter and then U-turn out to another trapper? (because steels stop him full stop...)

    Decidueye is a complex pokemon to use and it's pretty hard at this stage to give him a stat spread when the 7th Gen is so new we don't know which threats he needs to outspeed and u-turn away from. I think its going to be a while before we can really see his full potential but he's definitely a pokemon to keep an eye on...
     
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