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Companion Pokémon: Downfall?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by KingMinun, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. Kintaro

    Kintaro Banned

    I always wondered why she didn't get Poliwag back in Kanto. Kanto oddly enough has no filler for the Poliwag line at all. They should have her Misty get it back then, use it as her main battler, etc. Instead she really only had Staryu that couldn't develop because it had no personality and couldn't evolve either because she already had a Starmie.

    Poliwag was the closest thing Misty had to a pokemon that developed naturally over the course of her run, even if Politoed didn't do much by the end of Johto but cheer.
     
  2. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Yeah nearly all her Pokemon were utterly stagnant or only got development AFTER her series run was over (five seasons of Togepi and Psyduck being one note comic relief and then they get more justice in one return episode).
     
  3. Kintaro

    Kintaro Banned

    They also could have evolved Togepi in mid-Johto, it wasn't needed as GS advertisement after Johto started. We could have seen Togetic on her party instead of just evolving after she left to be released.

    Besides that, most of the other main characters get water pokemon, like Ash with Squirtle/Kingler/Greninja/Buizel/Corphish/Totodile, May's Squirtle, Dawn's Piplup, Brock's Mudkip, now Lana's starter etc. that it made it seem like nothing Misty's water pokemon did was anything unique or special compared to what everyone else did with their water pokemon. If you have a water specialist on the cast, they should have shown Misty do unique things with her water pokemon that others couldn't do with theirs, instead there was no difference. Even Dawn's Piplup has far more amazing feats as a water pokemon than Misty's entire team.
     
  4. Leonhart

    Leonhart Well-Known Member

    My point was that her normal team became reserves once she returned to the Hanada Gym and got Gyarados.
     
  5. LilligantLewis

    LilligantLewis primarina donna

    It's actually nuts when you consider that not only Togetic, but multiple other Gen II Pokémon, didn't even debut until Gen III!!! What a giant mess they made of the Johto anime! How do you have that many fillers and not even debut all your Pokémon?

    Togetic, Typhlosion, Flaaffy..

    I mean, how does Blaziken debut before Typhlosion?!? What a joke!

    And instead they were obsessed with having TWO separate PIDGEY fillers.
     
  6. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Yeah type specialists recurrently have this problem, they either get outshone or don't really do a much more remarkable job than Ash does with the same typing, or end up diverging completely from their type.

    Lana's another less than remarkable water specialist, only having one Pokemon and that one not being especially noteworthy in role besides getting a Z Move (and using it the least out of all the main trainers). She doesn't even have the excuse of Ash having a water type outshining her this series.

    I think Kiawe's about the nearest to a successful type specialist that's not relied too much on either divergence or 'cutting the tall poppies'. Ash has the Fire starter to compete with in fact, but, aside from only capturing one new Pokemon in his run so far, Kiawe's fire type Pokemon still feel memorable and have some decent spotlight both as utilities/battlers and comic relief. Plus he was allowed the fire specialist gimmicks of the respective gen (Firium Z and the Charizard Ride Pokemon) and unlike Lana, he does actually make use of them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  7. Kintaro

    Kintaro Banned

    Well they had Typlosion debut in the Raikou special, so they counted that as it's episode. Flaafy was also in Movie 3.
     
  8. LilligantLewis

    LilligantLewis primarina donna

    Still unacceptable for Ash to not see them.
     
  9. ash&charizardfan

    ash&charizardfan Humanity's greatest soldier

    Irony is blaziken which was a introduced a gen later pokemon got its main anime debut before a gen 2 typhlosion, just got to show how shafted gen 2 fully evolved starters were, still think ash should have evolved his cyndaquil.
     
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  10. Satoshi & Touko

    Satoshi & Touko Glimwood Tangle is Literal Dreamland

    I don’t really “invest” in any character or their Pokemon at all. I still don’t feel there is a good reason to.
     
  11. ash&charizardfan

    ash&charizardfan Humanity's greatest soldier

    Not your fault, its hard to get invested in the characters who are bound to faill and then leave the show into oblivion, same with ash he has failed to many times to even care about his league anymore, just watch the show for storyline, battle quality, pokemon personality that's it.
     
    Satoshi & Touko likes this.
  12. Satoshi & Touko

    Satoshi & Touko Glimwood Tangle is Literal Dreamland

    And character personality, since I tend to like a character more for who they are.

    Otherwise, exactly, exactly, exactly!
     
  13. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    I think SM got the right idea of making things more personality focused with goals and villain-thwarting more a side agenda (even if some characters could use them a bit more to help with substance). I don't feel like they're making a futile or forgone quest the main attraction, which after a while drives apathy (especially since even the method HOW they got to the last roadblock before losing slowly became more mechanical).

    The problem with Ash and his team in some earlier series was that they were so goal centric, it was emphasis on what badass battle machines they were and how they were SO gonna win the league, and being kinda bland besides that. SM Ash and his team have moments but a lot time is put into personality and interactions. Even if Lycanroc doesn't win the league for Ash, I don't think his character arc will feel like as much of a Shaggy Dog Story as it did with, say, Greninja.

    (Heh, heh, Shaggy Dog...) :p
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
    FlygontheRavager likes this.
  14. p96822

    p96822 Evolve me please

    Even though Ash's Alolan Pokemon have personality, but I feel like I don't care for them as much because they don't a same type of drive or goal to make them interesting. Because of them having a less driven goal it make me root for them much less. Personalitiy mean bearly anything when they are battling
     
    SH65 likes this.
  15. MockingJ

    MockingJ Banned

    I don't either since Pikachu's the only Pokemon in the cast that will always be around, but even he gets weak when the plot demands it which makes his growth seem insignificant.
     
  16. AznKei

    AznKei Badass girls saving their boyfriends. XD

    The show nowadays is more about marketing than putting more depth for the characters. Sure, there's some episodes with character developments but they're just not enough when taking account with the overall number of episodes for the whole show/series imo. Oh well, I guess we're stuck with fanfictions if we want to care about our favorite characters.
     
  17. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Truthfully I'm a guy who can watch cartoons that are nothing but characters fooling around and being entertaining (eg. Winnie the Pooh). I get many don't see that as what the Pokemon anime is about, but the excess goal focus in previous series like XY over the characters actually driving any of the story left me apathetic. I feel like you should make me care about the character first before you 'progress' them through the plot, and it is better to have them progressing it.

    I actually think Ash is less of a cheap marketing tool in SM because they actually bother with his personality and making it broad it enough to tell full stories, not just a stock protagonist who gets the most popular Pokemon in the current games and is SO gonna win the league this time.
     
    FlygontheRavager likes this.
  18. blizzardblaze

    blizzardblaze Comp. Battler Who loves The Anime

    Unfortunately, Ash exchanges his interesting strats in battle for this personality
     
  19. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Besides forcing in a Z Move at the end of every battle, I think his battling is good enough to keep it in check, if admittedly not his absolute best. If anything I'm more invested because his Pokemon vent personality into their battles this time.

    I also like he can solve problems without battling in this series. He couldn't really handle any situation more complicated than electrocuting Team Rocket in previous series, but here he can be rather eccentric and clever, sometimes even without using his Pokemon.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
    FlygontheRavager likes this.
  20. pokemon fan 132

    pokemon fan 132 Well-Known Member

    When you see current companions having one or two pokemon at best in their entire team than its obvious how writers standards got lowered when it comes for Ash traveling companions. And watching Sun and MOon series I feel Lana, Mallow, Lillie, even Kiawe deserves better, because lack of captures hampers on their potential and ability to develop when it comes to their trainer growth.Whole trend of reducing Ash friends pokemon team size to significantly small numbers started with BW , jut to see XYZ in Serena case and afterwards now SM taking whole new step in not giving them more than one pokemon to work with.

    Some will say its quality over quantity that matters. But that don't holds truth in case of their battling abilities and proactive usefulness when having to battle villains, other trainers, wild pokemon and enter rescue missions. Hurting ALOT their chances to join Ash in saving day, get more growth themselves and send message to viewers of being more than just cheerleading support.

    Thasts not to say their pokemon of what they have don't have any impressive feats, but sheer fact of having underdeveloped pokemon teams actually do hurts their possibilities of being more active in longer run.

    May and Dawn didn't suffered from this issue because they had well established respectable number of pokemon in their arsenal adding to entertainment value and their validity as pokemon battlers/coordinators.

    This applies as well to Brock and especially Misty.

    People can dump on her pokemon team all they want. But having more pokemon was beneficial in lot of other areas often overlooked. It gave in Misty case bigger variety to her team, more muscle to her trainer career, supported her credibility as pokemon battler. And allowed for rather proactive role in often being able to take initiative and join others in battling criminals or saving others. Even when episodes weren't about her. Adding another reason for people to find appeal in character and got invested into her.


    Now don't get me wrong, i wasn't satisfied with how many of them were handled. But i still recognized in them potential and entertainment value. Appreciating Ash earlier traveling companions having bigger pokemon teams.

    Because more pokemon someone has bigger chances there are to see human character be more active, get more development from interacting with their teram. And helping them in reaching their dreams easier. With each and every one of them carrying potential to blossom eventually. And this still is valid in these companions less developed members of their team.

    Not all though. Psyduck was among Misty most exposed pokemon adding to lot of humorous moments and over course of series it played important role in Misty development on field of starting to get over her initial feelings growing to appreciate what she has. Staryu was one of Misty best and strongest pokemon entering many battles and being her go to pokemon.
    Some will say it had no character but to be fair with lack of anthropomorphic features due to design represented huge challenge to animate its emotions. In general every pokemon we can objectively assume has personality and feelings, I mean Misty herself on multiple occasions said how she knows how Staryu feels with certain moments like battle for Totodile displaying strong bond existing between such pokemon and its trainer. BUt some its more challenging to express that than others and that is understandable.

    Corsola came later but its feats in Whirl Islands and afterwards defeating several strong pokemon like Espeon, Mantine in Coastline gym, Delcaty, etc and being rather very vivid was example of decently handled pokemon given its short run. Politoad was probably most developed pokemon in character sense, while Gyarados don't need explanation becoming her powerhouse.

    Starmie and Horsea sadly were left at Cerulean too early in series never living up to their potential and Goldeen along with Togepi were obviously mishandled. In retrospective Goldeen being aquatic specie was not even problem, Orange Islands were heavily water based, so were Whirl islands and Johto was filled with lakes, rivers etc. So logistically this pokemon could have been used a lot more often but I guess writers preferred to rather stick to amphibious types instead.

    Luvdisc and Azurill appeared only in one or two episodes respectively not having enough time to be developed and utilized in more significant manner. But ill say this Luvdisc due to fact of defeating Mightiena and Sableye from Butch and Cassidy proved one thing, it can battle and in fairly effective manner. Unlike its case in games with anime displaying that specie in better light.

    In nutshell Misty pokemon team had quite a few gems but since many feats occurred in Johto saga(some afterwards but people don't take that in account despite being unfair and incomplete analysis than) its often overlooked due to bad reputation of series among fans as whole.
     

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