M
eaning we are at standstill with debate running in circles. And for record I watched DP and XYZ and i still prefer OS due to having better humor, were closer to real life situations in plots and storylines being more realistic, group had best chemistry, pokemon anime felt more independent in creating its outlets and avenues different from games etc.
That's not to say I did not appreciated improvements in DP and at least in XYZ case Ash growth as trainer. But those sagas never delivered for me same amount of fun as i experienced when watching Kanto, Orange Islands and Johto.
So you can't sell me argument of being one of those guys new generations of fans like to discredit as "blinded by nostalgia oldies". Because i watched all pokemon sagas and still am recognizing elements OS had which newer pokemon regions never quite managed to catch well enough.
Speaking of Dawn i never denied she impacted Ash battling style but that doesn't mean she helped more than anyone else in Ash growth , as well statement of Misty not having impact on Ash as person and trainer not being true in slightest being something i cannot agree with at all.
Because it was Misty who criticized Ash of trying to catch pokemon without weakening it like he did with Sparrow. Misty actually taught Ash how vs rock and ground types water specie is good. Misty for Kanto league warned Ash that his laziness will backfire on him forcing him to train his pokemon. She was one who motivated Ash and mentored after his league loss how instead of self pity himself its time to get up and try better next time.
Misty actually often warned Ash not to be gullible falling for other people traps like TR putting tempting things on road.
Misty pointed out to Ash when his pokemon were in bad shape klike Pikachu suggesting to take him to doctor. Pointed out how sending Phanpy vs Dewgong would be mistake. Or criticizing Ash for underestimating his opponents like boy with Skiplum. Her encouragement, support and motivation she delivered helped Ash became more humble and aware of his limitations, Compared to arrogant and overconfident nature he displayed in early days.
Ash himself admitted how it was Brock and Misty merit to go that far as he did in Johto league, knowing he wouldn't get that far if he didn't had their support, mentorship and advices by his side.
You say Ash often tried to do opposite of what Misty taught him, but how many times did that backfired causing him to lose and embarrass himself? And afterwards Ash would quickly realize he was wring accepting what Misty told him with competitive flare and back and forth arguing going between him and Misty. Having friendly rivalry in liking to outsmart each other helped Ash to have someone who would push him forward to think outside bo on gym matches, come up with new use of pokemon and try harder when training and battling with pokemon.
And Misty wise comments and common sense helped Ash to get more aware of TR tricks, not to judge opponents so easily labeling them as weak. With Misty greatest help coming from making Ash to become more humble and experienced as person and trainer.
Sure Dawn inspired Ash to utilize some of contest techniques in his battling moves. But thats where her direct influence on Ash stops. Providing cheering and support which all other girls did.
So in reality taking everything in account Misty and Brock influenced Ash far more than anyone else because when he was rookie and inexperienced trainer he needed help the most.
You say Misty developed least out of all girls but your judging growth solely by how much someone goal was explored and how many arc centered about him/her existed in story, ignoring characterization evolution
Character development contrary to widespread belief does not consist only of how much someone goal was fleshed out. How much character focus episodes girls received, since very often many of girls in pokemon series received moments of learning on their mistakes and getting insight in their desires and past in episodes where they shared focus with someone else or were not main stars of those same episodes.
Most importantly character development is not measured by how much screen time girl received, but in how effectively screen time she received was utilized and on what level her personality, ideals, communication with others etc was played out and changed leaving effect on her.
So clear cut ranking is not even possible. Because Dawn for example had most development regarding her career and goal of becoming top coordinator getting out of Johanna shadow. But how much her character based on all hardships, challenges and involvement of new friends in her life changed? Maturing, growing, getting new layers to already from before established characterization? Answer is very little honestly.
Developing less in persona sense than some other girls.
Misty on other hand is viewed as "least developed main girl" according to serebii fandom. Because her dream of becoming water pokemon master wasn't focused on a lot accompanied with not receiving enough screen time.
But how much Misty in personality and character sense over time gradually evolved and developed? How much persons like Ash, Brock, Togepi influenced her behavior. How she coped with fears, phobias, self doubts and conflicts going inside her character developing new traits to her characterization, revealing new sides to her personality and all kind of experiences she had during travels and later at Cerulean had caused her to grow in person she is nowadays?
Because comparing Misty from early Kanto and Misty in Hoenn or latest Alola saga. There exists clear difference being undeniable this character developed ALOT in personality sense.
You say Misty development outside of Whirl Cup was non existent ignoring countless episodes introspecting her inner feelings, episodes where she caught pokemon or they evolved. Ignoring times she was coping with inferiority complex or battling others to prove herself?
You say Misty didn't had any memorable episodes in OS? I beg to differ. Episodes from Kanto for example such as "Princess vs Princess!", "Misty Mermaid!", from Orange Islands such as "Misty meets her Match!" or Stun Spore Detour!", from Johto such as "For Crying Out Loud!" or "Forest Grumps!", "Battle for Totodile!" were some of best episodes focusing on Misty character and heavily liked and remembered by generations of fans. I could list numerous other examples where Misty either played central role or shared focus with someone else while learning new things herself. With you sir being mistaken of Misty development not existing outside of Whirl Cup, having just "forgettable fillers".
Because on contrary she had several episodes dealing with her storyline or where her agendas and plans come on daylight. Despite not having such big arcs like Dawn for example did.
And frankly she did not need to being able to shine, be active and contribute to pokemon storyline without that.
Most fans your referring to would only agree with you on Misty treatment in middle of Johto, but at start before GS ball got dropped and in Master Quest general consensus was how Misty was recovered being out back on right track. Because Master Quest gave lot of development to Misty during Whirl Islands, challenging other trainers like Dorian, exploring on her love for water types when bonding with hotheaded trainer Egan, giving closure to her complex of inferiority imposed by older sibli9ngs, evolved her Poliwhirl, gave her new pokemon Corsola, built on relationship with new characters such as Sakura who would become ongoing supporter etc.
So honestly no Misty was not "background in 5th season!".
Bringing me to next point: Anyone who thinks Misty didn't advanced plot or influenced storyline in OS should rewatch anime again.
As well not realizing how OS followed entirely different standards where pokemon message was supposed to be about big adventure with recognizable group of main characters which evolve through course of journey, take their friendship to deeper level of meaning and work on achieving their dreams individually
Misty role in OS was to play supporting role to Ash helping him canalize his growth as trainer through coach and mentor role she played. Helping him ALOT when he was inexperienced rookie to stand on his feet and learn from mistakes.
Misty through her flamboyant nature, sarcasm and girly characteristics hidden under rough exterior of hers added to pokemon anime lot of identity, charm and stability through her unique dreams of trying to master water specie and reach E4 level. Through her quirks and various escapades balancing out between Ash overconfidence and Brock obsession with different gender stabilizing things up.
Misty actually through various episodes directly influenced storyline. Such as saving Porta Vista city under invasion of Tentacruel.
-saving Ash life in second movie or in OI
-freeing trapped pokemon by playing detective role in exposing Butch and Cassidy plan or coming to conclusion how was stolen Phanphy egg in Johto and who stole it
-played role in stopping TR in Lugia and Red Gyarados incident, through supporting role
-saved group life by knowing blue prints of ST. Anne ship leading rescue mission
- came up with idea how through Hoot Hoot help find way out of forest getting to first gym
-exposed TR numerous plans seeing through their masks and plans such as in episode where Brock wanted to get married preventing them to steal other pokemon
-helped Ash to prepare his pokemon team before match vs Macy
-came up with plan how to transport Snorlax from island preventing that whole place gets desolated through its huge appetite
Etc etc, being much more active than she' given credit for.,
Just because it didn't happened through tournaments or contests does not mean Misty was useless not contruibut8ing to pokemon anime, influencing other characters and plot. Because that couldn't be further from true.
Misty and Ash had in no way weaker bond than Dawn had with him.Their constant bickering and arguing was always fun to watch being interesting to see change in relationship between them over time.Misty toned down abit on her aggressive side becoming more teaseful/sarcastic in friendly manner.She also developed more tolerance toward Ash and her friends becoming more supportive and understanding with both characters becoming able to get over their difference developing strong friendship.
You could notice in departure episode how upset Misty was about having to leave Ash and Brock caring about her friends a lot. Having highly close friendship and as duo delivering lot of entertaining atmosphere to pokemon show.
Lastly when talking about football your clearly using double standards. When England ir Argentina lost vs Croatia you pin that to "being cheated by judges", how they had bad day", "weak teams, coach made mistakes" etc.
But when Croatia lost vs any of them you label it as "their football team being weak and incompetent".
Excises you provided behind England, Argentina, Spain etc loses are laughable. Croatia football team simply outplayed them using open chances efficiently, something opposing teams failed to do. Croatia team reached finals of world cup through hard work and smart play not being given anything. Their players playing in big clubs was result of their talent and competence displayed with our football team showing how they have skill, knowledge and can go head to head vs best representations out there. Making name for themselves as much as it bothers some it seems.
As for what Takeshi Shudo said. . He only stated how he regrets for Misty not being given bigger role and how he should have done more with character not being explored in story as much as she could've been ending unfinished.
But he never apologized for Misty existence in this show, nor his words reflect opinions from every other writer.
Like i said before. Opinion of one writer who stopped doing series construction way back in middle of Johto doesn't represent opinions from all members of writing staff. Shudo himself clearly said in his novelizations and blogs how he often got into quarrels with director and other writers. Showing how not all writers shared same view as he did about character and even though mr. Shudo (rest in peace)didn't favored Misty in end he regretted in his blogs for not strengthening her role and giving character more focus realizing how there was left more to be done ending unfinished and unexplored in many fields.
With other writers never expressing how they felt about Misty character, not knowing whole background behind this and if she was liked by rest of writing staff.
Speaking of shipping again what's happening now is completely irrelevant. Fact of the matter is that crush from Misty side existed in Johto as well, with last episode and episodes before that in tail end such as when meeting Macy proving otherwise. As well chronicles and when Misty was asked on date in episode "A Date with Delcatty!" Misty confirming how she still holds feeling for if we go by educated guess Ash. With that sublot even after Johto still showing signs to be alive, due to writers still not being sure if Misty will ever return as major character to pokemon again or not.
No one is arguing how nowadays that subplot is abandoned with writers not pushing anymore whole concept of romantic affection going between Misty and main protagonist Ash. But to say how in Johto and to smaller degree in AG Misty feelings didn't existed anymore would be completely false to say.
You say Serena was better developed than Misty? Depends on what area of development your talking about.
For first 40 episodes Serena had basically nothing being least focused female companion in such a large number of episodes in history of pokemon show. Whole pokemon performance goal seemed like afterthought quickly patched together to make it seem like her journey and character are moving somewhere.
Serena rivalries with characters like Shauna were badly handled t being always one step ahead from every other competition. With little to no effort coming almost at sole top.
Her pokemon team aside from Braixen was underdeveloped, especially Pancham and to some degree Sylveon.
And driving force behind her character, whole crush thing was completely one sided not going anywhere in end.
With abandonment oi pokemon performing happening on a whim to try out contests saying alot about how poorly Serena exit from anime was done.
As for Dawn i stand by what i said, in relationship with others and characterization, personality growth Dawn changed and developed less than May and Misty.
By well rounded im referring to writers investing more in Misty as trainer in pokemon department due to catching and acquiring much more pokemon than Iris, Serena and especially SM girls have. Sure aside from Psyduck, Politoad, Corsola and Gyarados most didn't went through much or any development with their personalities not being fleshed out. However collection of both amphibious and aquatic specie gave Misty as pokemon trainer more breathing room in having diversity and more muscle to maneuver in her battle choices and future events she would held. Supporting her infrastructure as pokemon water specialist better than in Iris case. Who has only 2 dragons in total having long way to go.
As well most of Misty water pokemon displaying decent or even impressive battling abilities such as Corsola and especially Staryu did compensating for lack of growth through interesting battle abilities, agility, unique features they possess individually as specie, in often saving other people and pokemon from dangerous situations .
With simple fact of diverse and bigger team in Misty case giving her just like as May and Dawn had more potential and stability in her future goal and development path.
Interactions between pokemon are not everything with there being much more to them justifying in Misty case having bigger team.
To conclude for sake of debate we have two options in here. Either we will continue beating dead horse going in circles because i do not agree with you at all, or we just have to accept with respect that we do not see eye to eye on this subject leaving it at that.
