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Competitive Single Rates (5th Gen Standard OU) - READ FIRST POST

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C

ChaosBlizzard

Crit Happens.
Gardevoir actually isn't too terribly fragile. Her only real problems are her typing and her Defense, but she's fairly bulky on the Special Defensive side. If you use her carefully, she'll be fine.

Here's the thing though, you've already trained "Serenade" (cool name btw), and that can't be changed now. I'm trying to work within your existing framework. Gardevoir is a vastly superior Wish passer or status platform than she is sweeper. But if you're going to run her as a sweeper, then the Life Orb is the best way to go. Another option would be the Leftovers, which could help her while she sets up her Calm Minds, but at that point she's already half way to being a supporter anyway. My advise would be to not run her as a sweeper in the first place, but that would require you to get a whole new one and retrain it; if you want to use the one you've got, this is the route you should go.
 
D

Doctor Quark

Jack of All Trades
Alright then, thank you. I'll just work with what I've got, then, since I couldn't really imagine dropping Serenade to train a new Gardevoir. I really appreciate your suggestions, and hopefully I'll get used to the whole competitive battling thing soon. I might need to return to this board, soon.
 
D

D-World

Robo-Cascoon's angry
My new lead for the subway singles.

Druddigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def
Nature: Adamant
-Dragon Tail
-Fire Fang
-Glare
-Substitute/ Hone Claws

*This may seem an odd set to you, but it works. Druddigon has some very nice base 90 defences, meaning it can survive a few hits and find the opponent's pokémon. This is very nice because my opponents in the subway seem to have a sort of mind and can figure out which pokémon will be the most annoying against my current pokémon. So Dragon Tail is there as a succesful means of forcing a switch. Fire Fang gives Druddigon perfect coverage and gets a Sheer Force boost, Glare is a good way to throw out Status whilst I'm forcing switches, Substitute means I don't have to fear losing too much damage through critical hits or status, and Hone Claws means I can get accurate hits with Dragon Tail and Glare aswell as boosting my attack.*
 
C

ChaosBlizzard

Crit Happens.
107.png

Hitmonchan @ Life Orb
Nature: Adamant / Jolly
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Attack / 252 Speed / 4 Defense
-Mach Punch / Sky Uppercut / Hi Jump Kick
-Fire Punch
-Ice Punch
-Stone Edge

Let me explain a couple of things. First of all, Hitmonchan has typically fallen anywhere from UU to NU over the years; this Hitmonchan would be used on a generally speaking OU team, against other OU Pokemon. Secondly, he would be filling a small hole within the team that would require him to have moves of the types Fighting-Fire-Ice-Rock, hence the unusual moveset. He is specifically filling a niche, I'm not just throwing random moves together.

There are two things I'm unsure of. First is Adamant vs Jolly. Hitmonchan has slightly below average Speed, base 76. Not the slowest thing in the world, but not too fast either. Typically he boosts it with Agility, but this one gets no such luxury without cutting one of his moves. I'm not sure if the speed boost from Jolly would actually let him outspeed anything of significance, so please advise me on this point. Adamant gets him to 251 and Jolly gets him to 276. Second is his Fighting move. Mach Punch overcomes his speed problem, and is boosted by Iron Fist (base 48, up from 40), but isn't terribly strong; HJK, the holy grail of Fighting moves this generation, is very powerful, but is not boosted by Iron Fist, and if it misses, will pretty much cripple him; Sky Uppercut takes a middle of the road path, losing out on the priority of Mach Punch and the ridiculous strength of HJK, but also giving him more power than Mach Punch and no threat of recoil like HJK. Sky Uppercut would also get an Iron Fist boost, reaching a very respectable base power of 102, up from 85.

I'm not particularly looking for a critique of the set or a way to change it. I want to know, as is, if it would be viable, because honestly, if I were to change anything about it significantly, it wouldn't fill the hole in the team and I would just use something else entirely. I just want advise on Adamant vs Jolly, Mach Punch vs Sky Uppercut vs HJK, and I want to know if this fairly slow, typically UU Pokemon would be viable in OU.
 
S

spuds4ever

Well-Known Member
I've been thinking about a defensive salamence. I was wondering if this would work.

Salamence @leftovers
Impish (-sp. atk +def) or Careful (-sp. atk +sp. def)
EVs: 252 HP 128 def 124 sp. def
Defog
Roost
Dragon claw
earthquake

Defog gets rid of spikes screens and SR. Roost makes him resistant to electric and only 2x weak to ice and no rock weakness as well as regaining health. Dragon claw for stab and earthquake for metals which aren't called Brozong or Skarmory. I was also considering swapping eq for dragon dance giving it potential to sweep.
 
D

D-World

Robo-Cascoon's angry
spuds4ever said:
I've been thinking about a defensive salamence. I was wondering if this would work.

Salamence @leftovers
Impish (-sp. atk +def) or Careful (-sp. atk +sp. def)
EVs: 252 HP 128 def 124 sp. def
Defog
Roost
Dragon claw
earthquake

Defog gets rid of spikes screens and SR. Roost makes him resistant to electric and only 2x weak to ice and no rock weakness as well as regaining health. Dragon claw for stab and earthquake for metals which aren't called Brozong or Skarmory. I was also considering swapping eq for dragon dance giving it potential to sweep.
Click to expand...

First of all, scratch Defog, I was fooled too, It only removes those things on your opponent's side, so basically your removing your own SR. The whole Roost thing is okay, but you have to keep in mind that it only lasts a turn, so for him to resist electric and not be weak to rock, you have to use Roost all the time. To be strictly honest. Salamence doesn't work as a defensive poké because so many things out there have tailored sets to check it.


Froslass @ Wise Glasses
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Sp. Atk/ 252 Spe
Nature: Timid/ Modest
-Ice Beam
-Shadow Ball
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power [Fire]/ Hidden Power [Fighting]/ Thunder Wave

*Though a lot of people use Froslass as a Spikes Lead, which she does well, alot of people ignore her impressive sweeping capabilities. She gets Boltbeam, with STAB Ice Beam, Shadow Ball as another very nice STAB, and then she can play any card she wants in the end. HP Fire gets rid of Steels like Ferrothorn and Scizor very easily, but HP Fighting does too and gives Froslass the Ghost/Fighting combo.*
 
M

Mayu808

GIGA DRILL BREAK!!!!
D-World said:
Froslass @ Wise Glasses
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Sp. Atk/ 252 Spe
Nature: Timid/ Modest
-Ice Beam
-Shadow Ball
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power [Fire]/ Hidden Power [Fighting]/ Thunder Wave

*Though a lot of people use Froslass as a Spikes Lead, which she does well, alot of people ignore her impressive sweeping capabilities. She gets Boltbeam, with STAB Ice Beam, Shadow Ball as another very nice STAB, and then she can play any card she wants in the end. HP Fire gets rid of Steels like Ferrothorn and Scizor very easily, but HP Fighting does too and gives Froslass the Ghost/Fighting combo.*
Click to expand...

Hmm... Interesting, never saw a sweeper frosslas but hey, I like out of the ordinary pokes and sets. Anyways, two things. First, maybe try a life orb since she's so frail anyways iirc, or use a scarf or specs to make her either a revenger or a heavy hit seeper. Lastly, use Hp fighting, I've always enjoyed the whole fighting+ghost/dark type coverage.
 
C

cheeselord

Largely Inactive
I think that froslass is begging for specs.
 
M

Mayu808

GIGA DRILL BREAK!!!!
ChaosBlizzard said:
107.png

Hitmonchan @ Life Orb
Nature: Adamant / Jolly
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Attack / 252 Speed / 4 Defense
-Mach Punch / Sky Uppercut / Hi Jump Kick
-Fire Punch
-Ice Punch
-Stone Edge

Let me explain a couple of things. First of all, Hitmonchan has typically fallen anywhere from UU to NU over the years; this Hitmonchan would be used on a generally speaking OU team, against other OU Pokemon. Secondly, he would be filling a small hole within the team that would require him to have moves of the types Fighting-Fire-Ice-Rock, hence the unusual moveset. He is specifically filling a niche, I'm not just throwing random moves together.

There are two things I'm unsure of. First is Adamant vs Jolly. Hitmonchan has slightly below average Speed, base 76. Not the slowest thing in the world, but not too fast either. Typically he boosts it with Agility, but this one gets no such luxury without cutting one of his moves. I'm not sure if the speed boost from Jolly would actually let him outspeed anything of significance, so please advise me on this point. Adamant gets him to 251 and Jolly gets him to 276. Second is his Fighting move. Mach Punch overcomes his speed problem, and is boosted by Iron Fist (base 48, up from 40), but isn't terribly strong; HJK, the holy grail of Fighting moves this generation, is very powerful, but is not boosted by Iron Fist, and if it misses, will pretty much cripple him; Sky Uppercut takes a middle of the road path, losing out on the priority of Mach Punch and the ridiculous strength of HJK, but also giving him more power than Mach Punch and no threat of recoil like HJK. Sky Uppercut would also get an Iron Fist boost, reaching a very respectable base power of 102, up from 85.

I'm not particularly looking for a critique of the set or a way to change it. I want to know, as is, if it would be viable, because honestly, if I were to change anything about it significantly, it wouldn't fill the hole in the team and I would just use something else entirely. I just want advise on Adamant vs Jolly, Mach Punch vs Sky Uppercut vs HJK, and I want to know if this fairly slow, typically UU Pokemon would be viable in OU.
Click to expand...

I like to believe that every Pokemon can be used in a higher tier if played correctly. The set you have looks pretty good, and I can't believe I forgot this guys has the requirements for your teams needed moves. I'd just like to suggest maybe using a scarf as its speed is not really good. Then, you may want to run sky uppercut or Mach punch so that even if a ghost switches on those moves you won't lose half you're health. Otherwise, Mach punch is just a great idea all around for STAB priority boosted by iron fist. High jump kick is a good idea without the scarf since life orb deals you damage anyways, why nit take a little more risk for a better reward. Overall, I think Mach punch is the best option. Oh, and in regards to the nature, I think adamant could be better since he's so slow to behind with, but you could run jolly to atleast hit max speed and outspeed the few pokes slower then it. Otherwise, adamant.
 
R

rhaine

Electrify
Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
Ev: 252 HP/100 Def/152 Sp. Def *I don't know if this one is good*
Nature: Calm(+sp. def - atk)/Bold(+def - atk)
Moveset:
Trick Room
Will o Wisp/Toxic
Shadow Ball/Hex
Hidden Power [Fighting]

Trick Room because its speed is really problematic. Will o Wisp has less accuracy compared to Toxic but will burn the opponent which affects their attacks (I think). Toxic can be a possible alternative for WoW. Hex increases damage if target has status problem that's why there is Wow and Toxic. Shadow Ball has more base power than Hex. HP [fighting] deals with Dark and Normal types

I don't think that this is good enough.
I'm open for suggestions to improve this :D
 
N

Ninja Dewott

Ice Cold Fire
rhaine said:
Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
Ev: 252 HP/100 Def/152 Sp. Def *I don't know if this one is good*
Nature: Bold
Moveset:
Calm Mind
Will o Wisp
Hex
Toxic

Trick Room because its speed is really problematic. Will o Wisp has less accuracy compared to Toxic but will burn the opponent which affects their attacks (I think). Toxic can be a possible alternative for WoW. Hex increases damage if target has status problem that's why there is Wow and Toxic. Shadow Ball has more base power than Hex. HP [fighting] deals with Dark and Normal types
Calm mind lets you set up so you can easily wall phsyical attackers too (a bold nature would therefore be better, as defense is not getting a boost) and trick room is not really needed. Will-o-wisp and toxic give you the ability to inflict status on anything that isn't called Heatran. After that you should be able to land big hits with hex. Another change would be to replace will-o-wisp/toxic with something like energy ball, this would be better in the long run, after you've set up with Calm Mind because you'll have more coverage, but in the short term, the opponent will find it easier to wall you.

I don't think that this is good enough.
I'm open for suggestions to improve this :D
Click to expand...
Changes and legnthy explanation are in bold :)
 
V

Vandslaux

Well-Known Member
Who's a better HydraResting Wish passer: Vaporeon or Alomomola? Vaporeon has better defenses, but Alomomola has slightly beefier Wishes.
 
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archeopsdan

Well-Known Member
ive looked at ramdom pokemon and found this:

;210; @choice scarf or life orb
intimidate, jolly
252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 Hp
-return
-earthquake
-outrage/brick break/stone edge/wild charge/crunch
-outrage/brick break/stone edge/wild charge/crunch
basically a sweeper/tanking pokemon which noone would see coming at them. return is stab, earthquake is obvious and the other moves provide coverage.
 
V

Vandslaux

Well-Known Member
OK, I can't put Rest on Alomomola. Whenever I try, it says it can't learn Karate Chop and freezes up. How to fix?

EDIT: Turns out, it says that for the third move.
 
C

cheeselord

Largely Inactive
You don't want rest and wish in the same set...
 
R

R4GEKILL!!!

Me So Thorny
A Douchebag LC poke: Evolite Mantyke
Mantyke-Evolite
Relaxed-Water Absorb
252 HP, 252 DEF, 4 SP.D
-Toxic
-Protect
-Haze
-Supersonic/Swagger/Rest/Amnesia
It Switches in onto a water attack, and Toxic/Protects the enemy, pissing it off, and can haze away stat boosts. Supersonic is confusion, which is always annoying, but not too reliable. Swagger is good, but bad against physical attackers. Amnesia allows it to raise it's already insane SP.D to even higher levels. Rest is good healing, but unfortunately makes it open to a switch-in and get murdered by an electric move.
 
C

cheeselord

Largely Inactive
You need some form of healing.
 
C

cheeselord

Largely Inactive
That works for switch ins but after you are in no one is going to use a water attack on you.
 
A

archeopsdan

Well-Known Member
ive just found a new rain abuser, see what you think

;279;@leftovers
rain dish, calm
252 Hp, 252 Sp.def, 4 Spd
-roost
-hurricane
-stockpile
-ice beam/hydro pump/hidden power

so first of all its very defensivly built with max defensive stats availible, secondly roost is for more recovery, hurricane get 100& accuracy in rain as well as stab, stockpile is to increase bulkiness a hell of a lot. final move is a filler really depending on what your team needs.
 
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