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Competitive Singles Rate

YOOMTAH

Let's dance~
Gallade is awesome.
This is my new lead and it's working perfectly:

Gallade @ Choice Scarf
Steadfast, 180 Spe / 252 Atk / 76 Def, Jolly
Close Combat | Shadow Sneak | Swords Dance | Trick


This is really great. It can trick the bulky leads, set up on them and sweep at least 2 Pokémon away when played good. It can take on anti-leads too, by abusing it's Scarf itself and using CC/SS. 180 Spe lets it outspeed Azelf/Aerodactyl, Atk is maxed and the leftovers dumped in Defence.
 
May I ask what the point of Swords Dance is when you have stuff like Ice Punch, Stone Edge and Psycho Cut which means you can actually beat other leads? Ice Punch owns Gliscor, and Psycho Cut owns Machamp, so I suggest you consider one or the other.

The other problem with this lead is it doesn't set up nor prevent Stealth Rock, unless you were to use Taunt (which is a bad idea on a scarfer).
 
Metagross: Trick + Iron Ball (Update)

Here's one that has just been working STUPIDLY well for me, however, this would just be for a one move update to an analysis that already exists. Please note that I am NOT saying my variant is better, but I AM saying that my variant is competitivly viable for todays metagame.

Trick + Iron Ball (Update)
376.png

Item: Iron Ball
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamat
EVs: 236 HP/252 Atk/20 Speed
Moveset:
-Trick
-Meteor Mash
-Earthquake
-Explosion/Stealth Rock/Body Slam

The idea here is to add some utility to this set. As oppossed to having a one time use (usually) moveslot using either Explosion or Stealth Rock, how about if after that Tricked Iron Ball (since with my expierence, the opponent will more times than not switch out), you try and cripple yet another Pokemon via the 30% paralysis rate from Body Slam (suppossing a Ghost tyoe wasn't switched in). Even if a ghost type does make the switch in, you didn't just Exlopde like the old set warns you about. If you can also supply Wish support (most likely from Vaporeon or Umbreon), this variant can come back in for some more fun later instead of having wasted itself (via Explosion). Wash, rinse, repeat with the hard hitting (potential) paralysis support.

At 30%, paralysis support via Body Slam is not always going to happen, but on a switch in (only taking into consideration the 48 OU legal Pokemon), you have MORE of a chance of hitting for any damage over Earthquake (There are 7 Ghost types which Body Slam won't hit, paired against 17 Flying/Levitate Pokemon that Earthquake won't hit, and 7 non-flying, non-Levitating Steel and/or Rock types that aren't very likely to switch in). With Explosion, you don't get a second chance (as stated in the above paragraph), and with Meteor Mash, Metagross' common counters (save for Swampert), will be more benificial being paralized, as oppossed to getting hit with Meteor Mash, since it's not too likely any Steel type not named Bronzong, and no Rock types will be switching into Metagross for any reason.
 
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i like it, i might try it out
 

Black Murder Heavangelon

Ow! Ow! Harder! Ow!
You guys have got to check this Dusknoir out.

Dusknoir@Leftovers
Relaxed - Pressure
252 HP/100 Def/158 Sp.Def
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Night Shade
-Spite

EVs and Nature subjected to change based on proper analysis.

This thing is a monster. With Pressure and Spite working together, you zap 6 PP from your opponent every turn. Stuff like Shadow ball will be eaten up in 4 turns. Also, Because this thing is so hard to take down, the opponent will try to use their strongest attack, which usually have low PP. Night Shade is the only attacking move as there are no Atk EVs invested.

This set has some problems, though. Firstly, it obviously has trouble dealing with Normal types. Secondly, it can't do anything against boosting sweepers. If they get off a few boosts, Dusknoir won't be able to wall them. I lost some matches this way.

Well, there ya go guys. I'm confident this is a Dusknoir you'll like.

Reposting because No one commented.

Come on guys. This set works wonders!
 
Reposting because No one commented.

Come on guys. This set works wonders!

It could be viable, but there are a few nit picks I have about it.

1) Siesmic Toss over Night Shade

Reason: Gengar and Mismadgius are going to eat you alive, since niether of them will need anywhere near 6 PP's worth of Shadow Ball to take you down, meaning you will need to switch out versus them. Since the only type Siesmic Toss only misses Ghost types, and you will need to make that switch out, Siesmic Toss can hit the normal types for you.

2) Blissey and Snorlax

Reason: Due to their high HP, and especially Blissey's high PP Stalling moves, you aren't going to get anything pst these two.

3) Any other Poke that can get 101 HP subs

Reason: Vaporeon beats you with Toxic/Wish stalling, Celebi beats you with it's Sub/Seed set, and Tyranitar beats you with it's TyraniBoah set. There are probably more, but those are the main three right at the top of my head. Even with the Rest/Talk combo, Celebi and T-tar will still beat you outright, and Vappy stalls you, just as much as you stall it. If you are having to hit with Night Shade (or my suggested Siesmic Toss) twice to break a sub, that means they hit you twice, as well, therefore you do more turns of Rest + Sleep Talk than you do actually trying to stall your opponent with Spite.
 
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dragontamer98

Modern Genocide
Pretty interesting set. I wonder if this could work:

Duskinior @ Leftovers
Nature: Relaxed
Ability:pressure
EVs: 252 Defence/ 252 SpD/ 4 Spe
-Pain Split
-Taunt
-Seismic Toss/ Night Shade
-Spite
This could be a small variant of yours. Although Pain Split won't give you a reliable recovery move, you make room for an a way to shut down Subs. Taunt will also force the opponent to attack, making it easier to abuse your Pressure Spite strategy. Seismic Toss or Night Shade for the above reasons that jeyre mentioned.
 

4kjayhawks

I do it for tha hood
Pretty interesting set. I wonder if this could work:

Duskinior @ Leftovers
Nature: Relaxed
Ability:pressure
EVs: 252 Defence/ 252 SpD/ 4 Spe
-Pain Split
-Taunt
-Seismic Toss/ Night Shade
-Spite
This could be a small variant of yours. Although Pain Split won't give you a reliable recovery move, you make room for an a way to shut down Subs. Taunt will also force the opponent to attack, making it easier to abuse your Pressure Spite strategy. Seismic Toss or Night Shade for the above reasons that jeyre mentioned.

Ok, here's some nitpicks I have. ALWAYS max HP instead of defenses, especially on something with this low HP. So, run these EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def. with an Impish Nature, since you aren't running any special moves. Also, Dusknoir is too slow to abuse Taunt, so I would just run something like WoW or Earthquake. The set could work, but it is just very very gimmicky
 

dragontamer98

Modern Genocide
Ok, here's some nitpicks I have. ALWAYS max HP instead of defenses, especially on something with this low HP. So, run these EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def. with an Impish Nature, since you aren't running any special moves. Also, Dusknoir is too slow to abuse Taunt, so I would just run something like WoW or Earthquake. The set could work, but it is just very very gimmicky

Well the point in not maxing HP was so that Pain Split would be more effective. And maybe using this Duskinior on a Trick Room team might help it?
 

Black Murder Heavangelon

Ow! Ow! Harder! Ow!
It could be viable, but there are a few nit picks I have about it.

1) Siesmic Toss over Night Shade

Reason: Gengar and Mismadgius are going to eat you alive, since niether of them will need anywhere near 6 PP's worth of Shadow Ball to take you down, meaning you will need to switch out versus them. Since the only type Siesmic Toss only misses Ghost types, and you will need to make that switch out, Siesmic Toss can hit the normal types for you..

Yes, I have noticed that Gengar and Mismagius do give this Dusknoir problems. Most of the time, I have to switch out to a pokemon who can handle them.

2) Blissey and Snorlax

Reason: Due to their high HP, and especially Blissey's high PP Stalling moves, you aren't going to get anything pst these two..

I haven't fought enough Snorlax or Blissey to comment on this.

3) Any other Poke that can get 101 HP subs

Reason: Vaporeon beats you with Toxic/Wish stalling, Celebi beats you with it's Sub/Seed set, and Tyranitar beats you with it's TyraniBoah set. There are probably more, but those are the main three right at the top of my head. Even with the Rest/Talk combo, Celebi and T-tar will still beat you outright, and Vappy stalls you, just as much as you stall it. If you are having to hit with Night Shade (or my suggested Siesmic Toss) twice to break a sub, that means they hit you twice, as well, therefore you do more turns of Rest + Sleep Talk than you do actually trying to stall your opponent with Spite.

Vaporeon's Toxic doesn't work because of Rest and Dusknoir can PP stall with Spite, but I see what you mean. I haven't seen a lot of Vaporeons packing Substitute though. Celebi is a similar situation, as its Leech Seed can be problematic. But Dusknoir can take its hits easily and rest off damage lost from Leech Seed. Most Celebi's I see don't have Substitute as well.

Tyranitar, however, are definitely a problem. The best Dusknoir can do is switch out and let another pokemon handle it, as Dusknoir without Will o wisp can't beat TTar one on one.

Dusknoir's nature is Relaxed because the lower speed means it can use Spite after the opponent. Meaning that Dusknoir will almost always zap 6 PP from the opponent.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. This is one of the few good sets I've thought of. Any thoughts on the EV spread though?
 

calze6

Reclaiming da ladder
Wouldn't a status move like will-o-wisp or toxic be more effective over night shade to cripple enemies why they try desperately to attack you?
 

randomspot555

Well-Known Member
Wouldn't a status move like will-o-wisp or toxic be more effective over night shade to cripple enemies why they try desperately to attack you?

Seismic Toss/Night Shade are attacks, while the others are status effects. Yes, status is more likely to cripple enemies, with the benefit usually going to WOW since it cuts Attack in half. Toxic is better if you want the enemy to run out of HP quicker.
 
Here's one that has just been working STUPIDLY well for me, however, this would just be for a one move update to an analysis that already exists. Please note that I am NOT saying my variant is better, but I AM saying that my variant is competitivly viable for todays metagame.

Trick + Iron Ball (Update)
376.png

Item: Iron Ball
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamat
EVs: 236 HP/252 Atk/20 Speed
Moveset:
-Trick
-Meteor Mash
-Earthquake
-Explosion/Stealth Rock/Body Slam

The idea here is to add some utility to this set. As oppossed to having a one time use (usually) moveslot using either Explosion or Stealth Rock, how about if after that Tricked Iron Ball (since with my expierence, the opponent will more times than not switch out), you try and cripple yet another Pokemon via the 30% paralysis rate from Body Slam (suppossing a Ghost tyoe wasn't switched in). Even if a ghost type does make the switch in, you didn't just Exlopde like the old set warns you about. If you can also supply Wish support (most likely from Vaporeon or Umbreon), this variant can come back in for some more fun later instead of having wasted itself (via Explosion). Wash, rinse, repeat with the hard hitting (potential) paralysis support.

At 30%, paralysis support via Body Slam is not always going to happen, but on a switch in (only taking into consideration the 48 OU legal Pokemon), you have MORE of a chance of hitting for any damage over Earthquake (There are 7 Ghost types which Body Slam won't hit, paired against 17 Flying/Levitate Pokemon that Earthquake won't hit, and 7 non-flying, non-Levitating Steel and/or Rock types that aren't very likely to switch in). With Explosion, you don't get a second chance (as stated in the above paragraph), and with Meteor Mash, Metagross' common counters (save for Swampert), will be more benificial being paralized, as oppossed to getting hit with Meteor Mash, since it's not too likely any Steel type not named Bronzong, and no Rock types will be switching into Metagross for any reason.

That doesn't make sense..

Earthquake + Meteor Mash hits literally everything harder than Body Slam.. Except Zapdos / Charizard / Gyarados. All three take more from Iron Balled Earthquake.

Also you would be running Body Slam over Explosion or Stealth Rock.. two of the best moves in the game. That makes even less sense.
 
That doesn't make sense..

Earthquake + Meteor Mash hits literally everything harder than Body Slam.. Except Zapdos / Charizard / Gyarados. All three take more from Iron Balled Earthquake.

Also you would be running Body Slam over Explosion or Stealth Rock.. two of the best moves in the game. That makes even less sense.

The theory here is that wth Explosion, you blow up once, and your done. Alot of times, that's a good thing, depending on what you blow up on.

And with Stealth Rock, you set up the rocks, and if your opponent doesn't have a spinner, that moveslot is finished, as well. Also, not a big problem, since SR will always produce some sort of damage for you.

And with Earthquake (which would still stay in the moveset), you have less probability overall of hitting whatever switches into you (only thinking about the 48 OU Pokemon), since most of the hope targets of the Tricked Iron Ball (Skarmory, Bronzong, Rotom) will switch out after they get the Ball tricked to them.

With Body Slam, you don't have to risk a completely wasted move, if say, Dusknoir switches in on the Explosion, and then sits there afterwords laughing at you. And there are pleanty of other Pokemon out there that can set up rocks for you, leaving you a space for another move (Body Slam.

Let's use one of your examples. If after you Trick the Iron Ball to something (let's say Rotom), your opponent will be switching out. If they then switch in something like Zapdos, you hit it harder than any of the other moves in you set, and though a 30% ParaHax isn't something to put bank on, if you are luck enough to get it, it's likely that the rest of you team has been made a huge hole to be able to set up on a Poke that can't handle them, or you have made it very diffcult for your opponent to find viable switch in's to whatever you might have in store for them later.

I base my Body Slam theory on the same theory that Snorlax and Likilicky use it for. Unfortunately, you don't get STAB damage though.
 

hobby

Well-Known Member
I base my Body Slam theory on the same theory that Snorlax and Likilicky use it for. Unfortunately, you don't get STAB damage though.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but the only reason those two lean back on Body Slam is because it is a STAB move for them, Metagross generally has something better to be doing with its time.
 

-Unicorno-

Think Magical!
Absol @ razor claw
ability:super luck
nature:jolly
-Swords dance
-double team
-sucker punch
-night slash

this absol is a sweeper so you wait till your opponent sends out like a psychic or ghost pokemon. use double team 2 or 3 times so you can use swords dance with getting hit probaly once. the use swords dance 3 times. then use night slash and you can wipe out any pokemon(i did it on a lv.100 lucario)and if its a critical hit it can do 400 or 500 damage. and can wipe out a whole team
 
The theory here is that wth Explosion, you blow up once, and your done. Alot of times, that's a good thing, depending on what you blow up on.

And with Stealth Rock, you set up the rocks, and if your opponent doesn't have a spinner, that moveslot is finished, as well. Also, not a big problem, since SR will always produce some sort of damage for you.

Stealth Rocks will do 25-50% damage to all the targets of Body Slam. I would MUCH rather you paralyze my Zapdos or Gyarados than get rocks down or a KO by blowing up on them.

And with Earthquake (which would still stay in the moveset), you have less probability overall of hitting whatever switches into you (only thinking about the 48 OU Pokemon), since most of the hope targets of the Tricked Iron Ball (Skarmory, Bronzong, Rotom) will switch out after they get the Ball tricked to them.

And Body Slam is a wasted moveset against all of them.

With Body Slam, you don't have to risk a completely wasted move, if say, Dusknoir switches in on the Explosion, and then sits there afterwords laughing at you.

Wait so your first reaction to Tricking an Iron Ball on Skarmory / Rotom / Zapdos is to Explode on them?

And there are pleanty of other Pokemon out there that can set up rocks for you, leaving you a space for another move (Body Slam.

Iron Ball Metagross is very reliable at it. I would rather use Stealth Rock over Body Slam.

Let's use one of your examples. If after you Trick the Iron Ball to something (let's say Rotom), your opponent will be switching out. If they then switch in something like Zapdos, you hit it harder than any of the other moves in you set, and though a 30% ParaHax isn't something to put bank on, if you are luck enough to get it, it's likely that the rest of you team has been made a huge hole to be able to set up on a Poke that can't handle them, or you have made it very diffcult for your opponent to find viable switch in's to whatever you might have in store for them later.

Or with Explosion you can cripple one poke and blow up a second. The only thing good about Body Slam is catching Scarf Heatran or Magnezone with paralysis, but the few times they switch in at all you are running off 30% success rate. Just predict them and EQ.

I base my Body Slam theory on the same theory that Snorlax and Likilicky use it for. Unfortunately, you don't get STAB damage though.

Like Hobby said its because its their best option. No one uses Likilicky in any tier and Snorlax is defensive.

Absol @ razor claw
ability:super luck
nature:jolly
-Swords dance
-double team
-sucker punch
-night slash

this absol is a sweeper so you wait till your opponent sends out like a psychic or ghost pokemon. use double team 2 or 3 times so you can use swords dance with getting hit probaly once. the use swords dance 3 times. then use night slash and you can wipe out any pokemon(i did it on a lv.100 lucario)and if its a critical hit it can do 400 or 500 damage. and can wipe out a whole team

The problem comes when no one is dumb enough to leave a Psychic or Ghost type in on you so you can Swords Dance three times + Double Team 4+ times. They will probably just switch to Lucario /Machamp / Scizor / Steel and eliminate you immediately.
 
Stealth Rocks will do 25-50% damage to all the targets of Body Slam. I would MUCH rather you paralyze my Zapdos or Gyarados than get rocks down or a KO by blowing up on them.



And Body Slam is a wasted moveset against all of them.



Wait so your first reaction to Tricking an Iron Ball on Skarmory / Rotom / Zapdos is to Explode on them?

No, if you Trick an Iron Ball onto those three, anyone with any intelligence isn't keeping them in. And save for Skarmory and some Swampert variants, you'll be getting at least 25% damage off of the Body Slam anyways.


Iron Ball Metagross is very reliable at it. I would rather use Stealth Rock over Body Slam.

Aside from the fact that Rotom, Zapdos, Bronzong, and Skarmory otherwise wall the crap out of Metagross.


Or with Explosion you can cripple one poke and blow up a second. The only thing good about Body Slam is catching Scarf Heatran or Magnezone with paralysis, but the few times they switch in at all you are running off 30% success rate. Just predict them and EQ.


Or, with proper Wish support (I suggest Vaporeon), you don't have to just blow up. Why go with ony KOing one Poke via an Explosion, when you can use that last moveslot for anything else. (I don't see running Explosion on any version of Metagross except AgiliGross and Dual Creen Metagross as a viable option)

Like Hobby said its because its their best option. No one uses Likilicky in any tier and Snorlax is defensive.


Snorlax is specially defensive, with the EV spread given, Metagross, with it's base 135 Def, is physically defensive.

I'm not saying Body Slam is a better option, I'm saying it;'s an equally viable option as both Stealth Rock and Explosion.
 
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No, if you Trick an Iron Ball onto those three, anyone with any intelligence isn't keeping them in. And save for Skarmory and some Swampert variants, you'll be getting at least 25% damage off of the Body Slam anyways.

Or 100% with Explosion. Or 22% with Meteor Mash. Or 12%-200% (accumulated) with Stealth Rocks.

Aside from the fact that Rotom, Zapdos, Bronzong, and Skarmory otherwise wall the crap out of Metagross.

With Explosion Metagross beats Skarmory by pounding on it with Meteor Mash. Specially Defensive Skarmory is KOed by Meteor Mash + Explosion after rocks 100% of the time. The other two do even worse. Rotom beats you regardless of your moves.

Or, with proper Wish support (I suggest Vaporeon), you don't have to just blow up. Why go with ony KOing one Poke via an Explosion, when you can use that last moveslot for anything else. (I don't see running Explosion on any version of Metagross except AgiliGross and Dual Creen Metagross as a viable option)

Lead Metagross can take out Swampert / Hippowdon before they lay rocks, or pick off some random threat late game like Leftovers Gyarados or Suicune. Oh, unless you would rather use Body Slam..


Snorlax is specially defensive, with the EV spread given, Metagross, with it's base 135 Def, is physically defensive.

No it isn't. Its tough, but not NEARLY as tough as Snorlax. Body Slam has garbage coverage anyway, even on Snorlax. The only reason Snorlax runs it is because its his strongest move.

I'm not saying Body Slam is a better option, I'm saying it;'s an equally viable option as both Stealth Rock and Explosion.

I respectfully disagree!

If you're looking for paralysis its pointless since you already have Trick / Iron Ball. If you want more damage just use Zen Headbutt.
 

Stickly

Member
this is one of the pokemon im workin on for my ultimate team

Pokemon/ Starmie
Ability/ Natural Cure
Item/ Mystic water
Nature/ Timd
Evs/ 172Hp, 216Spd, 120Sp.A
Moveset-
Recover
Surf
Ice Beam
Rapid Spin

plz rate :)
 
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