1. We have moved to a new forum system. All your posts and data should have transferred over. Welcome, to the new Serebii Forums. Details here
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
    Dismiss Notice
  3. If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders
    Dismiss Notice

Competitive viability of defensive boosters, especially in lower tiers...

Discussion in 'Older Gens' started by Divine Retribution, Dec 29, 2012.

  1. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    I've noticed most experienced players seem to advise against the use of purely-Defense boosting moves, like Amnesia, Cosmic Power, Iron Defense, etc., and I just wanted to discuss their viability, especially in LU and RU. Firstly, most defensive boosters rely on Toxic to do damage (With a few exceptions, like Sigilyph), meaning Steel and Poison types wall them completely. That said, Steel Pokemon aren't nearly as common in NU and LU/RU, and Poison types aren't really a staple anywhere, notwithstanding things like Weezing and Drapion. After Steel and Poison types are removed, the other thing defensive boosters need to worry about are phasers (I find Cradily makes an excellent solution to this). Now, of course defensive boosters are inherently set-up bait for more offensive sweepers (Go to hell, Klinklang...), so a good defensive booster should ideally be paired with a sturdy revengekiller, in case things go wrong. Also, defensive boosters' own weapon can often be turned against them; Toxic will severely limit their lifespan. As such, Rapid Spin and Heal Bell support is always appreciated.So anyways, I'll wrap this rant up with a few defensive booster sets.


    Shuckle @ Leftovers (NU/LU)
    Bold - Contrary
    252 Sp. Def, 176 Defence, 80 HP
    -Toxic
    -Shell Smash
    -Power Split
    -Rest

    Cradily @ Leftovers (NU/LU)
    Bold - Suction Cups
    252 HP, 200 Defense, 56 Sp. Def
    -Toxic
    -Amnesia
    -Barrier
    -Recover

    Deoxys-D @ Leftovers (OU)
    Calm - Pressure
    252 HP, 132 Sp. Def, 128 Defense
    -Cosmic Power
    -Recover
    -Toxic
    -Night Shade

    Sigilyph @ Flame Orb
    Timid - Magic Guard
    252 Speed, 252 HP, 4 Sp. Atk
    -Cosmic Power
    -Stored Power
    -Roost
    -Psycho Shift

    I'll edit this later and add descriptions, maybe meat the whole post up when I have the time, I just want to know everyone's thoughts on defensive boosters.
     
  2. Ghosts of the Forums

    Ghosts of the Forums Who Ya Gonna Call?

    All of those sets bar sigi suck. That's my opinion, deal with it.

    Shackle needs max hp to avoid being. Nvm. Saw what you did.

    Goldman spellcheck.

    Aaa agh, did it again.

    And again.
     
  3. Zachmac

    Zachmac Crystalline Guardian

    I've faced one of these before. It was a pain, but it couldn't do any damage to steel types or poison types. It was also absolutely crushed when I used taunt. A good player shouldn't have much difficulty getting around it, it's just annoying.

    I suppose they can be removed, but you still face problems with heal bell and substitute. Pretty much, if it can take on toxic, this set is doomed. There may be cases where it works, but it's best to grab something that can fend for itself.
    Well, you may say that it's only boosting it's defenses, but really, as it does this, it's attacking power goes up. Effectively, it's not much different then a calm mind booster.
     
  4. Sparkbeat

    Sparkbeat FLASH! AAAHHHAAA!

    I hate this guy...with a passionate hate. He's probably the most annoying RU pokemon out there. Really, I think the reason these are seen less in higher tiers is because they are seen as inferior to Light Screen and Reflet since these can be used by the whole team, which help a lot in this offensive metagame.
     
  5. Ísjaki

    Ísjaki Flood Of Red

    well one word, crits.
    Another thing Deoxys-D could be doing better things like setting up hazards that will help you throughout the game rather than just helping your Deoxys
     
  6. OrbrunnerX

    OrbrunnerX That Guy

    This is pretty much Sigilyph's basic set. It's incredibly annoying, but can be gotten around if necessary, by either the inevitable crit, the hilarious Frost Breath, or the obvious Perish Song.

    Granted, most don't carry the latter two, and the former isn't guaranteed (or guaranteed to kill).



    Outside of this, though, most defenses boosters aren't viable. If they're a viable mon that boosts a defense, it probably boosts an attacking stat as well, e.g. Calm Mind (Reuniclus) or Bulk Up (Conkeldurr).
    Or Contrary Assist V-Create Spinda
     
  7. Moog2

    Moog2 Must stay awake...

    Dude. THIS is the ultimate defensive booster. It may look like a gimmick, but if you manage to set up but one Amnesia on a special sweeper, you can win. Believe it or not, I've actually swept with this sucker on a few occasions. Behold, the ultimate tank (well, maybe :p)

    Numel @Eviolite
    Calm - Simple
    248 HP, 8 Def, 252 Sp.Def
    -Amnesia
    -Curse
    -Rest
    -Earthquake


    The only reason this is viable at all, and many will say that it is not, is on account of its ability, Simple. Stat boosts and drops are doubled. Essentially, one Amnesia gives you +4 special defense. Life Orb Modest 252 Sp. Att Alakazam's Psychic will do 16% to 20% to this Numel after one Amnesia. Here's the funny part; 252 Sp. Def Shuckle IN SAND takes 17% to 20%. Yup.

    Is this a gimmick? Of course. Does it actually work? Depends on how you use it, and how you support it. This thing requires A LOT of team support, but that's sort of obvious. Something like Cresselia, which can get up Reflect and Light Scree, then use Lunar Dance to give Numel a free switch. Do this on a special attacker. While they're busy laughing, use Amnesia. As they switch, use Curse. Rest as necessary. When you've had your fun, obliterate stuff with EQ. Just make sure you kill all the fliers/ Levitators first. And all the Hazers. And Phasers. See? Lost of team support.

    Crits suck. But then, crits always suck. Lucky Chant only lasts five turns, so meh. If you get crit, you get screwed. If not, this is the most fun defensive booster I've ever seen.

    Feel free to take an offensive approach with Flame Charge and different EVs if you're into it. Numel is pure awesomeness once you get going.

    Have fun! :D
     
  8. marwinreynaa

    marwinreynaa Marwin Reyna

    yeah, they say this way. But I don't support this thing because playing with boosters is definitely more fun for me.
     
  9. bloodnmetal

    bloodnmetal Active Member

    as mentioned above, the main, if not the only for some people, downside of investing in defense boosts are the critical hits.
     
  10. Lion Demon

    Lion Demon Fairy Type Champion

    I personally stick with Clam Mind/Bulk Up/Shell Smash/Curse/Cosmic Power <--- These kind of moves. I do this so I can defend myself against physical & special attackers!
     
  11. TheAdmiral

    TheAdmiral Smell ya later

    When people send out siglyph, they are basically saying please crit me, an additional problem is that most politoed seem to carry persih song, granted this will not affect lower tiers
     
  12. Zachmac

    Zachmac Crystalline Guardian

    Actually, no, Sigilypth is not asking for a crit anymore then Calm Mind Latias or Jirachi. Unlike most cosmic power boosters, it carries STAB Stored Power, so it's effectively getting a special attack boost as it uses calm mind as well.

    I've tried it, and it works better then you'd think.
     
  13. Blue Harvest

    Blue Harvest Banned

    Defensive boosters are bad because they accomplish absolutely nothing. Ok yeah, you Iron Defense'd and now I'm doing half damage. I don't care because your Pokemon is no more capable of killing me than it was before. So you can get to +6 defenses while I set up Spikes, heal myself, Rapid Spin, Swords Dance, Calm Mind or whatever. Then when I am ready I will find some way to kill your defense booster. Either by Tricking it, Whirlwind, Haze, overpowering it with my own offensive boosts, setting up a sub and fishing for a crit etc. Even if it is late game and I no longer have a solid way of killing your defense booster I can still just pound away at it. Your Shuckle or Cosmic Power Deoxys or whatever have no real offensive presence so more often than not they will be crit long before I lose.

    Pokemon that use Amnesia, Cosmic Power etc are generally bad but those that use Bulk Up, Calm Mind, or Curse are different. They don't need to boost to +4 or +5 before they do anything. An attack boost or two makes Conkledurr, Mismagius, Snorlax etc far more dangerous because they can start killing before I get too many free turns. Generally I won't find time to set up Spikes or heal against anything that boosts its offenses because those Pokemon can punish me for giving them even a single free turn. Worse still is Dragon and Quiver Dancers, and Shell Smashers that can exterminate a team in just one turn.

    Defensive boosting without altering your attack is bad... with the exception of Sigilyph, but that thing is good for many more reasons than just Cosmic Power.
     
  14. TheAdmiral

    TheAdmiral Smell ya later

    Really? Even outside of any defensive vulnerabilities you are still basically using a mono attacker who can't touch the many dark types in ru such as spiritomb madibuzz drapion (other than statusing them) and they can attack / phaze in return. Then you have stuff like defensive slowking who can tank boosted stored powers all day long.
     

Share This Page