Complete Moveset Thread

[Dusknoir08]

i want a good Wall/Tank for my team, so far i have Metagross with Earthquake, Meteor Mash, Rest and Sleep Talk. is it good? i'd like some suggestions for other Wall/Tanks

 

[warnerbroman]

how about your avatar?

 

[Dusknoir08]

how about your avatar?

hmm, i dunno. i used to use it but its ****** HP really let me down
i've been checking Smogon and i think the best candidate is Hippowdown. my Garchomp is a brightpowderchomp so Hippowdon can keep the Sandstorm up and running for Garchomp to work at its best.
i think i'll go with this moveset:
Hippowdon
Impish @ Leftovers
252HP/80ATK/178DEF
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Roar
-Slack Off
i don't have a Stealth Rock user on my team so this is a good addition, with Roar i'll just keep being really annoying by forcing switches, lol

 

[Cool Frood]

If you want, drop stealth rock or roar in favor of ice fang. It gets great coverage! Of course, if you don't have a stealth rock-er, Hippowdown can use it well. There's just so many pokemon that can learn it, it's a waste to use it on something that doesn't need it. I use a Crawlily for my SR's.

 

[SphealDrill]

If for some reason you don't want to use Hippowdown, Torterra or Slowbro also work decently.

 

[Dusknoir08]

thanks for the suggestions but i think i'll keep Hippowdon

 

[tokiohotel.]

Alright, I am doing some MAJOR editing to my team right now, and I am currently checking the eevee-lutions. So, to test them out, I will replace with Gastrodon and Cranidos with Vaporeon and Umbreon, as well as adding a Jolteon, because I desperatley need an electric type.

What are movesets for Vaporeon, Umbreon, and Jolteon, that don't require ages of breeding?

 

[SphealDrill]

Fortunately, the Eeveelutions are very easy to breed moves on, with the ability to use Smeargle. So as long as you are willing to get 3 different Smeargle there should be no problem.

Vaporeon@Leftovers
252HP, 129SpAtk, 129SpDef
Charm
Wish
Surf
Ice Beam

Charm easily weakens most physical attackers (unless they are say, Metagross or Crawdaunt), then you can simply Wish up damage and fight back with strong Surfs or Ice Beams. If you're playing Item Clause, Leftovers may be switched with something like Life Orb for bigger oomph.

Umbreon@Leftovers
252HP, 129Def, 129SpDef
Wish
Mean Look
Baton Pass
Payback

Trapasser.

Jolteon
Thunder Wave
Agility/Thunderbolt
Baton Pass/Fake Tears
HP Grass/Ice

Agilitipass or Sweep with Tears. HP is used instead of T-Bolt on Agilitipass because lots of people will be expecting T-Wave so you don't want to be completely locked out if Jolteon's your last.

 

[Yonowaru in Chaos]

Fortunately, the Eeveelutions are very easy to breed moves on, with the ability to use Smeargle. So as long as you are willing to get 3 different Smeargle there should be no problem.

Vaporeon@Leftovers
252HP, 129SpAtk, 129SpDef
Charm
Wish
Surf
Ice Beam

Charm easily weakens most physical attackers (unless they are say, Metagross or Crawdaunt), then you can simply Wish up damage and fight back with strong Surfs or Ice Beams. If you're playing Item Clause, Leftovers may be switched with something like Life Orb for bigger oomph.

Umbreon@Leftovers
252HP, 129Def, 129SpDef
Wish
Mean Look
Baton Pass
Payback

Trapasser.

Jolteon
Thunder Wave
Agility/Thunderbolt
Baton Pass/Fake Tears
HP Grass/Ice

Agilitipass or Sweep with Tears. HP is used instead of T-Bolt on Agilitipass because lots of people will be expecting T-Wave so you don't want to be completely locked out if Jolteon's your last.

Probably not my question, but could Charm be replaced with Acid Armour, or does the fear of a PHaze or a Haze negate that option?

 

[SphealDrill]

Acid Armor does work if you know your opponent doesn't have a PHazer. If you find yourself switching a lot, though, Charm might be better.

 

[warnerbroman]

thanks for the suggestions but i think i'll keep Hippowdon

I have a curse slakoff version

 

[Mandude]

which is better: a vespiquen or a hippowdon for a wall/tank?

 

[Yonowaru in Chaos]

Vespiquen would be dead in a matter of seconds against the following:
~Skarmory with Drill Peck/Stealth Rock PHazer
~Garchomp with Fire Fang, Stone Edge
~Salamence with Fire Fang/Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Stone Edge
~Heracross with Stone Edge
~Suicune/Starmie/Slowbro/Swampert/Abomasnow/Weavile with an ice move.
~Magnezone/Jolteon/Gengar/Weezing with an electric move.
~Heatran/Infernape with Flare Blitz/Fire Blast respectively
~I'm sure there are more

In BL:
~Houndoom
~Kingdra with Ice Beam/Hidden Power Electric
~Honchkrow
~Floatzel with Ice Fang
~Aerodactyl
~Empoleon
~Torterra
~Blaziken
~Charizard
~Moltres
~Anything else

And you think you were safe in Uber:
~Kyogre with Thunder
~Ho-oh with Sacred Fire
~A Psychic type with access to Bolt-Beam.

But in UU, Vespiquen isn't really that counterable, unless Stealth Rock is a factor (and it probably is). Vespiquen does have its good points however, a nice STAB move that only Heracross has a better version of, a good recovery move and a Cosmic Power equivalent. Basically, the only thing that lets it down is poor typing and low Speed to compensate. I mean, Ninjask and Yanmega can do so well in OU because of their Speed offsets its typing (and the fact that they sweep rather than feebly tank with Stone Edge and Stealth Rock running rampant).

Now to Hippowdon:
In OU, nothing can counter it effectively, except bulky water types and possibly Gyarados. Hippowdon is only hindered by Water, Ice and Grass moves (compared to Vespiquen: Rock, Ice, Electric, Fire, Flying). Most of these moves are special however, and Hippowdon can do little to prevent its exploitation of its poor Sp. Defence. It can however 'counter' some of its counters, with its three elemental fangs, Thunder Fang for water types, particularly Gyarados and Ice Fang for Grass-types like Tangrowth and Leafeon (though they DO have high defence, so it may not work out in the long run) as well as the Dragons and the lesser seen Fire Fang mainly for Heracross, the grass-types and the Bug/Steel-types. Stealth Rock resistance is useful and a recovery move to offset the damage that fails to kill it, as well as a high Attack stat to take advantage of Earthquake and Stone Edge, which few resist completely. With Roar and Stealth Rock also at its disposal, it can cause passive damage by team shuffling and gains fantastic coverage with its three fangs.

P.S. Somehow this is also related to that typing vs. stats topic we had a while ago.

 

[Cool Frood]

I think that the stats/typing argument happened in the Complete Strategy Thread. Vespiqueen just doesn't have the resistances needed. Hippowdon, on the other hand, has good attack, hp, good coverage, and a great STAB. Vespiqueen's inability to use Stealth Rock, and not using Roar makes it bad compared to Hippowdon.

 

[Mandude]

Thanks that definately helps

 

[mew..]

question. i got a tangrowth i wanted to use, but it has no leech seed and is quiet natured.

i was thinking of this set for it:

tangrowth@leftovers
~rest
~sleep talk
~power whip
~knock off

it was ev trained in attack, sp. attack, and hp, so it isn't the best. :/
still, i want to use it, so i made this set. hows it look?

and i was looking for a celebi to use as a sub seeder, or calm mind passer. which is better?

EDIT: my celebi has HP dragon 68, is it good enough to use on salamance and unsuspecting dragons?

 

[Cool Frood]

Well....the special attack and normal attack EV's are a waste. I'm pretty sure that you can relearn the EV's (use berries) at level 100. If the Tangrowth isn't level 100, you'll be fine. The quiet nature will make the vine-covered creature cry. The moveset looks okay, if you want to, knock off can be traded for earthquake, for for coverage.

As for Celebi, (or any pokemon) HP dragon sucks. It hits one type for supereffective, Dragon. Ice, on the other hand, hits most dragons for x4 damage, and also hits grass, ground, and flying. Most Celebi's also carry a HP ice. Basically, you're carrying a 1/2 weak, predictable, almost useless (i don't think that HP Dragon won't hurt Salmance) anti-dragon move. Short summary: No.

Sub seed or calm mind passer; which does your team need?

 

[Dusknoir08]

i got a question, why isn't Jirachi used more as a mixed attacker? its attack and special attack is equal and it learns some pretty good moves.
so heres what i got in mind:
Jirachi
Serene Grace
(nature needed) @ Leftovers
252SPE/129ATK/129Sp.ATK
-Thunder
-Zen Headbutt
-Shadow Ball/Energy Ball
-U-Turn
thunder is a must have with any serene grace users, Zen Headbutt is kinda weak but gets STAB, Shadow ball can hit Ghosts and Psychics, but Energy ball hits the likes of Tyranitar and U-Turn is essentially there to inflict a little damage before you switch out

 

[Yonowaru in Chaos]

Well its not bad, since people won't be expecting mixed attacker, they'd be expecting stuff like Reflect/Light Screen or Wish.

Is Thunder used for an explicit reason?

 

[RedPeppers]

I'm pretty sure Thunder has a 60% paralysis rate with serene grace.....Not positive.