Conclusion! Incineroar VS Torracat!! (1086)

[Lord Starfish]

Poor Kukui's Magikarp. No one felt any sympathy for it...but seriously, what the hell kind of Pokemon was the last one that didn't warrant him using first before Incineroar? I MUST KNOW.

Sadly, they never told us. We are still in the dark.

 

[dman_dustin]

...Though it was sort of weird how Ash's new Incineroar looked knocked out despite winning, but Kukui's got up after being declared the loser. Like...weird. I'm not sure how that works..

Given that we're dealing with anime, and not binary numbers, as such we must treat the Pokemon as if they are living creatures (to an extent), I'd say equivalent wise Kukui's Incineroar did reach 0 HP with perhaps Torracat having 1 HP left, then when it evolved, Kukui's Incineroar recovered just enough to gain 1 HP, while the stress of evolving and expended energy caused Ash's Incineroar to go down to 0 HP, and because it suffered more injuries, it would take longer for Ash's Incineroar to regain that equivalent 1 HP back while Kukui's Incineroar just simply was knocked out but was more experienced to recover just enough to get back up soon after.

We have to assume that just because a Pokemon recovers doesn't mean that it can still be used in battle if the referee calls it, it needs to not be used any further at least until it properly is taken care of by Nurse Joy or perhaps after a long period of time.

It's hard to know for sure if Pokemon can recover their full strength on their own, but I assume it would make sense. I just think the Pokemon Center merely speeds up the process, or handles more serious injuries with of course whatever magical medicine they use that can technically fully heal a Pokemon that was on the brink of death. The exception that we've seen is Ash's Pikachu nearly dying in DP, in which magical medicine wasn't enough to fully heal Pikachu, but it did seem to confirm that Pokemon naturally can recover from serious injury if given enough time, though probably needing actual medicine to FULLY recover. The exception of course was Stoutland but I would assume age of the Pokemon plays a big part on the presumed "immortal like" ability Pokemon have or perhaps serious conditions at play (such as being poisoned too long without treatment, which would somewhat contradict the games where Pokemon can recover while being in Poke balls).

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Given that we're dealing with anime, and not binary numbers, as such we must treat the Pokemon as if they are living creatures (to an extent), I'd say equivalent wise Kukui's Incineroar did reach 0 HP with perhaps Torracat having 1 HP left, then when it evolved, Kukui's Incineroar recovered just enough to gain 1 HP, while the stress of evolving and expended energy caused Ash's Incineroar to go down to 0 HP, and because it suffered more injuries, it would take longer for Ash's Incineroar to regain that equivalent 1 HP back while Kukui's Incineroar just simply was knocked out but was more experienced to recover just enough to get back up soon after.

We have to assume that just because a Pokemon recovers doesn't mean that it can still be used in battle if the referee calls it, it needs to not be used any further at least until it properly is taken care of by Nurse Joy or perhaps after a long period of time.

It's hard to know for sure if Pokemon can recover their full strength on their own, but I assume it would make sense. I just think the Pokemon Center merely speeds up the process, or handles more serious injuries with of course whatever magical medicine they use that can technically fully heal a Pokemon that was on the brink of death. The exception that we've seen is Ash's Pikachu nearly dying in DP, in which magical medicine wasn't enough to fully heal Pikachu, but it did seem to confirm that Pokemon naturally can recover from serious injury if given enough time, though probably needing actual medicine to FULLY recover. The exception of course was Stoutland but I would assume age of the Pokemon plays a big part on the presumed "immortal like" ability Pokemon have or perhaps serious conditions at play (such as being poisoned too long without treatment, which would somewhat contradict the games where Pokemon can recover while being in Poke balls).

Don't we have evolving Pokemon that fully heal up upon evolving, though.

 

[dman_dustin]

Don't we have evolving Pokemon that fully heal up upon evolving, though.

Just a theory (I'll explain in multiple ways).

That was likely as a result of energy exploding from evolution, kind of like say Goku going super sayian.

With Torracat, it wasn't an explosion of power/energy, I think it just had JUST enough energy just to evolve, and because it evolved it used up all of its strength.

So other battle evolutions, is that digging deep into a well of pent up energy causes it to evolve and likely overflows with energy (thus the Pokemon healing a bit from evolution or continuing to battle with new power).

Meanwhile I assume Torracat had already tapped into that energy to use it to defeat Incineroar and whatever was left over was just enough of a catalyst to trigger evolution.

Because I have to assume for a Pokemon to evolve, there has to be some kind of energy catalyst to trigger it, when a Pokemon evolves in the middle of battle, I'm assuming that's when it breaks through untapped energy or basically energy reserves that not only can trigger evolution but keep the momentum going. I'll liken it to perhaps an energy spike or a adrenaline shot. Or think of WWE wrestling/games, how the momentum shifts. One person is thoroughly demolishing someone, but then suddenly the opponent turns the tables and gains that momentum.

Since Torracat already defeated Incineroar, I'm assuming the momentum energy was depleting fast, the adrenaline was wearing off, but it just had just enough energy to trigger an evolution as a last "hurrah" or last showing of strength before the energy completely depleted.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Just a theory (I'll explain in multiple ways).

That was likely as a result of energy exploding from evolution, kind of like say Goku going super sayian.

With Torracat, it wasn't an explosion of power/energy, I think it just had JUST enough energy just to evolve, and because it evolved it used up all of its strength.

So other battle evolutions, is that digging deep into a well of pent up energy causes it to evolve and likely overflows with energy (thus the Pokemon healing a bit from evolution or continuing to battle with new power).

Meanwhile I assume Torracat had already tapped into that energy to use it to defeat Incineroar and whatever was left over was just enough of a catalyst to trigger evolution.

Because I have to assume for a Pokemon to evolve, there has to be some kind of energy catalyst to trigger it, when a Pokemon evolves in the middle of battle, I'm assuming that's when it breaks through untapped energy or basically energy reserves that not only can trigger evolution but keep the momentum going. I'll liken it to perhaps an energy spike or a adrenaline shot. Or think of WWE wrestling/games, how the momentum shifts. One person is thoroughly demolishing someone, but then suddenly the opponent turns the tables and gains that momentum.

Since Torracat already defeated Incineroar, I'm assuming the momentum energy was depleting fast, the adrenaline was wearing off, but it just had just enough energy to trigger an evolution as a last "hurrah" or last showing of strength before the energy completely depleted.

I reeeally don't think it's necessary to overthink this too much since it is really never explained in the anime. Pokemon either get lucky and gain a Full Restore upon evolving, or they just don't for whatever reason. Drama was just the reason here.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Wow the English dub really ruined this battle ://
Why did they have to change the music, why

 

[LilligantLewis]

The sixth was apparently a Pelipper so Tapu did Kukui a favor xD.

Where did you get this info?

Seems Pikachu might be able to pull off a straight win.

Naganadel is still left at the end of this episode.

Diamond & Pearl Episode #188 and Sun & Moon Episode #143 were both entirely key animated by Iwane Masa'aki, so it makes perfect sense that you would compare the two. Hell, they had the same storyboard artist and episode director (Asada Yuuji) and writer, Tomioka Atsuhiro, too.

How many total Iwane/Asada/Tomioka episodes exist in the history of the anime, and what are they?

Good job, Torracat. You actually did evolve...right before you'll be sacked to Oak, where you'll presumably won't ever come back unless the next saga does reuse you.

this right here is exactly why I was of two minds about Torracat's evolution. I was happy he beat Incineroar while he was still a Torracat, because I hate when the evolution helps in the win, but if it was going to evolve, maybe it would have been better before the win? now it won't be used in any battles ever as an Incineroar

It mist have been so weird for Pikachu to hear Ash command a Thunderbolt when it wasn't him using it.

Well, one barrier has been broken.. will the ultimate barrier break and allow Ash to catch ANOTHER electric type? i remember the hullabaloo over Grubbin in this fandom at the beginning of SM haha

maybe it confirms Pokemon don't heal after evolution

I don't think it "confirms" anything. they just do what's convenient for the plot each time. I'm sure there are cases where it's seemed like they healed (Cameron's Riolu) and guess what? They prob DID heal. Even Mega Evolution too, considering how many super-effective hits Alain's Charizard took from Pikachu before evolving.

Even Lycanroc who was the fall guy was at least acknowledged for doing something to Braviary before going down. Most fall guys usually lose without doing something worth noting I feel like.

It also did enough damage to Incineroar in Episode 1 of the battle that Kukui had to withdraw it.

Nope. It stuck with Cut throughout the series.

which confused me considering that the one we got in the SM Demo had Night Slash.

Just imagine if Nanu doesn't think Incineroar is fainted to compensate the Rowlet fakeout

I think it's a bad look on the creative team to decide to emphasize that the eyes need to be swirled to be fainted, just a few episodes ago in the Rowlet episode, only to now allow refs to call knockouts with no eyes shown. It kind of defeated the point of that episode.

. No one felt any sympathy for it...but seriously, what the hell kind of Pokemon was the last one that didn't warrant him using first before Incineroar?

Or he could have just ended up in a situation like I have many times in the game where I send out my stronger Pokémon first hoping to sweep, when I **** up and they faint, I'm left with a weaker mon.. it's not always strongest = last

 

[mehmeh1]

Where did you get this info?



Naganadel is still left at the end of this episode.



How many total Iwane/Asada/Tomioka episodes exist in the history of the anime, and what are they?



this right here is exactly why I was of two minds about Torracat's evolution. I was happy he beat Incineroar while he was still a Torracat, because I hate when the evolution helps in the win, but if it was going to evolve, maybe it would have been better before the win? now it won't be used in any battles ever as an Incineroar



Well, one barrier has been broken.. will the ultimate barrier break and allow Ash to catch ANOTHER electric type? i remember the hullabaloo over Grubbin in this fandom at the beginning of SM haha



I don't think it "confirms" anything. they just do what's convenient for the plot each time. I'm sure there are cases where it's seemed like they healed (Cameron's Riolu) and guess what? They prob DID heal. Even Mega Evolution too, considering how many super-effective hits Alain's Charizard took from Pikachu before evolving.



It also did enough damage to Incineroar in Episode 1 of the battle that Kukui had to withdraw it.



which confused me considering that the one we got in the SM Demo had Night Slash.



I think it's a bad look on the creative team to decide to emphasize that the eyes need to be swirled to be fainted, just a few episodes ago in the Rowlet episode, only to now allow refs to call knockouts with no eyes shown. It kind of defeated the point of that episode.



Or he could have just ended up in a situation like I have many times in the game where I send out my stronger Pokémon first hoping to sweep, when I **** up and they faint, I'm left with a weaker mon.. it's not always strongest = last

Look at the episode where Ash visited Kiawe's farm. Kukui lent Ash a ride Pelliper back then. As for Asada/Tomioka/Iwane. There have been a lot of them, especially in DP/XY. It'd be easier to just show some highlights, like the first Johto episode, most Paul episodes (including the finales to both 6v6 matches), the unaired Rocket vs Plasma episodes, the 4 M.E. specials, the ending of the Flare arc, Litten and Rockruff's captures, and this episode. Also, fun fact, this is the first league battle Tomioka has written since Ash vs Paul

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

So Kukui was incredibly screwed if that last Pokemon was Pelipper.

Not...exactly a way to brag if he won against Ash using a Pelipper of all things.

 

[Twilight-Kun]

So Kukui was incredibly screwed if that last Pokemon was Pelipper.

Not...exactly a way to brag if he won against Ash using a Pelipper of all things.

You do know every water and flying user has an automatic hard counter to electricity, right?

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

You do know every water and flying user has an automatic hard counter to electricity, right?

I know.

But.

We exactly don't know if it was even a Pelipper with a hard counter, so the point is kind of moot to discuss in this one occasion.

 

[Red and Blue]

Just because Kukui gave Ash a ride Pelipper doesn't mean it was his sixth. Ride Pokemon aren't always party members on a trainers team

 

[RafaSceptile]

Just because Kukui gave Ash a ride Pelipper doesn't mean it was his sixth. Ride Pokemon aren't always party members on a trainers team

Yeah, such as Lana's Lapras

 

[Twilight-Kun]

Remember when people wanted Ash to use a garchomp that didn't belong to him just because it was his ride pokemon?

 

[Red and Blue]

Glad to see that whatever training Poipole went through in Ultra Space paid off. Despite the similarities with Goodra that's one thing that sets them apart, lol. It's also refreshing that Torracat evolved after defeating Incineroar instead of it needing to evolve in order to win.

Great episode, possibly my favorite in the exhibition match

 

[RafaSceptile]

Glad to see that whatever training Poipole went through in Ultra Space paid off. Despite the similarities with Goodra that's one thing that sets them apart, lol. It's also refreshing that Torracat evolved after defeating Incineroar instead of it needing to evolve in order to win.

Great episode, possibly my favorite in the exhibition match

Charizard and Gliscor are proud of Naganadel as a last minute member of the team. Sorry Goodra.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

INCINEROAR MVP!!!!!!

 

[Twilight-Kun]

...But it didn't do anything?

Or are we talking about Kukui's, who's also not that impressive

 

[Red and Blue]

...But it didn't do anything?

It beat Venusaur and Kukui's Incineroar

 

[RafaSceptile]

It beat Venusaur and Kukui's Incineroar

Probably he is talking about the species instead of the Pokémon character