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Cons of your favorite series and pros of your least favorite

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by Ignition, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. Ignition

    Ignition Aizawa is my mood 25/8

    A twist to the typical "What's your favorite ________" thread that leads to bashing a certain series

    Basically point out a flaw about your favorite series and give credit to something your least favorite did well.

    For me I disliked how DP had so many boring fillers. I liked a handful but most are bleh. On the contrast, my favorite part about Johto's section of OS was the surprisingly fun fillers. One that sticks out is an episode where Ash's Johto starters get lost after looking for a beachball.

    Obligatory "this is a subjective topic so be respectful of differing opinions" comment
     
  2. Pokegirl Fan~

    Pokegirl Fan~ Rei Claus

    I didn't care much for May's contests and the fillers, particularly in the Battle Frontier.

    I thought the Team Flare arc was handled pretty decently and is definitely an improvement compared to Team Flare from the games.
     
  3. satopi

    satopi All hail Satomine Night!

    I don't like how underwhelming the villain arcs like the Aether Foundation and Ultra Beast arcs were. I still liked them and they weren't bad going through the details but they feel jumbled like come on, compared to our other sagas outside of AG, they barely utilized their assets!!

    I liked Totodile and Bayleef. Johto had some of the silliest fillers and it was cool to see Misty enter in something of her own expertise (and beat Ash!) :D (Honestly I can barely remember Johto, why is it my least favorite?)
     
  4. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    I did like Team Rocket being a good mix of funny and still a bit imposing during the first season of XY, even if it didn't last. The first few episodes had a legit dramatic flair because it felt like both Ash and TR's level was way above most of those watching them. I also liked Clemont's smart guy rivalry that perked up from time to time (stop complimenting the bad guys!) XD

    Concerning SM, while I do think the more diverse fillers have been more helpful to making the cast likeable than some claim, I do admit to not liking how much most of the companions are lagging behind in terms of dynamic development and goal growth. I'd forgive most of them having only one or two Pokemon if it were a very well developed Pokemon that complimented palpable agendas and roles (Kiawe does okay in this regard for example), but too many of them (particularly Mallow and Lana) just seem to be lagging behind badly and failing to stick out. And just giving them the odd DEM power boost and TR beatdown does not equate to 'development' especially if the characters aren't about strength and battling in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
    Ashfahad123 and FlygontheRavager like this.
  5. Darthlord7

    Darthlord7 Number 4 sucks

    Disliked the one-year gap between the 7th and 8th gym in DP, TR being in almost every episode, Brock's staleness and Infernape overshadowing the rest of Ash's team.

    Liked the BW trio's dynamic, most of the fillers, the Don George tournaments and Team Rocket's arc which was actually pretty decent compared to Team Plasma's.
     
  6. Ignition

    Ignition Aizawa is my mood 25/8

    Think you mean overshadowing
     
    Darthlord7 likes this.
  7. Darthlord7

    Darthlord7 Number 4 sucks

    Beat you to it.

    That's what happens when I'm writing in a sleepy state. :p
     
    Ignition likes this.
  8. Genaller

    Genaller I have been freed!

    Things I disliked about XY:

    • Sawyer’s progression from XYZ 13 to 26 was too large
    • Ash’s full battle with Astrid at the KL not being shown
    • Showcases being gender-exclusive
    • Ash loosing at the KL (though it’s really easy to pretend he won ^^)
    • The poor writing surrounding Greninja’s release
    • Ash’s dragons having a poor overall track record at the league
    • Serena’s progression in her goal not having enough struggle
    • Relative lack of explicit continuity
    • Serena not having a good frequency of focus episodes prior to figuring out her goal
    • Clemont not having a good frequency of focus episodes after his gym battle with Ash
    • No arc about Ash advancing up the Battle Chateau ranks (which could’ve been a pre-league training arc capping off with Ash having a match against an E4 member)

    Things I liked about BW:

    • Snivy’s personality
    • Everything about Krookodile
    • The concept of regularly held battle tournaments
    • Ash vs Brycen
    • Ash vs Stephan at the UL
    • The episode paying tribute to Ash’s Charizard
    • The science - spirituality dynamic between Cilan and Iris
    • Iris’s Dragonite looking like a total badass against Georgia’s Beatric
    • Operation Tempest
    • “Be an Arrow!” and “Summerly Slope” are great songs
    • The last episode (would’ve been top 5 in the whole anime for me if Ash had actually won the KL)
     
  9. satopi

    satopi All hail Satomine Night!

    I'd like to thank XY(&Z) for one of the best written characters: Alan. Without XY(&Z), the incredible Mega Evolution Special Acts and the character himself wouldn't have been created. He's the only person that successfully made me break through my rose tinted vision of Ash. It was a mental hell to choose which boy to root for in those trying times and eventually, I found myself going to the dark side. Now I know how Serena feels if she had a love triangle! X(

    I dedicate this complaint to Best Wishes for not releasing Team Rocket vs Team Plasma, shafting the rivals in DA!, making those god awful Kibago Gets Lost episodes including the DEM wins he got just because he learned a new move, Ash losing to that idiot Kotetsu, Iris not getting more episodes, and an unsatisfying continuation of DP Ash who somehow got 75% of his brain cells sucked by Zekrom via eye contact right as Pikachu lost his power. That's why you couldn't even defeat Iris and fell off Reshiram in your own dream and became known as a laughing stock! (I think that dream was his PTSD kicking in) Oh yeah and not retiring the TRio at the end.

    A big flip you to DP for putting the TRio in almost every single episode and their treatment towards Turtwig once he evolved! I also really dislike Dawn's Piplup!

    Rewatching some of the AG episodes and they're really boring. :/ Same goes for OS. They seemed so much better when I was younger.
     
  10. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    I think it's more putting TR in almost every episode doing their normal shtick at it's most stale, butting into the twerps' affairs so they could never finish a plot on their own, and offering what was usually the most bare bones of adversity (which is a shame because the odd times TR did something less formulaic DP delivered rather well). It's the same as Brock practically being limited to his pervert running gag until the last two episodes. Not just using these characters all the time, but ONLY in the exact same repetitive and one dimensional way that actually ends up a detriment to the show.

    I could argue SM has a similar problem with TR, the 'twerps vs TR' interactions are actually at their blandest and most repetitive since XYZ, which is a bigger sore spot in a series that's all about comedic interactions otherwise, though at least they use TR a lot less in that series so the twerps DO get to do their own thing more often.
     
    Moonlight Starlight and satopi like this.
  11. Apslup

    Apslup Saiyan/Namekian Warrior

    I agree with @Genaller on basically all of his points when it comes to the XY Series. Some of my biggest problems are:
    • Clemont not doing anything important past his Gym Battle with Ash (all he has to his name is the Gym Battle and the Luxray episode, which were both really good).
    • Greninja overshadowing Ash's Kalos team with the Ash-Greninja form.
    • Ash's Goodra not doing anything in the League and Noivern doing basically nothing at all after it evolves (the most he does is serve as motivation for Hawlucha).
    • And now Genaller points it out, it does suck that the Battle Chateau was only used once. It would have been so cool to see it again!
    (Also @Genaller, what do you mean by "Just don’t care about SM anymore"? Would like some context man!)

    While I really don't like BW that much, there are some things I do like about it, for example:

    • Cilan being a comedic genius.
    • Krookodile and Dragonite have amazing Personalities and development.
    • It was really cool to see Charizard come back.
    • Bianca is so clumsy and I love it (reminds me of myself sometimes lol).
     
  12. satopi

    satopi All hail Satomine Night!

    I'd mostly agree with your statement above but this one. The TRio hasn't had much showdowns between them and the twerps compared to the other sagas. At least with Ash battling the TRio, they've been thinking outside the box even if it's just Mimikyu duking it out with Pikachu.

    Then I read what you actually wrote:
    ._. ... Honestly, there's so many main characters that they probably wasn't thinking it'll matter much outside of Ash and the TRio. No clue why they aren't at least trying in episodes where they split the classmates.
     
  13. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    There's only a handful of episodes that TR and the twerps aren't just doing the stock hero/villain thing with the same basic quotes and actions over and over (eg. the Pokebase episode) or even just have a more out there scheme that gets some humour from the twerps' exasperation towards it. The twerps' bewildered reactions towards Bewear is about it for them contributing to the humour, otherwise they act like stuffy actors who got forced to do a lowly skit and refuse to play along.

    The last half of XY had a similar problem (the Gadget festival one is about the only one I think they had a noteworthy funny dynamic) while DP at least had SOME noteworthy funny chemistry or snark here and there or episodes where their dynamic was wildly different (eg. the Electrike episode or the Meowth turns good (again) episode). Even DA and Johto's fillers were saved by some funny snark and antics (even if some of it might be the dub's liberties) and TR having some more deranged and less monotonous plots.

    I feel like TR are just there now for when writers run out of good dialogue or ideas for the protagonists and just want to put them on 'autopilot'. I get they're meant to be bumbling, but the whole point of making them bumbling is to at least make their dynamic with the heroes FUNNY, and it's even more noticeable when you have already-funny heroes who suddenly STOP BEING FUNNY when they're around them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  14. satopi

    satopi All hail Satomine Night!

    Can we just vouch for Team Skull to temporarily replace Team Rocket for a few episodes? It worked well for the episodes they did appear in and we haven't had that sparkling chemistry between the two groups since that TR vs TS episode which really was a good setup.
     
    Pokegirl Fan~ likes this.
  15. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Even Team Skull have only had the token moments of not being plot device/jobber villains. The only villain that's felt like a meaningful adversary for the twerps this series is Bourgain/Viren, and even that may simply because he's only had three appearances.

    The twerps have slowly become less compatible with villains, it's even more glaring when both sides can get funny dynamics with everyone else (eg. TR and TS interacting with each other, TS with Ilima). Not to mention the erratic and shoe horned use of Faba just so they get around Lusamine's role. It's blatant that the bad guys aren't really there for much reason but to patch holes in writing in the most zero effort way possible. A blatant evil character that can butt in to cause problems and be beaten up in a very simple way.

    I'd rather they just downplayed bad guys altogether and continued putting the effort into making the twerps interesting characters on their own.
     
  16. satopi

    satopi All hail Satomine Night!

    Yeah, the bad guys here are completely weak in battle but realistically, they're a threat in day to day life. I agree that they should just focus on making the twerps interesting characters... although TR episodes are always some of the best.

    Bourgain isn't really appealing as a villain and Faba makes me question his sanity. The only bad guys I'm invested in are TR, TS, and possibly whoever becomes a threat along the way.
     
  17. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Most villains don't make an interesting dynamic for the twerps besides 'spout righteous quotes and beat them up'. Even the more sympathetic and relevant antagonists like the Florges that exiled Goodra avoid having to reach a more complicated dynamic by having another bigger nastier villain suddenly emerge and put the attention onto them (guess who that usually is :p). Villains are merely there to genericify the plot, even the better main arc villains like Galactic and Flare are just a big ball of hate to genericify the plot, just in a flashier way, probably why I don't feel that enticed by most of their arcs (along with the fact that the twerps seldom have a battle with bad guys that doesn't end in an anti climax).

    The nearest to a more unique antagonist as of recently are the Ultra Beasts, since they aren't 'villains' outright and the twerps have to deal with them more elaborately and gingerly, even recognising and appealing to a personality they possess. Some like Nihilego and Celesteela are even tied into some of the twerps' backstories and offer subtle development. Part of me hopes this is the baby steps to writing more complex villain plots that the protagonists benefit from facing in terms of characterisation. Even then though, SM's big action arcs have been rather underwhelming.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
  18. Power Up

    Power Up Gone for two weeks

    XY
    - boring ass fillers
    - Ash losing KL
    - Noivern
    - Baiting
    - Serena not having enough focus eps before she decided to be a performer
    - etc

    SM
    - Ash is generally competent at battling
    - Misty and Brock coming back
    - Good animation outside of battles
     
    Pokegirl Fan~ likes this.
  19. shoz999

    shoz999 Name's Looker, Detective Looker.

    XY - My favorite
    I guess the somewhat rushed Team Flare endgame plot

    RS - My least favorite
    The theme songs.
     
  20. Zipper4242

    Zipper4242 Bewear is the most powerful being in the universe.

    DP- I could have asked for more development of the lesser rivals (Conway, Nando, etc), and also would have wanted more development for Brock, who kind of got shafted for Dawn in this series (although I do LOVE the kind of dual main charactership they have in DP, poor Brock got like nothing besides a poison jab from Croagunk). In other words, DP either is fantastic on the character development (Paul, Chimchar, Gliscor, etc), or leaves the characters as just… there (Brock, a few other minor characters, you get the point), and I would have wanted more uniformity in development. Also, the pacing was really weird.

    BW- I liked the Charizard return arc (although we did get ripped off on Zard vs Reshiram but whatever), also liked the return of Dawn and literally everything Oshawott did while competing with Piplup.
     
    Redstar45 likes this.

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