• We're currently experiencing a minor issue with our email system preventing emails for new registrations and verifications going out. We're currently working to fix this
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

Controversial Opinions - READ GUIDELINES IN FIRST POST *Possible Spoilers for SM*

Status
Not open for further replies.

Akkipeddi

White Yaksha
Lillie's wardrobe change is a major part of her character development in the games--it signifies her break from taking her mother's orders and standing up for herself--so I wouldn't be surprised if the anime takes a similar route.
I don't know. It's definitely possible that the anime could follow the games and have Lillie change her attire, but a few things tell me they may not. Firstly, game Lillie was very scared, shy and timid and was almost in 'hiding' at Kukui's house. Her wardrobe change showed that she finally gained courage to stand up to her mother's orders. I feel anime Lillie isn't like that. Other than being afraid of touching pokemon, she seems more confident in the anime. Furthermore, she lives in a mansion with her own butler, so I don't she's really being ordered around by her mother like what her game counterpart faced. Well that's what I think anyway.
 

Spyro39

Well-Known Member
I don't know. It's definitely possible that the anime could follow the games and have Lillie change her attire, but a few things tell me they may not. Firstly, game Lillie was very scared, shy and timid and was almost in 'hiding' at Kukui's house. Her wardrobe change showed that she finally gained courage to stand up to her mother's orders. I feel anime Lillie isn't like that. Other than being afraid of touching pokemon, she seems more confident in the anime. Furthermore, she lives in a mansion with her own butler, so I don't she's really being ordered around by her mother like what her game counterpart faced. Well that's what I think anyway.
It is true that anime Lillie is more lively than her game counterpart and does battle with Shiron if necessary, but her crippling fear of touching Pokemon is equivalent to her game counterpart's scared, shy and timid attitude. I feel that in the anime, it's overcoming her fear of touching Pokemon for good and choosing to stand up to her mother after a fateful encounter with her at the Aether Foundation like in the games at some point is what could signify her change in character, hence her change in wardrobe. Heck, maybe Shiron evolving into Alolan Ninetails can also symbolize Lillie's "evolution".
 
Last edited:

SinnohEevee

Well-Known Member
Do you think Ash could have gone to Johto to do the Battle Frontier like he went to Kanto in AG?
 

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
Do you think Ash could have gone to Johto to do the Battle Frontier like he went to Kanto in AG?
I think you have the wrong thread. There is not suppose to be this kind of speculation unless it's a fill in the blanks speculation.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
If it counts as a controversial opinion, I believe that a Battle Frontier would have been SOMETHING to pad the lengthy DP arc, yes.

Alternatively, maybe they should have given Brock a proper arc for his swan song series. At least more buildup to him finding his occupation instead of the second to last episode.
 

Akkipeddi

White Yaksha
Coming back to the topic of Lillie, I know quite a few people are happy that she got her own pokemon in Shiron, but honestly I'm not completely on board with it. Yeah sure Vulpix is cute to have on the cast and Lillie could probably help a little by battling, and not becoming a damsel in distress in the anime, but her being a damsel in distress was what made her growth that much more meaningful in the games imo. After being kidnapped and being saved by the player in AF, it gave Lillie the courage to change her outfit and follow the trainer to find her mother, and eventually in the ending she set out to Kanto to treat her mother, and more importantly become a trainer after being inspired by the player.

In the anime her opportunity for growth is to eventually overcome her fear of touching pokemon. While that sounds alright, it just feels less less... interesting I guess than her game counterpart.
 
Last edited:
I've always wondered why fans always claimed that Dedenne was Bonnie's when it clearly wasn't since she wasn't a trainer.
Well she had Dedenne with her all the time, so I get why people acted like she owned Dedenne. Tbh, I was more upset with the fact that people wanted Clemont to catch more Pokemon for her, as if he was her pack mule...
 

Psychotic

NotLikeThis
And back we are to the usual XY and Serena bashing on this thread. Anyway, I have a controversial opinion about everyone's favourite series (DP). While I too loved the series (second favourite), I honestly felt four years was too long, and could have been wrapped up in 3 - 3.5 years. The huge one year gap between the 7th and 8th gym could should have been completed in 20 - 25 episodes instead of the super long 52 episodes. If that had happened, the extra half to one year could have showcased the sinnoh battle frontier probably.
I hate when people say this. All the great aspects we associate with DP are because of the slower pace. That gap specifically included a lot of non-gym content, including the first Paul vs Ash full battle, Team Galactic resolution, at least two contests, the Koury/Lyra Johto arc and the freaking grand festival. Not saying it was perfect(perhaps they shouldn`t have forced the sunnyshore power outage) but it was a necessary evil imo.

While I like XY, I wish it was 190 episodes like DP was. Just imagine how much more the writers could have done with Serena if she was given more time? Better rivalries/more showcases/captures/evolutions etc.
 

Akkipeddi

White Yaksha
I hate when people say this. All the great aspects we associate with DP are because of the slower pace. That gap specifically included a lot of non-gym content, including the first Paul vs Ash full battle, Team Galactic resolution, at least two contests, the Koury/Lyra Johto arc and the freaking grand festival. Not saying it was perfect(perhaps they shouldn`t have forced the sunnyshore power outage) but it was a necessary evil imo.

While I like XY, I wish it was 190 episodes like DP was. Just imagine how much more the writers could have done with Serena if she was given more time? Better rivalries/more showcases/captures/evolutions etc.

The Ash vs Paul battle, Team Galactic resolution, Johto arc and grand festival could have have been done in 30 episodes instead of the 52 episodes. I'm not arguing that the whole series of 191 episodes should have been reduced, but rather could have been better utilised by maybe adding a battle frontier if possible for the last 20 episodes that could have been cut from the 52 episode gap from the 7th to 8th gym.
 

Frozocrone

Miraculous!
I don't think thirty episodes would have been enough for a BF arc using Kanto as a reference but then again there were only five Frontier Brains (and meeting Caitlin in DP could have led nicely into BW come to think of it)
 
Coming back to the topic of Lillie, I know quite a few people are happy that she got her own pokemon in Shiron, but honestly I'm not completely on board with it. Yeah sure Vulpix is cute to have on the cast and Lillie could probably help a little by battling, and not becoming a damsel in distress in the anime, but her being a damsel in distress was what made her growth that much more meaningful in the games imo. After being kidnapped and being saved by the player in AF, it gave Lillie the courage to change her outfit and follow the trainer to find her mother, and eventually in the ending she set out to Kanto to treat her mother, and more importantly become a trainer after being inspired by the player.

In the anime her opportunity for growth is to eventually overcome her fear of touching pokemon. While that sounds alright, it just feels less less... interesting I guess than her game counterpart.
I can see what you mean, but I guess it's for a more personal reason than you. One of the things that resonated with me about Game!Lillie was how so many aspects of her story reflected things that have occurred to me in my life, right down to having a role model that gets me through things. She starts off as a damsel, but becomes a very strong and admirable girl by the end of the plot. The anime, while still having an arc she has to go through, just doesn't quite hit at home for me.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
The damsel part was at least mildly touched on. Ash has already body guarded her twice, just she's not COMPLETELY useless. Not to mention when memories return she could start to go into remission.

I could argue the issue is that they've already done the 'novice, damsel girl becomes strong and independent' several times now in the anime. They even had the same costume change gimmick for Serena. Right now it's hard to say what they're doing with Lillie, it feels a bit like a 'prequel' arc added onto the start of the games plot, though I do think it's in part because they want to do something a bit different this time round.
 
Last edited:

p96822

Evolve me please
Controversy time! I think that Serena loses work because it ether her fault or her Pokemon. It work much more then her predecessors May and Dawn because they got to confident in their skills. Also when you think about it only lost to Jessie and Shana because she made a mistake. Sometimes May got passes on her mistakes when she first started and she got though. While Dawn could have been given better criticism on her performace by the judges and not Zoey.
 

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
For a show that pushes passion and friendship as the key to victory, it always makes me chuckle that the winner of the Sinnoh League was a stoic guy who was very calculating, ordering Darkrai and Latios as his battle drones. It's hilarious how they broke their own message.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
For a show that pushes passion and friendship as the key to victory, it always makes me chuckle that the winner of the Sinnoh League was a stoic guy who was very calculating, ordering Darkrai and Latios as his battle drones. It's hilarious how they broke their own message.
I always wonder if it's a cynical 'moral victory' message (one that is DEFINITELY at play in Kalos). I always see Ash as someone who is also tragically hindered by his friendly, altruistic side, because it means he'll always be sidetracked helping others find their own goals and get on their feet over raising his team to the fullest. He'll always end up with a team of strong, heroic natured Pokemon that are fit for a benevolent role in life, but fail to be champion material.

I can see this coming into play in Alola, what with the potential of helping set up the league, bailing out Lillie in her personal turmoils, and what not, over training his team properly. I'm still expecting him to end up playing Santa Claus with his Z Crystals given how much the other students have taken interest in them as well. Granted following the games, the champion here is Kukui, who is as much a fun adult version of Ash as you can expect.
 
Last edited:

Deitylight

Legendary Trainer
For a show that pushes passion and friendship as the key to victory, it always makes me chuckle that the winner of the Sinnoh League was a stoic guy who was very calculating, ordering Darkrai and Latios as his battle drones. It's hilarious how they broke their own message.
We don't have the pleasure of seeing Tobias interacting with his Pokemon because he isn't the protagonist or a main character.
 

SinnohEevee

Well-Known Member
The Sinnoh League Conference showed strength matters more than friendship.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top