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Controversial Opinions - READ GUIDELINES IN FIRST POST *Possible Spoilers for SM*

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Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
Shh...you can't suggest anything other than that XY is the worst series in every way.
You do realize there are still plenty of users here who support the XY series.

Really don't see how Greninja hogged things when Talonflame was shoved in our faces every gym battle and everyone but Noivern got at least one gym victory, if not multiple, while Greninja didn't start taking up the screen until Olympia (and really not until after).

I could be wrong (since I'm not among the people who feel this way), but perhaps the notion that Greninja hogged so much screentime is rooted in its story arc still being so fresh in viewers' minds and that, for much of XY&Z, Greninja got more focus than the rest of Ash's Pokémon. But while Greninja got a lot of focus during the Ash-Greninja arc, that story arc really only encompassed approximately 22 episodes, including the Team Flare climax. That's 22 episodes out of 140. Outside of the Ash-Greninja arc, it was mostly showcased during Gym battles. I wouldn't really consider that hogging too much screentime.
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
Battles that involved mega evolution and the Ash Greninja form seemed to be lacking any strategy to me other than being a power vs power match up and I found mega evolution in general to be almost DEM like even though it's not if you get what I'm saying.
 

Akkipeddi

All set to be a nice guy
Shh...you can't suggest anything other than that XY is the worst series in every way.

Yeah, to me Infernape hogged the most screentime and then Charizard, since both really took away from their respective regional teams. I mean, they're understandable, at least in Infernape's case, but taking out at least 2 Pokemon per gym battle from Fantina on, usually the ace, really shafts the others. Charizard, meanwhile, started to take from the Johto team, but that's neither here nor there. Really don't see how Greninja hogged things when Talonflame was shoved in our faces every gym battle and everyone but Noivern got at least one gym victory, if not multiple, while Greninja didn't start taking up the screen until Olympia (and really not until after).

Yep exactly. I don't know how people can say Greninja hogged much of the screen time away. In fact while it was a Froakie and Frogadier, it hardly got any screen time, and a lot of focus actually went to the other pokemon. Goomy finished its whole development till it evolved and got released, Fletchinder and Talonfalme appeared in almost all gyms, and Hawlucha had decent showings as well. The only pokemon who really did suffer was Noibat to Noivern, but then again, that was not Greninja's fault as Noivern was very late in to the season and didn't have much time to prove itself.

And as you rightly mentioned about DP, forget Infernape, much of the gyms used to he dominated by Chimchar itself so it just got a lot more when it evolved to Infernape, and of course it defeated half of Paul's team. And I'm saying all this despite Infernape and DP being my second favorite Ash pokemon and series.
 

Darthlord7

The Smug Pikachu
Battles that involved mega evolution and the Ash Greninja form seemed to be lacking any strategy to me other than being a power vs power match up and I found mega evolution in general to be almost DEM like even though it's not if you get what I'm saying.

The only time that Mega Evolution was used for strategy was during Tierno vs Sawyer where Mega Sceptile's Lightning Rod made Tierno's Raichu practically useless in their battle. Other than that I agree with you.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Battles that involved mega evolution and the Ash Greninja form seemed to be lacking any strategy to me other than being a power vs power match up and I found mega evolution in general to be almost DEM like even though it's not if you get what I'm saying.

Truthfully there tends to be a lack of strategic matches in the Pokemon series as a whole (though I know DP is popular for having a fair few). I am at least glad we're past 'pity badges', but too often the show resorts to either 'power spam' fests or using the current generation's power up or a deus ex machina of some kind. The times the main trainers are forced to be clever in some way in how they battle are actually rather rare besides the big BIG matches like the gym/league ones (and even then cheap displays can seep in).

And if I hear 'Dodge!' as a freakin' strategy display in the anime once more I'm going to crack. Dodge is the most laughably stupid and pointless command I've ever heard. Even 'Dodge left or right' would be less redundant but no. 'Pokemon! Don't get hit!' 'Hah, that trainer is so clever and strategic.' Who invented that?
 
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Akkipeddi

All set to be a nice guy
Battles that involved mega evolution and the Ash Greninja form seemed to be lacking any strategy to me other than being a power vs power match up and I found mega evolution in general to be almost DEM like even though it's not if you get what I'm saying.

In general power vs power battles have always been shown in the anime. Look at Ash vs Paul, everyone's most adored match. There were a lot of strategies in the match, but ultimately the finish between Infernape and Electivire vs a battle of brute force. Super blaze Infernape spamming Flamethrower and Flare Blitz to finish off Electivire. In Ash Greninja vs Mega Charizard X there was quite a bit of strategy from both ends, such as using Water Shurikken to block Thunderpunch, and to use it on the ground to block blast burn initially.

And sure Ash Greninja was given as an alternative to a mega, but I disagree extremely that it was a DEM. A whole arc was dedicated to perfecting the synchronisity, so they definitely worked to perfect the form. So yeah, I feel that megas didn't really change the way battles were done. In fact true DEM seems to be the use of Z moves. Just unleash a super powerful move in a moment of pinch to win you a game. And apparently Ash miraculously perfecting Z moves off screen is perfectly 'normal' and is not questioned.
 
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Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
And if I hear 'Dodge!' as a freakin' strategy display in the anime once more I'm going to crack. Dodge is the most laughably stupid and pointless command I've ever heard. Even 'Dodge left or right' would be less redundant but no. 'Pokemon! Don't get hit!' 'Hah, that trainer is so clever and strategic.' Who invented that?

"Dodge" may seem like a pointless command (since you would think it would be rather obvious that the Pokémon would avoid getting hit), but sometimes, a Trainer may not want their Pokémon to dodge a move. Instead, a Trainer may want their Pokémon to actually take or tank a hit, as part of their strategy. So, "Dodge" is not as pointless a command as it may seem.

It's still overused, though.
 

Frozocrone

Miraculous!
I've always considered 'dodge' to be the equivalent of 'look out!', as in the trainer cares for the Pokemon and doesn't want it to get hurt...
 
To me, dodge was kinda scratchy but ok in my books, but it made more sense to say "dodge and use _____!" rather than a simple "dodge!".
 

Remix2

Well-Known Member
In general power vs power battles have always been shown in the anime. Look at Ash vs Paul, everyone's most adored match. There were a lot of strategies in the match, but ultimately the finish between Infernape and Electivire vs a battle of brute force. Super blaze Infernape spamming Flamethrower and Flare Blitz to finish off Electivire. In Ash Greninja vs Mega Charizard X there was quite a bit of strategy from both ends, such as using Water Shurikken to block Thunderpunch, and to use it on the ground to block blast burn initially.

And sure Ash Greninja was given as an alternative to a mega, but I disagree extremely that it was a DEM. A whole arc was dedicated to perfecting the synchronisity, so they definitely worked to perfect the form. So yeah, I feel that megas didn't really change the way battles were done. In fact true DEM seems to be the use of Z moves. Just unleash a super powerful move in a moment of pinch to win you a game. And apparently Ash miraculously perfecting Z moves off screen is perfectly 'normal' and is not questioned.

Agree with you on z moves, where mega doesn't alway automatically win the battle(see korrina gym battle), while z move so far in the anime is basically oh you losing just click the button on the ring and you win automatically.

seriously if all battle are solved by one hit z moves then it going to the battles dull.
 
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Akkipeddi

All set to be a nice guy
Dodge may be overused but it doesn't mean that it's not strategic since the trainer has to call the pokemon to dodge at the right time to avoid an attack. It shows the trainers and Pokemon's judgement, and usually if the pokemon dodges at the right moment, it gives it the right moment to strike back at the opponent.
 

mystic9899

Pokemon fan
dodge may be pretty overused and annoying, but i'd think a trainer would be pretty stupid not to tell their pokemon to dodge an attack that's about to hit them.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Battles that involved mega evolution and the Ash Greninja form seemed to be lacking any strategy to me other than being a power vs power match up and I found mega evolution in general to be almost DEM like even though it's not if you get what I'm saying.

Wrong. Ash-Greninja riding and skating on its frozen blades of kunai was a pretty a good strategy implemented by Ash, which helped Ash-Greninja win the battle against Mega Abomasnow. Ash-Greninja slamming its Shuriken onto the ground to neutralize Blast Burn was also a pretty clever call by Ash in the Kalos League finals. Sure the battles displayed a lot of power, but Ash's strategizing was also evident in the battles.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Dodge may be overused but it doesn't mean that it's not strategic since the trainer has to call the pokemon to dodge at the right time to avoid an attack. It shows the trainers and Pokemon's judgement, and usually if the pokemon dodges at the right moment, it gives it the right moment to strike back at the opponent.

Let me rephrase it though, it's annoying when matches SPAM 'Dodge!' as the trainer's one display of strategy. Tons of battles where the pattern is just 'Dodge!' then '*insert generic attack*'. That's so freaking dull. It's like a character endlessly no-selling and then throwing a punch, trying in the cheapest most no brainer manner to make them look untouchable. There's absolutely no investment in watching that for a whole match, and sometimes that was all they had to show a character was smart and tactical (Serena, Serena, a thousand times Serena).

I remember that DP episode with the powerful Magikarp battle. It was supposed to be eventful this Magikarp could fight and evade so well but it was just the trainer calling 'Dodge!' 'Dodge!' 'Dodge!' over and over. It made it so boring.

Even just expanding it a little 'Dodge left' or 'Use a specific attack to Dodge' to make it more unique. Such commands have been used at odd times before so it doesn't seem beyond them.

Agree with you on z moves, where mega doesn't alway automatically win the battle(see korrina gym battle), while z move so far in the anime is basically oh you losing just click the button on the ring and you win automatically.

seriously if all battle are solved by one hit z moves then it going to the battles dull.

Well in the first Kahuna battle it is shown possible to avoid a Z Move (it also ties into my above example since Pikachu at least used a specific attack to dodge it, imagine how damn annoying and cheap it would have been if it was 'Dodge!' *generic summersault animation*). It would be nice to see it as a fallible move a bit more often though, and preferably not always the protagonist being the only ones who can evade it.
 
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lemoncatpower

Cynical Optimist
Let me rephrase it though, it's annoying when matches SPAM 'Dodge!' as the trainer's one display of strategy. Tons of battles where the pattern is just 'Dodge!' then '*insert generic attack*'. That's so freaking dull. It's like a character endlessly no-selling and then throwing a punch, trying in the cheapest most no brainer manner to make them look untouchable. There's absolutely no investment in watching that for a whole match, and sometimes that was all they had to show a character was smart and tactical (Serena, Serena, a thousand times Serena).

I remember that DP episode with the powerful Magikarp battle. It was supposed to be eventful this Magikarp could fight and evade so well but it was just the trainer calling 'Dodge!' 'Dodge!' 'Dodge!' over and over. It made it so boring.

Even just expanding it a little 'Dodge left' or 'Use a specific attack to Dodge' to make it more unique. Such commands have been used at odd times before so it doesn't seem beyond them.



Well in the first Kahuna battle it is shown possible to avoid a Z Move (it also ties into my above example since Pikachu at least used a specific attack to dodge it, imagine how damn annoying and cheap it would have been if it was 'Dodge!' *generic summersault animation*). It would be nice to see it as a fallible move a bit more often though, and preferably not always the protagonist being the only ones who can evade it.

to be fair, it'd be hard to always know which way the pokemon should dodge and the pokemon just might know the best way. Also since dodge is all up to the pokemon mostly anyways, it sort of gives them some freedom in the battle at least :p I understand it being a boring command but trusting your pokemon to dodge in the way they think is the best way could sometimes be seen as a good thing in my opinion.
 

UltimateNinja

Praying for the holy relics
Greninja got the most screentime after XY&Z started, so pretty much in the last third of the series. Infernape got more development and started to overshadow the other pokemon after the Lake Acuity battle when Chimchar evolved into Monferno. Also the last third of the series. The other pokemon got a couple of episodes (Grotle evolving/Buizel learning Ice Punch/Noibat learning new moves/evolves, Goodra's cameo for the league etc.).

Greninja and Infernape are pretty even when it comes to screentime stealing.
 

mystic9899

Pokemon fan
i think that both of them had about the same screentime. although it might seem like greninja had more since xy had 1 less year than dp.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
This. That was the case in XY&Z especially seeing as Greninja received an unfair amount of attention while everyone minus Pikachu got shafted.

If the alternative is no stand out pokemon ala BW, ill prefer the method of giving focus to a cool pokemon yes
 
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