I'd argue it started before Lake Acuity. In all of the Hearthome, Canalave and Snowpoint Gym Battles, Chimchar took out two Pokemon each, including the ace in at least Snowpoint. (I think Hearthome as well, but I can't quite remember) Include the tag battle, an extra battle with Paul and all of that before Lake Acuity...I mean, this is why I can't say Greninja hogged more time than Infernape. And saying 1/3 of the series is still vastly different, since 1/3 in XY is about 50 episodes, while in DP it's a good 20 more.
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Controversial Opinions - READ GUIDELINES IN FIRST POST *Possible Spoilers for SM*
- Thread starter U.N. Owen
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I'd argue it started before Lake Acuity. In all of the Hearthome, Canalave and Snowpoint Gym Battles, Chimchar took out two Pokemon each, including the ace in at least Snowpoint. (I think Hearthome as well, but I can't quite remember) Include the tag battle, an extra battle with Paul and all of that before Lake Acuity...I mean, this is why I can't say Greninja hogged more time than Infernape. And saying 1/3 of the series is still vastly different, since 1/3 in XY is about 50 episodes, while in DP it's a good 20 more.
Here's a controversial opinion: I love that Pikachu got to take out Metagross and Tyranitar in the Kalos League.
A lot of people have been pissed by that for reasons I can't comprehend, but I was absolutely ecstatic to watch Ash's first Pokemon take down powerhouses because that is Pikachu's true power when it's not reset at the start of every region. It is an absolute beast.
A lot of people have been pissed by that for reasons I can't comprehend, but I was absolutely ecstatic to watch Ash's first Pokemon take down powerhouses because that is Pikachu's true power when it's not reset at the start of every region. It is an absolute beast.
lemoncatpower
Cynical Optimist
I remember some of the complaints were around Goodra doing poorly in both league battles and Noivern not doing that great either, while Pikachu is getting psuedo-destroying glory, even though Goodra is the psuedo.
Well that's what happens when Ash gets a rushed Noivern. With its limited experience as Noibat and not that many battles under its belt, performing that poorly only makes sense.
Same can be said for Goodra. It can barely move and it doesn't have a lot of experience either.
Pokegirl Fan~
Liko>>>>>Ash
It's because it's not a final form Pokemon, therefore it's "too weak" to take out stronger powerhouses.
And also because both Goodra and Noivern were poorly developed and did poorly in the league.
Gonna have to disagree with this here. Maybe Goodra's development was rushed, certainly, but it wasn't necessarily poor. It went from a weak Goomy that was afraid of Dedenne, of all things, to being able to put up a fight with no fear against Slurpuff, showcasing that it had gotten over its fear of Fairy types and still fighting it to a draw with all of two moves (and Bisharp was a poor matchup thanks to Guillotine). Likewise, perhaps Noibat/Noivern wasn't the best in the battle department, but nor was that where his development lay. Considering we got a good 5+ episodes focusing on Noibat amidst everything else that trained him to fly and start becoming a battler in the first place. He didn't have time to develop as a battler, which clearly wasn't the ultimate intent given he was never used in a gym, but he did develop well.
Regardless, I liked Pikachu wrecking shop anyway.
Pokegirl Fan~
Liko>>>>>Ash
Fair enough. I guess what I meant to say was that both could have done better in battles.
Pikachu doing well in the league didn't bother me, it might have in earlier series where he 'god-mod-chu' and won through contrived power tricks and type-defying WTF moments, but Pikachu in later series is the fragile speedster, the one who has reasonable but realistic power and uses stealth and strategy to make up not being able to tank everything in his path. I loved how he used the forest themed battlefield.
To compare I usually found Greninja's power-fests kind of dull. Ash screaming and posing and Greninja pulling big energy balls and shurikens out of nowhere, it's like watching a battle made of nothing but Z-Moves.
Noivern and Goodra doing poorly (or arguably even just mediocrely, they weren't useless per se) made sense because Ash hadn't raised them nearly as long as Pikachu, it was contrived to have Noivern fully evolved and doing as well as it was within all it had done before then, and it's not like Ash didn't have enough time to do more. I kind of liked that, easing up on the plot armour and ranking the Pokemon realistically according to actual experience.
To compare I usually found Greninja's power-fests kind of dull. Ash screaming and posing and Greninja pulling big energy balls and shurikens out of nowhere, it's like watching a battle made of nothing but Z-Moves.
Noivern and Goodra doing poorly (or arguably even just mediocrely, they weren't useless per se) made sense because Ash hadn't raised them nearly as long as Pikachu, it was contrived to have Noivern fully evolved and doing as well as it was within all it had done before then, and it's not like Ash didn't have enough time to do more. I kind of liked that, easing up on the plot armour and ranking the Pokemon realistically according to actual experience.
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TheWanderingMist
Paladin of the Snow Queen
That was controversial? I loved that Pikachu took down Alain's 2 pseudo-legendaries, and with Tyranitaar, he didn't even have any help. Makes you wonder if Pikachu could've taken on Mega Charizard if he had been at full power.
Pokegirl Fan~
Liko>>>>>Ash
I guess if it was at full battle it may tie against Mega Charizard and I also think Pikachu could arguably be stronger than Ash-Greninja especially since its been around more and probably has a way stronger bond than Ash has with Greninja. That whole thing with Greninja still seemed to be out of left field for me and plus it's only been on the cast for a short amount of time compared to Pikachu.
Xenon Blue
No Hard Feelings
I don't have an issue with trainers telling their Pokemon to dodge. What I have an issue with is the opponent not taking advantage of the fact that when you dodge you have commited to an option and can easily force it to an unavoidable situation (i.e when you jump you can't just change the trajectory until you land). Sometimes trainers do take advantage of "panic" dodges, but that rarely happens and often dodging is always correct. I wish we get more situations where not dodging and taking the hit properly is more beneficial than dodging mindlessly and forcing yourself into a worse situation.
345ash-greninja
Auto-Memories Doll
Mega Charizard X defeated an E4 Mega despite being weakened by nine Megas beforehand, so no, Pikachu stood no chance against Mega Charizard X. Only Ash-Greninja was on the level to put up a fight against Mega Charizard X for 8 minutes and despite having the track record of going toe to toe with Diantha's Mega Gardevoir, still couldn't t take it out. Pikachu also would never come close to defeating Mega Sceptile, judging from the Sawyer battle. Pikachu's performance at the League was outstanding, but Mega Charizard X, Ash-Greninja and Mega Sceptile were on a different level at the League.
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Illusio
No words, only rage
I disagree, while it is true Noibat had some development, I wouldn't say he developed well. He only had five episodes of focus including hid birth and evolution, and all five were spread out with very little indication that Noibat got any other attention then that. Adding to the fact that he was a baby to start out with, who usually have longer growths, and it's pretty apparent his development was rushed at best and his evolution was forced and contrived.
Goodra I would say had decent development all things considered, battle-wise though it was pretty lackluster.
Pretty much, yeah.
In terms of character development, Goodra was superior but was lackluster battle-wise.
Noivern was lackluster in both character development and the battle aspect.
SinnohEevee
Well-Known Member
Alain's MCX is a Mary Sue.
UltimateNinja
Praying for the holy relics
Pikachu winning against them wasn't the problem, the problem was that other pokemon (Goodra and Noivern) got shafted for that matter. We'll see that electric rat enough times in the future, while Noivern and Goodra only had limited time to shine. Especially since Pikachu get a "reset" every one of two series either way.
Goodra and Noivern kicking *** wouldn't make sense given their lackluster battle record.
Aren't you guys the ones who always complain about DEM and stuff like that? Taking Pokemon with little experience and then treating them as these aces would have been bad writing.
Also, why are people angry about Pikachu? Yes, Pikachu will get spotlight again, but Greninja took away just as much, if not even more screentime. Let's just remember the first Kalos League battle. Instead of using the opportunity to give some spotlight to Goodra and Noivern, the writers thought it'd be brilliant to shove some more Ash-Greninja down our throats, just to show us how amazing it is.
345ash-greninja
Auto-Memories Doll
Sounds nonsense to me. Mega Charizard X was shown sweeping Trevor's team, while Ash-Greninja was only shown KO'ing the Altaria and the rest of the battle was skipped. It was a partiality on the writers' part on Mega Charizard X to show it sweeping and not so in the case of Ash-Greninja (which it most probably did). Mega Charizard X was the one who was more shoved down to our throats.
Pokegirl Fan~
Liko>>>>>Ash
They were both shoved down our throats.
I honestly didn't care for the Kalos League and it felt mediocre in general.
Frozocrone
Miraculous!
Eh, I think Greninja was more prominent, Lysandre made the comment that Ash and Greninja were the talk of the league, not Alain who was shown to have swept Remo easily.
It's more prominent in XYZ13 where it was used twice in the same episode when Noivern (who was still a bat) had like, one episode of battle experience and Ash still hadn't got a sixth for the league.
It's more prominent in XYZ13 where it was used twice in the same episode when Noivern (who was still a bat) had like, one episode of battle experience and Ash still hadn't got a sixth for the league.
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