Could Ash win against prime Red?

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Origins Mewtwo is considerably weaker than anime Mewtwo
Ash would beat red to the ground lol. Esp now but anyway for all the naysayers when ash becomes world champion at the end of journeys it would be without a doubt a fact he's stronger then red

 

[AJ97]

For the purpose of this question, I am going to look at the Red from Pokemon Origins.
The answer to this question is simply impossible because both these characters belong to alternate Universes.
One key difference is the lack of a regional league in Red's Universe compared to that of Ash's.

This could mean one of two things.
1) The Elite four in Ash's universe are considerably stronger and there is a lot more competition. Hence, there is a regional league to select the winner who challenges the elite four.
2) The Gym leaders in Red's Universe are far stronger than the anime versions. Hence, it is almost impossible for the regular challenger to collect all 8 pages and only the truly elite talented trainers like Red and Blue end up collecting all the badges.

Taking this into consideration, one could easily argue one is better than the other using one of the above assumptions.

That said, to keep it fair to both Red and Ash, let us assume that all the Gym Leaders/ Elite Four in the anime and the Games are of equal levels of strength.

Taking this into consideration, Red would already be far above Ash's level of strength. Ash is still far from coming close to the level of an elite four member.
In the Red Universe, Blue was someone who was much stronger than the elite four and Red managed to defeat both the Elite four and Blue putting him far above Ash's level already.

To add to that, while the Origin's Mewtwo could be argued to be weaker than the Anime Mewtwo, we can look at it in a more simpler way.
Mewtwo was >>>> Blue who is a champion tier trainer and this is true even in the anime, where Mewtwo is definitely stronger than the likes of Cynthia, Diantha and even Leon. It's one of those special legendary Pokemon > Champion tier.

Red is a special champion who actually defeated this Mewtwo and captured it which is again a very impressive feat.

Based of all these feats, Red is a far superior trainer than Ash. Even if you look at achievements, none of Ash's achievements come close to beating an Elite Four/ Regional Champion level of achievement and he has not captured or defeated a Special Legendary Pokemon by himself, which is stronger than Regional Champion tier.

Edit:

Claiming Ash is stronger than Red would imply, the Elite four in the Origin's Universe are weaker than regular trainers in the anime Universe.
This seems like too harsh of an assumption to make to simply try to argue Ash is better than Red.

If Ash does enter the Master Class, beats elite four members/ regional champions, that would definitely be something noteworthy that would greatly affect Ash's standing.

Finally, another key point I forgot to discuss, is the time period. Red accomplished something much superior in the fraction of the time Ash has taken and the latter isn't even close to the same level of achievement. So even if Ash does become the PWC. There will always be the argument that if Red had the same level of time to train after becoming Kanto's champion, he would still be far superior to Ash.

If Elite four Lance was capable of becoming the second strongest trainer in the world, then someone like Red (Who was far stronger with much greater potential), should be able to achieve a lot more.

 

[SH65]

For the purpose of this question, I am going to look at the Red from Pokemon Origins.
The answer to this question is simply impossible because both these characters belong to alternate Universes.
One key difference is the lack of a regional league in Red's Universe compared to that of Ash's.

This could mean one of two things.
1) The Elite four in Ash's universe are considerably stronger and there is a lot more competition. Hence, there is a regional league to select the winner who challenges the elite four.
2) The Gym leaders in Red's Universe are far stronger than the anime versions. Hence, it is almost impossible for the regular challenger to collect all 8 pages and only the truly elite talented trainers like Red and Blue end up collecting all the badges.

Taking this into consideration, one could easily argue one is better than the other using one of the above assumptions.

That said, to keep it fair to both Red and Ash, let us assume that all the Gym Leaders/ Elite Four in the anime and the Games are of equal levels of strength.

Taking this into consideration, Red would already be far above Ash's level of strength. Ash is still far from coming close to the level of an elite four member.
In the Red Universe, Blue was someone who was much stronger than the elite four and Red managed to defeat both the Elite four and Blue putting him far above Ash's level already.

To add to that, while the Origin's Mewtwo could be argued to be weaker than the Anime Mewtwo, we can look at it in a more simpler way.
Mewtwo was >>>> Blue who is a champion tier trainer and this is true even in the anime, where Mewtwo is definitely stronger than the likes of Cynthia, Diantha and even Leon. It's one of those special legendary Pokemon > Champion tier.

Red is a special champion who actually defeated this Mewtwo and captured it which is again a very impressive feat.

Based of all these feats, Red is a far superior trainer than Ash. Even if you look at achievements, none of Ash's achievements come close to beating an Elite Four/ Regional Champion level of achievement and he has not captured or defeated a Special Legendary Pokemon by himself, which is stronger than Regional Champion tier.

Edit:

Claiming Ash is stronger than Red would imply, the Elite four in the Origin's Universe are weaker than regular trainers in the anime Universe.
This seems like too harsh of an assumption to make to simply try to argue Ash is better than Red.

If Ash does enter the Master Class, beats elite four members/ regional champions, that would definitely be something noteworthy that would greatly affect Ash's standing.

Finally, another key point I forgot to discuss, is the time period. Red accomplished something much superior in the fraction of the time Ash has taken and the latter isn't even close to the same level of achievement. So even if Ash does become the PWC. There will always be the argument that if Red had the same level of time to train after becoming Kanto's champion, he would still be far superior to Ash.

If Elite four Lance was capable of becoming the second strongest trainer in the world, then someone like Red (Who was far stronger with much greater potential), should be able to achieve a lot more.

Um... the problem I have with this that equaling them out doesn't really work and feels like a copout and I think your giving Red way too much credit.

 

[AJ97]

Um... the problem I have with this that equaling them out doesn't really work and feels like a copout and I think your giving Red way too much credit.

I could just as much argue not equalling them would be giving Ash way too much Credit. For example, the Brock and Misty in Red's universe were far more competent and stronger than the Brock/ Misty in the anime.

Equalling both of them would be fairest choice.

Like for instance, Lance in the anime universe is the second strongest trainer in the world. Even if the Lance from Red's Universe is weaker, are you going to argue that he is weaker than all the trainers Ash has defeated so far in the anime universe?

That would be skewing the argument too much in favour of Ash.

 

[k6666]

Ash gonna beat red with Z power pikachu , gigantimax charizard, blaze infernape, mega sceptile, ash greninja and whatever his six is

 

[SH65]

I could just as much argue not equalling them would be giving Ash way too much Credit. For example, the Brock and Misty in Red's universe were far more competent and stronger than the Brock/ Misty in the anime.

Equalling both of them would be fairest choice.

Like for instance, Lance in the anime universe is the second strongest trainer in the world. Even if the Lance from Red's Universe is weaker, are you going to argue that he is weaker than all the trainers Ash has defeated so far in the anime universe?

That would be skewing the argument too much in favour of Ash.

I would think it would be better to show them at there best if you have to equal them out to give Red a chance then what does that say about him. Also Brock and Misty are far stronger in the anime than in Origins.

 

[Shadao]

Taking this into consideration, Red would already be far above Ash's level of strength. Ash is still far from coming close to the level of an elite four member.
In the Red Universe, Blue was someone who was much stronger than the elite four and Red managed to defeat both the Elite four and Blue putting him far above Ash's level already.

To add to that, while the Origin's Mewtwo could be argued to be weaker than the Anime Mewtwo, we can look at it in a more simpler way.
Mewtwo was >>>> Blue who is a champion tier trainer and this is true even in the anime, where Mewtwo is definitely stronger than the likes of Cynthia, Diantha and even Leon. It's one of those special legendary Pokemon > Champion tier.

Red is a special champion who actually defeated this Mewtwo and captured it which is again a very impressive feat.

Based of all these feats, Red is a far superior trainer than Ash. Even if you look at achievements, none of Ash's achievements come close to beating an Elite Four/ Regional Champion level of achievement and he has not captured or defeated a Special Legendary Pokemon by himself, which is stronger than Regional Champion tier

Special? If you look during the Hall of Fame scene, you will notice that Red is not the only one who made into the records. Many trainers have come and gone through that Hall. What Red does is nothing special in the grand scheme of things, just special for the player (like Ash winning the Alola League is special for him but not for the entire world). And while Mewtwo is indeed an absurdly powerful Pokémon in Origins, it is still treated like a wild, berserk animal rather than a human-intelligent being that knows what it's doing in the main anime. These subtle differences tells us achievement comparisons do not mean anything in this hypothetical match up. What really matters is the kind of Pokémon you bring, and the strategies used in the fight.

Claiming Ash is stronger than Red would imply, the Elite four in the Origin's Universe are weaker than regular trainers in the anime Universe.
This seems like too harsh of an assumption to make to simply try to argue Ash is better than Red.

If Ash does enter the Master Class, beats elite four members/ regional champions, that would definitely be something noteworthy that would greatly affect Ash's standing.

Finally, another key point I forgot to discuss, is the time period. Red accomplished something much superior in the fraction of the time Ash has taken and the latter isn't even close to the same level of achievement. So even if Ash does become the PWC. There will always be the argument that if Red had the same level of time to train after becoming Kanto's champion, he would still be far superior to Ash.

If Elite four Lance was capable of becoming the second strongest trainer in the world, then someone like Red (Who was far stronger with much greater potential), should be able to achieve a lot more.

Of course I would state that the Origins' universe is weaker than regular trainers in the anime universe because that's how it is. To say that Lance from Origins is somehow on equal strength with Lance from the anime is like arguing that Falkner from the games is just as strong as Falkner from the anime (who uses a Pidgeot as his ace Pokémon). Trying to equate the two on the same level of power is a tall poppy syndrome if you will.

And trying to say that Red would accomplished something superior in the fraction of the time that Ash took is laughable. By the logic of the anime never allowing Ash to age, Ash has managed go from an amateur rookie to an elite trainer and Pokémon Champion in less than a year. And a year younger than Red to boot. And heck, if the someone like Bea can mock Ash's victory over Korrina by saying that Korrina is a novice compared to her, then why wouldn't I consider the Origins Elite Four to be wimps?

But I will say this. By the whims of the writer, it will be a close battle and not a curbstomp that many would imply. And quite frankly, that's what the two, Ash and Red, would want. An actual, worthy opponent that provides a challenge for a change.

 

[AJ97]

Special? If you look during the Hall of Fame scene, you will notice that Red is not the only one who made into the records. Many trainers have come and gone through that Hall. What Red does is nothing special in the grand scheme of things, just special for the player (like Ash winning the Alola League is special for him but not for the entire world). And while Mewtwo is indeed an absurdly powerful Pokémon in Origins, it is still treated like a wild, berserk animal rather than a human-intelligent being that knows what it's doing in the main anime. These subtle differences tells us achievement comparisons do not mean anything in this hypothetical match up. What really matters is the kind of Pokémon you bring, and the strategies used in the fight.

1) So what if there were other people in the hall of fame before Red? Are you saying there were no Champions Before Cynthia, Steven etc? Having Champions in the past does not invalidate Red's achievement. Like Lance is obviously much younger than Professor Oak for example. There must've been a lot of different champions/ elite four members in the past. Like even in the anime, we see young Flint challenge the regional League and work his way up. So this argument completely invalidates your point.

2) So what if it isn't a "Human Intelligent being"? I never even got into the is Origins Mewtwo stronger than Anime Mewtwo debate. Origins Mewtwo is > Regional Champion tier. Like in the anime for example, Rayquaza could be given a similar position or even Eternatus for example. Would you consider those Legendaries "Human-intelligent"? They fall in the same berserk animal bracket and have displayed levels of strength greater than regional champion tier. Mewtwo totally destroyed Blue who is a confirmed regional champion and Red defeated and captured Mewtwo.


Of course I would state that the Origins' universe is weaker than regular trainers in the anime universe because that's how it is. To say that Lance from Origins is somehow on equal strength with Lance from the anime is like arguing that Falkner from the games is just as strong as Falkner from the anime (who uses a Pidgeot as his ace Pokémon). Trying to equate the two on the same level of power is a tall poppy syndrome if you will.

And trying to say that Red would accomplished something superior in the fraction of the time that Ash took is laughable. By the logic of the anime never allowing Ash to age, Ash has managed go from an amateur rookie to an elite trainer and Pokémon Champion in less than a year. And a year younger than Red to boot. And heck, if the someone like Bea can mock Ash's victory over Korrina by saying that Korrina is a novice compared to her, then why wouldn't I consider the Origins Elite Four to be wimps?

But I will say this. By the whims of the writer, it will be a close battle and not a curbstomp that many would imply. And quite frankly, that's what the two, Ash and Red, would want. An actual, worthy opponent that provides a challenge for a change.

1) I don't even know why you mentioned Falkner as he isn't even in Origins. But even if he is, Origins clearly shows that gym leaders adjust their team based on their challenger. Ash was an experienced trainer with a full team when he challenged Falkner. Hence, he used Pidgeot in his battle. This is evident when you rematch Falkner in the HG/SS games. Otherwise, gym leaders adjust their teams based on the challenger. In the origins series, Brock asks Red how many badges he has and selectively picks his team. Falkner would not use a PIdgeot against a newbie trainer just starting off.

2) Irrespective of Ash's age, Grand Festival / Pokemon Leagues are held every year. So if Ash actually attended these different events, it already disproves the fact that Ash has taken a lot more time than a year.

3) Ash is not a Pokemon Champion.... He won the Alola Regional League. If you call Ash a Champion with that win, then would James be the 8th strongest trainer and Gladion the second strongest trainer? Ash already achieved a similar feat back in the Orange Islands

3)Your Bea point makes no sense.


You clearly seem prejudiced against Red lol. Assumptions are easy to make. Like I said earlier, if I wanted to argue Ash is stronger, I could simply skew the points in favour of Ash like you have done and I could do exactly the same for Red. There is no definitive way to conclude whether the Origin Universe or Anime Universe Trainers are superior.

At the end of the day, Red beat Elite four members and is a Regional Champion. This is simply something Ash hasn't done or come close to. You also need to realise that the Origins and Anime have vastly different Plot Points. In Origins at least, it is based off the games where the player always becomes the strongest trainer. The Player ALWAYS becomes the strongest trainer while completing every single Pokemon Game.
While this was supposed to be the case in the anime as well, in order to extend it, they simply have stalled Ash's growth.

So yes, he does not have the same feats Read has.

 

[AJ97]

I would think it would be better to show them at there best if you have to equal them out to give Red a chance then what does that say about him. Also Brock and Misty are far stronger in the anime than in Origins.

1) If you want to compare the anime and origins Brock and Misty, you need to compare the Kanto Brock and Misty with the Origins Brock and Misty. Or it simply wouldn't be fair. This would be like comparing current Lance to Origins Lance.

2) Lol. I never said I have to equal them out to give Red a chance. If they aren't equalled out, I could just as easily argue Red or Ash is superior by using biased points in favour of the particular character. This simply would involve a lot of assumptions and wouldn't be fair.

 

[SH65]

1) I don't even know why you mentioned Falkner as he isn't even in Origins. But even if he is, Origins clearly shows that gym leaders adjust their team based on their challenger. Ash was an experienced trainer with a full team when he challenged Falkner. Hence, he used Pidgeot in his battle. This is evident when you rematch Falkner in the HG/SS games. Otherwise, gym leaders adjust their teams based on the challenger. In the origins series, Brock asks Red how many badges he has and selectively picks his team. Falkner would not use a PIdgeot against a newbie trainer just starting off.

2) Irrespective of Ash's age, Grand Festival / Pokemon Leagues are held every year. So if Ash actually attended these different events, it already disproves the fact that Ash has taken a lot more time than a year.

3) Ash is not a Pokemon Champion.... He won the Alola Regional League. If you call Ash a Champion with that win, then would James be the 8th strongest trainer and Gladion the second strongest trainer? Ash already achieved a similar feat back in the Orange Islands

3)Your Bea point makes no sense.


You clearly seem prejudiced against Red lol. Assumptions are easy to make. Like I said earlier, if I wanted to argue Ash is stronger, I could simply skew the points in favour of Ash like you have done and I could do exactly the same for Red. There is no definitive way to conclude whether the Origin Universe or Anime Universe Trainers are superior.

At the end of the day, Red beat Elite four members and is a Regional Champion. This is simply something Ash hasn't done or come close to. You also need to realise that the Origins and Anime have vastly different Plot Points. In Origins at least, it is based off the games where the player always becomes the strongest trainer. The Player ALWAYS becomes the strongest trainer while completing every single Pokemon Game.
While this was supposed to be the case in the anime as well, in order to extend it, they simply have stalled Ash's growth.

So yes, he does not have the same feats Read has.

You where all ready reaching to make Origins Red look good.

1) If you want to compare the anime and origins Brock and Misty, you need to compare the Kanto Brock and Misty with the Origins Brock and Misty. Or it simply wouldn't be fair. This would be like comparing current Lance to Origins Lance.

2) Lol. I never said I have to equal them out to give Red a chance. If they aren't equalled out, I could just as easily argue Red or Ash is superior by using biased points in favour of the particular character. This simply would involve a lot of assumptions and wouldn't be fair.

You know what would be fair to judge them at their best in cannon and from what I seen from both I have no reason to believe that Origins Red can beat Ash.

 

[AJ97]

You where all ready reaching to make Origins Red look good.

Nope. I'm keeping my argument as Objective as possible. If I want to make Origins Red look Good, I could bring up a lot of points by making assumptions skewed towards this.

Facts don't lie. We could easily make assumptions and argue Ash or Red is better but until Ash officially beats an elite four-member or enters into the Master Class of the PWC, my argument stands.

The easiest way to discredit the Ash being better than Red argument would be by proving that, " All the trainers Ash has beaten so far are superior to Lorelei, Agatha, Bruno, Lance & Mewtwo".

This simply would be too biased of an argument to make in Ash's favour to argue he's better than Red.

Just remember that Origins is based off the games where you are destined to be the strongest trainer. If the Pokemon anime was a game and you were Ash, the game would've been set up in such a way that you ended up as the strongest trainer. If you wanted to battle and you were always going to be weaker than X trainers with no option to improve and beat them, it wouldn't be a fun game. This is the key reason why origins Red is stronger.

 

[SH65]

Just remember that Origins is based off the games where you are destined to be the strongest trainer.

This means nothing we're compareing Ash and Origins Red base on skill and their pokemon what does this have to do with anything.

 

[Shadao]

1) I don't even know why you mentioned Falkner as he isn't even in Origins. But even if he is, Origins clearly shows that gym leaders adjust their team based on their challenger. Ash was an experienced trainer with a full team when he challenged Falkner. Hence, he used Pidgeot in his battle. This is evident when you rematch Falkner in the HG/SS games. Otherwise, gym leaders adjust their teams based on the challenger. In the origins series, Brock asks Red how many badges he has and selectively picks his team. Falkner would not use a PIdgeot against a newbie trainer just starting off.

Then why did you persume that Origins Gym Leaders are stronger than their anime counterpart? If they adjust the levels based on the trainer's experience, then it makes the whole Gym Leaders must be stronger in Origins than the anime argument rather confusing.

2) Irrespective of Ash's age, Grand Festival / Pokemon Leagues are held every year. So if Ash actually attended these different events, it already disproves the fact that Ash has taken a lot more time than a year.

In different regions. Notice that Ash never re-enters in a regional Pokemon League again? He always goes to the next region's League? Plus, they still say he's 10 years old. Their word, not mine.

3) Ash is not a Pokemon Champion.... He won the Alola Regional League. If you call Ash a Champion with that win, then would James be the 8th strongest trainer and Gladion the second strongest trainer? Ash already achieved a similar feat back in the Orange Islands

He defeated Professor Kukui and the Tapu Koko in a six-on-six match, and the anime clearly states this was the very first Pokémon League in Alola and thus, Ash winning means he's the Pokémon Champion of Alola. Of course, I made it clear in the past in several previous posts I find Champions to be useless titles and completely leading the fandom astray since Ash Ketchum will never stop his adventures even after victory and will always seek out new trainers.

Oh and Bea is to highlight how just because you're the top fish in one pond doesn't mean you're the top fish in another, bigger pond. Red may be the Champion of the Kanto Region in Origins, but I don't considered it to be an impressive achievement compared to the like Leon in the anime, who a World Tournament Champion in a tournament where trainers from across the world compete.

You clearly seem prejudiced against Red lol. Assumptions are easy to make. Like I said earlier, if I wanted to argue Ash is stronger, I could simply skew the points in favour of Ash like you have done and I could do exactly the same for Red. There is no definitive way to conclude whether the Origin Universe or Anime Universe Trainers are superior.

At the end of the day, Red beat Elite four members and is a Regional Champion. This is simply something Ash hasn't done or come close to. You also need to realise that the Origins and Anime have vastly different Plot Points. In Origins at least, it is based off the games where the player always becomes the strongest trainer. The Player ALWAYS becomes the strongest trainer while completing every single Pokemon Game.
While this was supposed to be the case in the anime as well, in order to extend it, they simply have stalled Ash's growth.

So yes, he does not have the same feats Read has.

Heh! No, I merely find it amusing to deconstruct the whole legend of Red that fans have built up for years, hyperinflating his importance in what seems to be a desperate attempt to distance him and themselves away from Ash since Gen II. Overcompensating if you will. I like Red, just to be clear. But I like him when he's a relatable human kid, not some hyper-edgy badass Pokémon Master who is better than everyone else. That's no fun. It's also why I consider Satoshi to be my favorite incarnation of Red of the whole franchise. He acts like a true, hot-blooded kid that lives for the journey and the battles. It doesn't matter if he wins or loses. He just needs to make his opponents flinch and bring everything they got.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Given every major trainer knows who Red is in Pokemon Masters, he would utterly trounce Ash.

 

[SH65]

Given every major trainer knows who Red is in Pokemon Masters, he would utterly trounce Ash.

That has nothing to do with anything who cares if anyone knows him in Masters what does that have to do with their skill as trainers or their pokemon.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Given every major trainer knows who Red is in Pokemon Masters, he would utterly trounce Ash.

How is that even a valid argument lmao

 

[Deitylight]

So everyone mentions how anime Mewtwo is stronger than Origins Mewtwo while being also ignoring for years the fact that anime Mewtwo was trained by Giovanni. He didn't get that strong by himself so imagine what Origins Mewtwo would be like under Red if its Origins Red we are talking about. As for the question at hand, I have to give it to Red at this moment at time due to his vast selection of Pokemon that also contain legendary Pokemon and his Mega Charizard X. If its manga red, I don't know much about him, and if it game red, he would win due to being the players ability to have virtually any Pokemon in whatever he's a playable character in. Pokemon Masters Red is treated as one of the biggest champion in the entire game and hypes him up to be obscenely powerful to boot.

 

[SH65]

Origins Red

The only pokemon he has that mean anything are Mewtwo and MCX all his other pokemon have nothing to prove that they're even a threat to Ash's pokemon in anyway.

game red

Um... no he has a canon team he uses in any game he's a npc in you can't just give him any pokemon he wants.

Pokemon Masters Red

So? Thats hype and means nothing here.

So everyone mentions how anime Mewtwo is stronger than Origins Mewtwo while being also ignoring for years the fact that anime Mewtwo was trained by Giovanni.

And so? What does that matter? Because at the end of the day from what we seen anime Mewtwo is stronger than Origins Mewtwo in everyway.

so imagine what Origins Mewtwo would be like under Red if its Origins Red we are talking about.

Too bad we'll never see that.

 

[Deitylight]

The only pokemon he has that mean anything are Mewtwo and MCX all his other pokemon have nothing to prove that they're even a threat to Ash's pokemon in anyway.

While I'm all for strictly using feats to determine how strong a Pokemon is, ignoring the rest of his Pokemon because they decided to cram Origins in a 4 part series and focus on his starter and imply that Charizard does most of the work isn't a good assumption. He has 5 other Pokemon he became champion with right there.

Um... no he has a canon team he uses in any game he's a npc in you can't just give him any pokemon he wants.

You know exactly what I mean by that. The PC Red has many choices while his bonus boss counterpart has his usual team with a few changes here and there.

So? Thats hype and means nothing here.

Hype is all we have once it comes to a phone game like masters aside from character interactions.

And so? What does that matter? Because at the end of the day from what we seen anime Mewtwo is stronger than Origins Mewtwo in everyway.

Because context is lost on people and think Mewtwo was like that from the start.

Too bad we'll never see that.

Which is why debates that uses Origin's Red is mildly useless because its a four part series that was an advertisement for Mega Charizard X compared to the endless journey that Ash has who got a lot good feats now.

Comparing the games/Origins to the anime has always been finicky because not everything is 1:1. I think Ash will win at the end of the day though because he has an infinite journey ahead of him while Red is stuck as a bonus boss to be defeated by the new PCs who by the way have feats that easily outclasses Red and than some.

 

[Shadao]

Given every major trainer knows who Red is in Pokemon Masters, he would utterly trounce Ash.

Yeah, and every major trainer in the anime knows who Ash is in the anime. Therefore, Ash will totally trounce Red by your logic.

Of course, one pet peeve of mine in any Ash vs Red is treating two different versions of Red as the same character, which shows poor research and overcompensation for a character who really isn't all that special as people claim. Which is why I ask.... which Red?

if it game red, he would win due to being the players ability to have virtually any Pokemon in whatever he's a playable character in.

Unfortunately, that would severely limit Red to just the Kanto Pokémon whereas Ash can choose his Pokémon from across the generations. Sure, Ash doesn't have access to every Pokémon, but he does have a lot of Dark Type at his disposal which significantly nullifies much of the advantage that Psychic-Type Pokémon would bring.