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Could Tobias have beaten Cynthia?

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SinnohEevee

Well-Known Member
The last time we got a confirmation the Cynthia is still Sinnoh Champion was in BW, which was a long time ago. Could Tobias have beater her afterwards? Maybe he got a team of Legendaries by then and I can't see how she can win against that?

I have to say i would pay money to see Cynthia beating Tobias, especially if the latter has a team of Legendaries, but we know that will never happen unfortunately.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
We don't know what Cynthia's entire team consists of. And her Garchomp is the most powerful Pokemon we've seen, legendaries aren't that powerful. Ash's Charizard, Sceptile, and Pikachu have taken them down so I don't see why a freaking Champion should be excluded.
Garchomp could easily wreck Darkrai and Latios.
Who even knows what else Tobias has besides those two legendaries? He could just have regular Pokemon....

Cynthia would win regardless, especially if she has a Lucario like her game counterpart.
Tobias might stand a chance against Alder or Diantha, the two weaker Champions. But Cynthia would curb stomp his *** into next week, same with Lance.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
Unless his four other Pokemom were also legendaries/mythicals then I doubt it. At best he could at least take down at least two or three of her pokemon.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
This is what the “vs thread” is for. Anyways Cynthia being the champion in BW tells me that A) Tobias lost to Cynthia, B) Tobias lost to an E4 or C) Tobias lost in the “super” league that you need to win in order to get into the Champion’s League. My own take on the matter is that Tobias lost to Flint and here’s my reasoning. In DP 35 (Lucian’s debut episode) we witness a battle on tv between Lucian and some other trainer that is referred to as the “champion’s league finale” which Lucian wins. 5 Episodes later they show Lucian facing Cynthia for her title in what Brock refers to as “the greatest in all of Sinnoh”. Let’s alos recall Lucian’s statement that for the winners of regional leagues each region has a “super” league and the winner of this league gets the right to enter the champion’s of that region after which they must defeat each of the E4 in order to get a title shot against the champion of that region. What I’m getting is that Lucian most likely beat the winner of the previous “super” league in that battle which is why he was granted a title shot instead.

Now if we consider that your average “super” league competitor would be around the lvl of guys like Harrison, Tyson and Virgil then it’s very likely that Tobias was able to emerge the victor and enter the champion’s league. However, in the last episode we see Flint and not Tobias battling Cynthia in a title match meaning that Flint most likely beat Tobias (or whomever the champion’s league candidate was) and was given a title shot in his stead just like how Lucian was given a title shot for beating the champion’s league candidate in the previous iteration. Also of not is that in DP 100 Aaron gets a title shot as well and in the previous episode it’s stated that he had “risen above the E4” from which I infer that every mid season (with respect to consecutive champion’s leagues) the E4 either have a tournament amongst themselves or are ranked relative to eachother by some other metric in order to determine who gets the mid season title shot. This next part is my speculation but I believe the reason that there’s a mid season title match is easssntially to guarantee that one of the E4 gets at least 1 title shot each battle season since it may be possible that the E4 could loose to the champion’s league candidate every season (though in practice this doesn’t seem to be a usual occurrence).

This is the best conclusion I can make given the evidence in the anime. On a side note the anime has definitely established more than enough lore about what Ash would need to do after winning a regional league a.k.a he’d stil have a long way to go so this whole “the anime is over if Ash wins a league” excuse isn’t valid at all.
 

SinnohEevee

Well-Known Member
As I've said before, if the rest of his team was Latias, Entei, Lugia, and Barack Obama, then yes he'd probably have beaten Cynthia or at least taken her to the last Pokemon.

I didn't know Barack Obama is a Pokémon.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
I didn't know Barack Obama is a Pokémon.

Well Donald Trump is a Pokémon (also known as Trump Gumshoos which of course is Gumshoo’s synchro evolution) so it’s certainly a viable possibility lol.

Trump Gumshoos
- Barrier
- Uproar
- Outrage
- Trump Card
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
As I've said before, if the rest of his team was Latias, Entei, Lugia, and Barack Obama, then yes he'd probably have beaten Cynthia or at least taken her to the last Pokemon.

Nah, if his team had Donald Trump and Goofy he would destroy her.

Gen xd. Also Trump Card>>>>>>God-level( Omnipotent) attacks>>any Pokemon attacks.
 

I-am-the-peel

Justice Forever
Nah, if his team had Donald Trump and Goofy he would destroy her.

Gen xd. Also Trump Card>>>>>>God-level( Omnipotent) attacks>>any Pokemon attacks.

If his team had Donald Trump on it, he'd never engage in any battling and would insist that there were 'fine people' in Team Rocket.

In answering the OP, its hard to say if Tobias could beat Cynthia as we don't know what the rest of his team was. I don't think Tobias' Darkrai and Latios could've defeated Cynthia's entire team alone so, unless Tobias had a team full of legendary pokemon, I don't think he could've defeated her.

I think he could've defeated the Sinnoh Elite Four, but not Cynthia.
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
Tobias is a pure plot device with no real character, the writers put zero thought into what his other four Pokemon were. The league goes that if you win the tournament, you go on to face the Elite 4. If you beat the Elite 4, you go on to face the champion. Cynthia is still the Pokemon champion, meaning that Tobias either lost against the Elite 4 or her
 

starrisa

New Member
Personally, I think: No.
Firstly, as of unova, cynthia is still the Champion. Of course we can assume that tobias has yet to challenge cynthia, but then he may have already challenged her. So it's about 50/50 chance?
Second reason, remember how Ash won against Paul in the lily of the valley conference thingy? He barely won, and all of his previous matches with Paul were almost always Ash losing. Hence, I would say Paul and Ash are of almost equal competency. So, if we say Ash won against Tobias' two legendary pokemon (latios (or was it latias?) and darkrai), then it can sort of be assumed that Paul would have won against them too. Remember, cynthia easily won against Paul's 4 pokemon with just Garchomp. (especially his "strongest" pokemon (IMO) torterra). So, I would say: Cynthia's garchomp>Paul=Ash>Tobias' two legendaries. What if Tobias remaining pokemon are all magikarp? HAHA XD we don't know cynthia's remaining pokemon or Tobias', but I'll still say cynthia wins.
 

starrisa

New Member
Also, to add on to the point above ^^
Third reason, the pokemon series will show when a Champion has been replaced. For example, in xy, it is stated that Steven is the Champion of Hoenn, therefore taking the title from Wallace (TT)
 
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