Countering Legendary Pokemon (Crown Tundra Prep)

[Ophie]

The biggest problem with Imposter Ditto is that it is likely tied to a Choice Scarf, in which case it's purpose is limited to just revenge killing, which it does very well, but unless it came out in the late game it's probably going back after its killed something which makes it predictable thus opening you up for your opponent's counter play. However, for the purpose of taking out a legendary, I find that it works really well, especially as legendary users usually feel invincible and just use theirs as a beat stick.

Also do note that on Y-comm single battles are still 6 vs 6. That said there are still ways to implement some of those strategies even on 1 vs 1; personally I just used to use one Venomoth to set up Baton Pass (admittedly, the recipient is a Mega, but with Dynamax I think you can use achieve a similar result).

Choice Scarf is probably itself what limits Ditto, since with 3 Pokémon in single battles, the penalty for guessing wrong when switching is much higher than when there's 6. Consequently, their dependence on Choice Scarf is exactly why Dracovish and Galarian Darmanitan are not nearly as used in the online battles in Sword and Shield than in full team formats; neither of them make the top 10 most-used Pokémon in Ranked, with Dracozolt actually being more popular (due to Dynamax working really well with Hustle).

You're talking about Link Battles, I'm guessing, whereas I'm talking about Battle Spot/Victory Station. I haven't done much in terms of Link Battles, so I don't know if you can find random opponents on there, which is where the initial issue would lie, as you can't agree with random opponents ahead of time or know what they have planned. (My single battle teams are built with the pick-3 mechanic in mind.)

 

[Xaby]

Choice Scarf is probably itself what limits Ditto, since with 3 Pokémon in single battles, the penalty for guessing wrong when switching is much higher than when there's 6. Consequently, their dependence on Choice Scarf is exactly why Dracovish and Galarian Darmanitan are not nearly as used in the online battles in Sword and Shield than in full team formats; neither of them make the top 10 most-used Pokémon in Ranked, with Dracozolt actually being more popular (due to Dynamax working really well with Hustle).

You're talking about Link Battles, I'm guessing, whereas I'm talking about Battle Spot/Victory Station. I haven't done much in terms of Link Battles, so I don't know if you can find random opponents on there, which is where the initial issue would lie, as you can't agree with random opponents ahead of time or know what they have planned. (My single battle teams are built with the pick-3 mechanic in mind.)

Well I think the fact that the rules cannot be established in Link Battles is the reason people bring a team of legendaries into battles (the other reason IMO is to brag). The battle scene there is, well I wouldn't say healthy, but it is existent, and certainly much easier to start with compared to VS (though admittedly it wasn't as robust as in the 3DS days).

On the other hand if we're talking about tourneys and official matches, I admittedly haven't participated in Gen 8, so I must agree to your conclusions. But as I have looked into it, the legendaries allowed in the current tournaments are not necessarily in the Ubers categories, so while they are very powerful, they do have their checks and counters, and so are easier to dance around without the need for more advant-garde tactics.

 

[Ophie]

Well I think the fact that the rules cannot be established in Link Battles is the reason people bring a team of legendaries into battles (the other reason IMO is to brag). The battle scene there is, well I wouldn't say healthy, but it is existent, and certainly much easier to start with compared to VS (though admittedly it wasn't as robust as in the 3DS days).

On the other hand if we're talking about tourneys and official matches, I admittedly haven't participated in Gen 8, so I must agree to your conclusions. But as I have looked into it, the legendaries allowed in the current tournaments are not necessarily in the Ubers categories, so while they are very powerful, they do have their checks and counters, and so are easier to dance around without the need for more advant-garde tactics.

For the record, Victory Station/Battle Spot is divided into two modes: Ranked Battles and Casual Battles. In Ranked, Legendary Pokémon with a base stat total of 660 or higher (including those that begin below 660 but exceed that in a mid-battle form, like Zygarde) are banned except for Regigigas; all Mythical Pokémon are banned too. In Casual, all Pokémon are allowed regardless of species.

Both Ranked and Casual Battles otherwise follow the same set of rules:

1. During Team Preview, you see both your team and your opponent's team. You pick 3 Pokémon for single battles and 4 Pokémon for double battles.
2. Dynamax/Gigantamax is allowed.
3. When an opposing Pokémon faints, you do not get to switch to another Pokémon before they bring the next one out.
4. Pokémon cannot hold the same item as another Pokémon on your team.
5. Each Pokémon must be of a different species.
6. Nicknaming your Pokémon of a different Pokémon species is not allowed.
7. You have 60 seconds to decide the moves for each turn and 7 minutes total. Once 20 minutes have elapsed, including battle animations, the battle ends.
   1. If the match ends due to time-out, the winner is decided based on who has more Pokémon remaining; if there's a tie, it's decided on which side has the higher average HP remaining.
8. Matches that end with both Pokémon being knocked out at the same time are decided based on the last move or Ability to have caused damage.

There are always a lot of people in both Ranked and Casual, and Casual Battles appear to be the stomping grounds for people who just want to battle using their powerful Legendary Pokémon. That's why I was basing my thoughts on the Casual Battles rules. The fact that you can only have 3 Pokémon instead of 6 changes the viability of certain Pokémon. Pokémon that set weather, for instance, are quite important, since battles don't last for quite as many turns (an uncommon Japanese metagame strategy for double battles, for instance, is to use Accelgor or Electrode to manually set rain instead of having a Pokémon with Drizzle). By contrast, the penalty to be locked to one move due to a Choice item is much heavier due to switching being riskier and less commonly done (and consequently, entry hazards and Rapid Spin/Defog are rare).

Something important to note is that Smogon and Pokémon Showdown do not have a Japanese counterpart, so among Japanese players, who make up the lion's share of people playing online, full-team battles have not been a standard since Generation III. Consequently, Japanese strategies have diverged from western strategies, with ones very focused on the pick-3/pick-4 rules. For instance, if Legendary Pokémon are allowed, one type of double battling team build consists of 3 Legendary Pokémon and 3 support Pokémon (such as Indeedee, Comfey, Alcremie, Whimsicott, and where allowed, Audino and Alomomola). The Legendary Pokémon is chosen based on which one can fight the opposing team the best, then the 3 support Pokémon are chosen, designed to prop up the Legendary Pokémon enough to allow them to fight all four of the opponent's Pokémon. Understanding this strategy and how Team Preview works is important to countering it, as Team Preview allows you to identify the support Pokémon and gives you an idea of which of the three Legendary Pokémon will likely be chosen. I have never seen this team setup among non-Japanese players; it seems to have derived from having gone for over 10 years without ever playing full-team battles against other players.