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Create &/or Change Anything & Everything Competitive Edition!

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Wishing Star

Astral Charm Owner
New Item(s): _____ Band
Frost Band: Ice
Flare Band: Fire
Aqua Band: Water
Forest Band: Grass
Toxin Band: Poison
Mineral Band: Steel
Thought Band: Psychic
Assault Band: Dark
Justice Band: Fighting
Shock Band: Electric
Ominous Band: Ghost
Draco Band: Dragon
Hover Band: Flying
Crash Band: Normal
Mud Band: Ground
Block Band: Rock
Spirit Band: Fairy
Swarm Band: Bug

Text: Increases the chance of secondary effect happening. The move used must match the band type in order to receive the boost.

The chance of secondary effects happening increases by 100% on matched type. For example, a Heatran carrying Flare Band will have its chance of secondary effect increases when using Lava Plume, increasing the burn chance from 30% to 60%, but the chance to decrease special defense from Earth Power will NOT increase, as it would require a Mud Band instead. This does not stack with Serene Grace to prevent ragequits from a 120% flinch rate Iron Head from Jirachi.
Sure, good enough. It could get abusive with moves like Sacred Fire, but really, Ho-Oh could use a slight buff as it is.

And one more...

Magic Berry
"In a pinch, the next move will activate the secondary effect."

Let's say Alakazam is at 22% of its HP, the next move, let's say Psychic, will have a guaranteed chance to lower Special Defense. Simple enough?
Erm... yeah, Divine Retribution basically got it. If an Ice-type Pokémon or something purposely had defensive stats and IV's such that the vast majority of moves aimed at it would bring it down to the red zone, yeah.

Anyway, there were some moves posted by this one user in the X/Y threads, and I'd like to bring them up here as well:

Fairy Dust does 85 damage, while making the opponent either poisoned, paralyzed, asleep, or confused. PP is 15.

Metamorphosis does 0 damage but allows the Fairy type Pokemon to "evolve" into it's last evolution for the remaining battle but lowers the attack by 1 or 2 stages permanently. PP is 5.

Changeling does 0 damage but allows the Fairy type Pokemon to change the weather. It doesn't have to backfire if used correctly. You wouldn't use the move if a Psyduck had the weather ability or if your Fairy type Pokemon goes against weather-based teams. PP is 15.

Fairy Beam does 120 damage with an accuracy of 85 (changed it :D). IF the move misses than their is a chance of the foe either being put to sleep, or being frozen. (50 % chance of the foe taking on either of those status). PP is 10.

Magic Slayer does 70 damage while doubling the base power to 140 if the foe is either a Poison or Dragon type. PP is 10.

The moves are not insanely broken because there are moves in Pokemon that are more insane than this excluding the Metamorphosis move. All of these moves I have thought of have some insanely deep stories behind them.
My verdicts?

Fairy Dust - I think I've seen this idea here, but anyway, I'm assuming the chances to inflict each are equal and relatively low. They'd have to be less than 25% or so combined due to the versatility of the move.

Metamorphosis - It plain doesn't work. The user didn't consider split evolutions at all. If a Poliwhirl had this move somehow, and it used Metamorphosis, the game wouldn't know which one to "evolve" into. Also, that drawback just seems tacked on.

Changeling - Alright, but Fairy-type Pokémon can already change the weather... just use a weather-inducing move. There's literally no point in this move.

Fairy Beam - If anything, if the move misses, it should have an extra drawback rather than an extra benefit. Not only does the move have to calculate a miss check twice, but it's insanely broken since there's statistically at least a 7.5% of the Pokémon being frozen when the move is supposed to miss and do nothing.

Magic Slayer - Fairy is already good against Dragon, so there would be no need to make it do double damage against Dragon-type Pokémon.

And the justification that the moves aren't broken because there have been other moves as broken or more broken than this is just silly. It doesn't automatically mean they're not broken; it means that they're of the same power level as the moves that are "as broken" as it, thus making them broken. :/
 

Divine Retribution

See who you are, where from, what of
And the justification that the moves aren't broken because there have been other moves as broken or more broken than this is just silly. It doesn't automatically mean they're not broken; it means that they're of the same power level as the moves that are "as broken" as it, thus making them broken. :/
There's several other factors that contribute to a move or item's balance. For instance, imagine if Terrakion could use the Bone Club, or Breloom, or really any physical attacker? That would be pretty OP. But such a powerful item is limited to only Marowak, thus balancing its effect.
 

Wishing Star

Astral Charm Owner
There's several other factors that contribute to a move or item's balance. For instance, imagine if Terrakion could use the Bone Club, or Breloom, or really any physical attacker? That would be pretty OP. But such a powerful item is limited to only Marowak, thus balancing its effect.
If we're talking about signature items and moves for one or two Pokémon in an evolutionary line, that's fine, to make the Pokémon in that evolutionary line more unique and different.

The classic example is Shell Smash. Many people think that a net +4 boost in stats is insanely broken, and I agree. But just because it's been made doesn't mean that people should start making tons of moves at the same power level.

Anyway, what're your opinions on those moves that were posted?
 

Divine Retribution

See who you are, where from, what of
Fairy Dust should have a set chance (10%) of giving the opponent a random status. Automatic status moves are broken if they have perfect accuracy AND deal damage. I don't really understand Changeling... Why not just carry a weather move? Fairy Beam and Magic Slayer are just plain broken.

And Shell Smash would be pretty broken if you could put it on anything you want, but as it stands Cloyster and Omastar are pretty much the most threatening users.

SmashPass on the other hand... SmashPass to a Kyurem-B and your opponent can kiss his *** goodbye. There's pretty much nothing you can do about it.
 

Wishing Star

Astral Charm Owner
Fairy Dust should have a set chance (10%) of giving the opponent a random status. Automatic status moves are broken if they have perfect accuracy AND deal damage. I don't really understand Changeling... Why not just carry a weather move? Fairy Beam and Magic Slayer are just plain broken.
Changeling literally does nothing, as Fairy-type Pokémon are already able to change weather with weather-inducing moves, as you've already said. I think a 10% chance for Fairy Dust to give either paralysis, sleep, poison, or confusion is pretty good, as it's 2.5% per status ailment, which, given its versatility, is nothing to scoff at.

And Shell Smash would be pretty broken if you could put it on anything you want, but as it stands Cloyster and Omastar are pretty much the most threatening users.

SmashPass on the other hand... SmashPass to a Kyurem-B and your opponent can kiss his *** goodbye. There's pretty much nothing you can do about it.
Haze! Or... Unaware... neither of which are run much... :/

New Move: Shift Zone
Type: Steel / Power: -- / Accuracy: --% / PP: 10 / Target: Single non-user / Category: Status / Priority: -2
"The target's beneficial stat boosts are reversed. The more boosts the target has, the less accurate this move is."
- It flips the sign of all stat boosts from positive to negative. So if a Scizor used Swords Dance three times to achieve +6 Attack, and then the foe Magnezone used Shift Zone, Scizor would then get -6 Attack. It doesn't change negatives to positives, though.
- The accuracy of the move depends on how many boosts there are. It never misses if the target has one boost, but then at two boosts, the accuracy starts at 100% (which can miss, much like a Pound missing after the user has been Sand-Attacked), and decreases by 10% from then on for every boost afterward, with a minimum accuracy of 30%.

Is it too good? It's mainly for Shell Smash and Quiver Dance abusers.
 

Divine Retribution

See who you are, where from, what of
Changeling literally does nothing, as Fairy-type Pokémon are already able to change weather with weather-inducing moves, as you've already said. I think a 10% chance for Fairy Dust to give either paralysis, sleep, poison, or confusion is pretty good, as it's 2.5% per status ailment, which, given its versatility, is nothing to scoff at.



Haze! Or... Unaware... neither of which are run much... :/

New Move: Shift Zone
Type: Steel / Power: -- / Accuracy: --% / PP: 10 / Target: Single non-user / Category: Status / Priority: -2
"The target's beneficial stat boosts are reversed. The more boosts the target has, the less accurate this move is."
- It flips the sign of all stat boosts from positive to negative. So if a Scizor used Swords Dance three times to achieve +6 Attack, and then the foe Magnezone used Shift Zone, Scizor would then get -6 Attack. It doesn't change negatives to positives, though.
- The accuracy of the move depends on how many boosts there are. It never misses if the target has one boost, but then at two boosts, the accuracy starts at 100% (which can miss, much like a Pound missing after the user has been Sand-Attacked), and decreases by 10% from then on for every boost afterward, with a minimum accuracy of 30%.

Is it too good? It's mainly for Shell Smash and Quiver Dance abusers.
What's the distribution? As it stands most Shell Smashers / Quiver Dancers can KO Magnezone before it can even use this move.

Also, Kyurem-B can KO all Haze users before they can Haze him, and can O/2HKO all Unaware users with his stupid 170 base Attack.
 

Wishing Star

Astral Charm Owner
What's the distribution? As it stands most Shell Smashers / Quiver Dancers can KO Magnezone before it can even use this move.
That would depend on how broken it is. o:

For now, I think that the Magnemite line, the Bronzong line, Starmie, Sigilyph, and Jirachi would get it. The first two and Jirachi are obvious as to why. As for Starmie and Sigilyph, I feel their powers are unique enough that they're able to have the power to invert signs of stat boosts to make Pokémon extremely strong against them into Pokémon that they're extremely strong against.
 

Divine Retribution

See who you are, where from, what of
That would depend on how broken it is. o:

For now, I think that the Magnemite line, the Bronzong line, Starmie, Sigilyph, and Jirachi would get it. The first two and Jirachi are obvious as to why. As for Starmie and Sigilyph, I feel their powers are unique enough that they're able to have the power to invert signs of stat boosts to make Pokémon extremely strong against them into Pokémon that they're extremely strong against.
Eh, Jirachi... I dunno, a Jirachi with a phazing move would be really annoying, but then again not really broken.

Speaking of which, does anyone else feel Jirachi would have gotten Levitate as its DW ability, had GF decided to release Event Pokemon through the Dream World? I'm not sure which would be more annoying, Serene Grace Jirachi or a Jirachi that's now immune to Earthquake... Plus, as explicitly shown in the anime and in side games, Jirachi clearly has the ability to levitate...


Maybe there should be a Psychic-typed Magnet Rise clone.
 

Wishing Star

Astral Charm Owner
Eh, Jirachi... I dunno, a Jirachi with a phazing move would be really annoying, but then again not really broken.

Speaking of which, does anyone else feel Jirachi would have gotten Levitate as its DW ability, had GF decided to release Event Pokemon through the Dream World? I'm not sure which would be more annoying, Serene Grace Jirachi or a Jirachi that's now immune to Earthquake... Plus, as explicitly shown in the anime and in side games, Jirachi clearly has the ability to levitate...
I wouldn't mind my favorite Pokémon getting the ability to Levitate. It matches with how I think of Jirachi always being more of a special attacker based on its looks, and that a true Jirachi shouldn't be using physical moves like Iron Head. Perhaps if it did have Levitate, I'd be able to make an awesome Jirachi that didn't abuse Serene Grace. I know it sounds much less fun, but I think it'd be great.

Maybe there should be a Psychic-typed Magnet Rise clone.
They already have Telekinesis, which is pretty much Magnet Rise for an opponent for three turns. Naturally, the type should be able to grant a user of that type the same kind of thing. :)
 

Divine Retribution

See who you are, where from, what of
I wouldn't mind my favorite Pokémon getting the ability to Levitate. It matches with how I think of Jirachi always being more of a special attacker based on its looks, and that a true Jirachi shouldn't be using physical moves like Iron Head. Perhaps if it did have Levitate, I'd be able to make an awesome Jirachi that didn't abuse Serene Grace. I know it sounds much less fun, but I think it'd be great.
I always thought it was a bit amusing that some extraterrestrial being with the power to instantly grant wishes would resort to headbutting an opponent, but it's hard to argue with that 60% flinch chance...


They already have Telekinesis, which is pretty much Magnet Rise for an opponent for three turns. Naturally, the type should be able to grant a user of that type the same kind of thing. :)
Can you use Telekenisis on yourself? I don't think you can...
 

Wishing Star

Astral Charm Owner
I always thought it was a bit amusing that some extraterrestrial being with the power to instantly grant wishes would resort to headbutting an opponent, but it's hard to argue with that 60% flinch chance...
Yeah, that's why I hate having a Jirachi with Iron Head. Whenever I use one, I always make it have Flash Cannon and Psychic, because I envision a Jirachi using its awesome special-based powers rather than ramming itself and getting hurt on its head.

Can you use Telekenisis on yourself? I don't think you can...
No, you can't. If you could, and you did, that would be extremely bad. It would be pretty much a one-sided No Guard, where all accuracy and evasion modifiers are ignored for moves against you would be ignored.

But Telekinesis proves that Psychic-type Pokémon have the ability to suspend Pokémon in the air. So they should be able to levitate themselves. o:
 

jireh the provider

Video Game Designer
Yeah, that's why I hate having a Jirachi with Iron Head. Whenever I use one, I always make it have Flash Cannon and Psychic, because I envision a Jirachi using its awesome special-based powers rather than ramming itself and getting hurt on its head.
Should I feel bad now that I've let her headbutt her enemies a lot? Probably yes since I like Jirachi so much like you too. Heck, she's my favorite of all the legendary pokemon ever designed.

Anyways, I had a new ability that comes to mind.

Polar Ice:
Freezes the opponent when user is critically hit.
Detailed: Taking an idea from Anger Point, instead of increasing a stat to the max, I see this as a chance for applying Freeze as a status. Remember, Critical hits are random. And Ice types can't be frozen
 

Divine Retribution

See who you are, where from, what of
Chaotic Blast
Type: Psychic
Category: Special
Power: 180
Accuracy: 90
PP: 5/8
Flavour: The user fires a reality-warping beam at the opponent. It lowers the user's Defense and Special Defense stats by 1 stage.
Effect: Launches an extremely powerful Psychic-typed move that drops the users' defensive stats. It would be the signature move of a new Legendary I'm designing, and the only Pokemon who could use it would be said Legendary and Smeargle.

Natural Order
Type: Normal
Category: Other
Power: ---
Accuracy: --
PP: 10/16
Flavour: The user becomes encloaked in a mysterious veil of light. For the next 5 turns, its Defense and Special Defense are doubled, and it recovers 12.5% of its maximum HP per turn. However, its Attack and Sp. Attack are reduced by one stage.
Effect: ^
Would the the signature move of the other Legendary's counterpart, and thus accessible only to that Legendary and Smeargle. It cannot be Baton Passed to prevent abuse by Smeargle.


Also, some ordinary run-of-the-mill moves.

Brine Bomb
Type: Water
Category: Physical
Power: 85
Accuracy: 100
PP: 15/24
Flavour: The user launches a chunk of violently explosive sodium at the opponent. It may cause the target to flinch.
Effect: 30% chance to cause the opponent to flinch.

Wildfire
Type:Fire
Category: Other
Power: ---
Accuracy: ---
PP: 5/8
Flavour: The user sets fire to the battlefield, causing damage to all Pokemon except Fire and Rock types at the end of each turn for 5 turns.
Effect: For the next 5 turns, all Pokemon except Fire and Rock types lose 6.25% of their maximum HP at the end of the turn. Grass types lose 12.5% of their maximum HP, unless they have a secondary Rock or Fire typing (in which case they lose none). This is not a weather effect, and can therefore be in effect at the same time as other weather effects. Magic Guard and Flash Fire block this attack.

Vine Bloom
Type: Grass
Category: Physical
Power: 140
Accuracy: 90
PP: 5/8
Flavour: The user spews forth a tangle of thorny vines to attack the opponent. Sharply lowers the user's Attack.
Effect: A physical Draco Meteor clone that lowers Attack instead of Sp. Atk.
 

Wishing Star

Astral Charm Owner
Should I feel bad now that I've let her headbutt her enemies a lot? Probably yes since I like Jirachi so much like you too. Heck, she's my favorite of all the legendary pokemon ever designed.

Anyways, I had a new ability that comes to mind.

Polar Ice:
Freezes the opponent when user is critically hit.
Detailed: Taking an idea from Anger Point, instead of increasing a stat to the max, I see this as a chance for applying Freeze as a status. Remember, Critical hits are random. And Ice types can't be frozen
As much as critical hits can be punished, I think that freezing the Pokémon that dealt the critical hit is just too much of a punishment.
It should probably also only trigger with physical attacks so that it makes sense. Maybe that's just me?

Chaotic Blast
Type: Psychic
Category: Special
Power: 180
Accuracy: 90
PP: 5/8
Flavour: The user fires a reality-warping beam at the opponent. It lowers the user's Defense and Special Defense stats by 1 stage.
Effect: Launches an extremely powerful Psychic-typed move that drops the users' defensive stats. It would be the signature move of a new Legendary I'm designing, and the only Pokemon who could use it would be said Legendary and Smeargle.
Pretty good, I guess. The legendary Pokémon probably would have to have pretty lower Defense and Sp. Def base stats, as it's not really a drawback if the legendary Pokémon is relatively bulky even after the stat drops.

Natural Order
Type: Normal
Category: Other
Power: ---
Accuracy: --
PP: 10/16
Flavour: The user becomes encloaked in a mysterious veil of light. For the next 5 turns, its Defense and Special Defense are doubled, and it recovers 12.5% of its maximum HP per turn. However, its Attack and Sp. Attack are reduced by one stage.
Effect: ^
Would the the signature move of the other Legendary's counterpart, and thus accessible only to that Legendary and Smeargle. It cannot be Baton Passed to prevent abuse by Smeargle.
I'd rather have it just increase Defense and Sp. Def by two stages rather than plain doubling the stats. Potentially having +12 Defense and Sp. Def seems a bit ridiculous. But I have to say, in this offensive-oriented metagame, it's really nice to see a great defensive move.

Also, some ordinary run-of-the-mill moves.

Brine Bomb
Type: Water
Category: Physical
Power: 85
Accuracy: 100
PP: 15/24
Flavour: The user launches a chunk of violently explosive sodium at the opponent. It may cause the target to flinch.
Effect: 30% chance to cause the opponent to flinch.
Rock Slide is already a great move at 75/90 with a 30% flinch chance. This is strictly better in Singles, with 10 more power, 10 more accuracy, and 5 more PP, with the same flinch chance. I think it's a bit on the strong side, and could use the same power and PP as Rock Slide, at least.

Wildfire
Type:Fire
Category: Other
Power: ---
Accuracy: ---
PP: 5/8
Flavour: The user sets fire to the battlefield, causing damage to all Pokemon except Fire and Rock types at the end of each turn for 5 turns.
Effect: For the next 5 turns, all Pokemon except Fire and Rock types lose 6.25% of their maximum HP at the end of the turn. Grass types lose 12.5% of their maximum HP, unless they have a secondary Rock or Fire typing (in which case they lose none). This is not a weather effect, and can therefore be in effect at the same time as other weather effects. Magic Guard and Flash Fire block this attack.
I like this move a lot. Something tells me that there should be some way to cancel out the move.
Would Pokémon in the semi-invulnerable turns of Fly and Bounce be hit by this? Probably not, since they're high up in the air, and wildfires can't exactly reach that altitude.
Also, Bug-type Pokémon could receive double damage as well, with the extra damage stacking if the affected Pokémon is of both types. Poor Parasect...

Vine Bloom
Type: Grass
Category: Physical
Power: 140
Accuracy: 90
PP: 5/8
Flavour: The user spews forth a tangle of thorny vines to attack the opponent. Sharply lowers the user's Attack.
Effect: A physical Draco Meteor clone that lowers Attack instead of Sp. Atk.
Awesome. Breloom, maybe?
Or possibly Torterra. I never really liked Wood Hammer too much.
 

Divine Retribution

See who you are, where from, what of
Rock Slide is already a great move at 75/90 with a 30% flinch chance. This is strictly better in Singles, with 10 more power, 10 more accuracy, and 5 more PP, with the same flinch chance. I think it's a bit on the strong side, and could use the same power and PP as Rock Slide, at least.
Iron Head has a 30% Flinch chance alongside a base 80 power and a great distribution. I don't think it's that broken (if anything, Rock Slide needs a buff).

I like this move a lot. Something tells me that there should be some way to cancel out the move.
Would Pokémon in the semi-invulnerable turns of Fly and Bounce be hit by this? Probably not, since they're high up in the air, and wildfires can't exactly reach that altitude.
Also, Bug-type Pokémon could receive double damage as well, with the extra damage stacking if the affected Pokémon is of both types. Poor Parasect...
I was thinking maybe the move Surf could extinguish the battlefield. Surf's got a pretty good distribution and is already a competitively viable move. Yes, Pokemon using Fly, Bounce, Dig, Dive, and Shadow Force would be immune to the damage, as well as ones using Protect and Detect. At first I was going to make Bug-types recieve double damage, but I figured that would be pretty overpowered with Bug/Grass types losing 25% of their max HP per turn.
 

Wishing Star

Astral Charm Owner
Iron Head has a 30% Flinch chance alongside a base 80 power and a great distribution. I don't think it's that broken (if anything, Rock Slide needs a buff).
I could see it have 80 power, at the very most. Otherwise, flinching moves with 100% accuracy would be creeping up the power ladder 5 power at a time, and before long, flinching moves with 100% accuracy that aren't exclusive to one Pokémon would have 100 power or so, which would be totally out of hand, right?

I was thinking maybe the move Surf could extinguish the battlefield. Surf's got a pretty good distribution and is already a competitively viable move. Yes, Pokemon using Fly, Bounce, Dig, Dive, and Shadow Force would be immune to the damage, as well as ones using Protect and Detect. At first I was going to make Bug-types recieve double damage, but I figured that would be pretty overpowered with Bug/Grass types losing 25% of their max HP per turn.
Surf is just a great move. Luckily for it, it also makes sense that it can wipe out wildfires. So does Muddy Water, though, so it should be able to extinguish the flames as well.
Since the Wildfire does damage at the end of each turn, users of Protect and Detect wouldn't be able to guard against it, unfortunately.
I don't really see why the thought about the move being too strong against Bug/Grass Pokémon is something to really worry about. Fire-type moves can pretty much already burn them to a crisp in the first place, so why not make it do double damage to both Bug- and Grass-type Pokémon? Plus, there's not that many Bug/Grass Pokémon out there, so it wouldn't be too big of a concern.
 

NotQuiteSane42

Professional Cynic
I wonder about this...

Sense Blast
Pow --/Acc 85%/PP 5 (8)
Type: Psychic
Priority: -2
Desc: The user fires a psychic beam that unhealthily increases the foe's sensitivity, causing it to take extra damage for five turns.
Effect: When this attack hits, the enemy takes 20% more damage from all sources for five turns or until switching.
Reflected by Magic Coat and Magic Bounce
Stopped by Protect/Detect
 

Wishing Star

Astral Charm Owner
I wonder about this...

Sense Blast
Pow --/Acc 85%/PP 5 (8)
Type: Psychic
Priority: -2
Desc: The user fires a psychic beam that unhealthily increases the foe's sensitivity, causing it to take extra damage for five turns.
Effect: When this attack hits, the enemy takes 20% more damage from all sources for five turns or until switching.
Reflected by Magic Coat and Magic Bounce
Stopped by Protect/Detect
In this extremely offensive metagame, I'd have to say no. Fortunately, though, if X and Y bring a more defensive-oriented metagame, I could see this happening.

Telekinesis already makes the affected Pokémon ignored by accuracy and evasion modifiers, so I could see this move somewhat make the affected Pokémon ignored by Defense and Sp. Def modifiers in that the damage received by it is multiplied by a factor of x1.2.
 

Divine Retribution

See who you are, where from, what of
I wonder about this...

Sense Blast
Pow --/Acc 85%/PP 5 (8)
Type: Psychic
Priority: -2
Desc: The user fires a psychic beam that unhealthily increases the foe's sensitivity, causing it to take extra damage for five turns.
Effect: When this attack hits, the enemy takes 20% more damage from all sources for five turns or until switching.
Reflected by Magic Coat and Magic Bounce
Stopped by Protect/Detect
Meeh. Can we go with Sensory Blast? I'm a bit of a part-time grammar Nazi.

Anyways, the effect is... Interesting. It's a bit like a drop in Sp. Def, but it's hard to compare the two. For one, drops in Def/Sp. Def don't affect damage from status, weather, etc., while I assume this does.

The effect doesn't stack, does it? If it doesn't I guess it's okay.
 

NotQuiteSane42

Professional Cynic
In this extremely offensive metagame, I'd have to say no. Fortunately, though, if X and Y bring a more defensive-oriented metagame, I could see this happening.

Telekinesis already makes the affected Pokémon ignored by accuracy and evasion modifiers, so I could see this move somewhat make the affected Pokémon ignored by Defense and Sp. Def modifiers in that the damage received by it is multiplied by a factor of x1.2.
I see plenty of stall and defensive teams, and I think this would be useful there. Good for wallbreaking as well of course, but stall teams could use it to force switches and cause even more passive damage because it applies to all damage, not just direct attacks.
 
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