Criminal Intent: A Villainous Organization One-Shot Contest

[Negrek]

With regards to the anonymity/bias thing, I'd just like to add one thing that occurred to me, which is the issue of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. While a basic author name blanking is easy enough to do and something I'd be all for, I think not making it known who the contestants are would do more harm than good on balance. Yes, it'd be another layer of protection against individual judge bias, but it'd also frankly take a fair bit of the fun out of this for the contestants. Pre-results chit-chat and discussion is a normal part of the contest, but that's going to be tricky to do if the contestants aren't allowed to identify themselves. I'd also rather not put the additional burden on contestants to constantly have to be on guard about what they do and don't say regarding their entries. Sure, the contests should always be organized in a way that promotes fair judgment, but at the end of the day that only matters if the contest also remains as an event that people can enjoy and have fun with it and I feel getting that restrictive would be putting yourself on the wrong side of that line.

Nah, I didn't mean that we should restrict people from discussing their intent to enter or otherwise doing things that only contestants usually do (posting to ask about when results are going to be available, for example ). Rather, I think it would just be better for there to be no official word on who the final entrants were. Usually any contest has both entrants who announce their intent to enter/the fact that they got their entry in/etc. and people who enter without saying anything much or who don't make it clear whether they actually made the deadline or not, so if the person distributing entries doesn't state whom they've gotten a story from, the judges receiving the entries would know some of the people who entered, but not all. It just makes it harder to figure out whose 'fic is whose solely by process of elimination. In effect the only actual difference in the way things are run would be how the usual round-up post--i.e. "I've received entries from X, Y, and Z; if you sent and entry and don't see your name on the list, please contact me ASAP..."--was handled. Instead of posting the user's names, the coordinator could just give a brief description of each entry: "Okay, I've got one about Red's charizard, one about Youngster Joey, and one about zombie Team Rocket. If you don't see your entry on the list, let me know ASAP." I think it would work as well for figuring out whether all the entries had been collected and might provide a bit of fun discussion if people find any of the summaries intriguing.

It's worth noting that people often talk openly about the content of their entries in the thread, too, in ways that could identify them despite having their names removed from their entries. I also think that's fine; if someone is comfortable with the judges (and other contestants) knowing what they submitted and being able to recognize their entry, then they should feel free to discuss it as they like. But in this scenario people who would prefer their entry to remain anonymous would have that option available to them, too. Obviously this is completely pointless in a scenario where everyone who enters mentions stuff about their story in the thread so they're all identifiable anyway, but in previous contests there's usually been a good mix of people who enjoy chatting about what they're working on and people who prefer to play it closer to the chest such that I think anyone who wished to remain anonymous would pretty much be able to do so unless they had a very recognizable style/preferred subject matter. It's a pretty relaxed approach to secrecy, but I think that, as previously stated, the previous contests haven't had real bias issues, and this route would allow people to be more or less as secretive about their entries as they wanted to be.

 

[JX Valentine]

Not if it's meant to be anon though, which was presented from the beginning.

Beyond what Creepychu said, it's ... not actually fully anon, as the posters after me have mentioned. Besides the fact that the judges will know who you are thanks to the way submissions go, your name will also be attached to each entry in the results (as they had in past contests), so the people reading the results will know who wrote what anyway.

Actually, is that where the confusion is? Like, was the line of reasoning that because people would know who wrote what in the end, it was actually by public vote? Because if that's the case, then okay, I get where you thought that the judging panel wasn't a thing or that there would be judges and a public vote, and the fact that there might be that element of confusion might be a good thing to keep in mind. However, ultimately, yeah, it's always been a private judging process, with fics only getting revealed across the internets after the results are posted to Serebii. No one has ever gotten to read a contest fic before that point.

 

[Umbramatic]

(That and it also keeps drama over the differences between public opinion and the judges' opinions to a minimum. Imagine a super-popular entry only getting third place, for example.)

...

-looks at solvino knowingly-

But yeah, I'm a entrant, not a judge, so not really sure I have a right to weigh in there.

Regarding the bias topic though... There is one related problem I've been having with these contests since last year's, but A. I'm not sure it's actually a problem, B. If it is a problem, i'm not sure it's truly fixable, and C. I'm probably better off asking an experienced judge about it privately first.

 

[Dragonfree]

I've also toyed with the idea of anonymizing submissions. Primarily, the issue I've seen with the idea is the hassle of both having to involve the extra anonymizing step and trying to prevent contestants from revealing identifying details about their entries in the usual discussion around the contest - although if it were arranged as Negrek suggested, with anonymity not being enforced except to the degree that entrants choose to conceal the details of what they wrote, that pretty much gets rid of the second issue and the first one is comparatively minor. That said, that arrangement also removes a lot of the advantages of blind judging, since then it isn't actually fully blind; anyone who wanted to try to capitalize on being popular or friends with the judges, for instance, could still do so to exactly the same extent as before just by making it obvious which entry is theirs.

Then again, even if it were forbidden to discuss your entry in the thread, and we could enforce it well, that could still happen just through identifying choices of subject matter and style, so as bobandbill pointed out, the only way to truly ensure the judges have no idea who submitted what would be to get a panel of non-members to judge, and that's way more hassle than it's worth.

I'm all for trying the semi-anonymized format next contest, though; it is a little awkward judging your friends next to strangers (I mean, I think I've done a pretty decent job at being objective so far, since my rankings for my friends haven't actually turned out significantly different from the other judges in any of the previous contests I've judged, but I still always worry about it a bit), and although I feel like I might recognize their writing anyway, it might be less so if I don't actually know.

 

[Venia Silente]

*Takes time to get back to speed on thread, sees the new lines of discussion and sees himself be called by penname*

...Oooo-kay? Not sure what brought in these interesting topics of conversation, though I do feel like they are majorly "food for thought" for the contest organizers than for the Rest of Us™

In the subject of anonymizing contest submissions I can say, being both a former CS student and a current employee in matters of fiscal information security for my country, that attempts for full or near full anonymity are never worth it, whereas attempts for intentionally partial (but sufficient!) anonymity are usually worth it.

At the same time though, I feel trying to anonymize (too much of) these kinds of contests would kill a core component of what makes them fun. For example, much as I guess the people who are here enjoy writing, when it's done regularly and against deadlines and other external criteria, the writing stops being a hobby and starts being a chore, if a temporary one. Or sometimes even kind of a job, and I alreayd have one of those thank you very much. What helps retain the "fun" in the contests for me though is the social component - knowing who are interested, who are trying to make it in, talking about how far or close are we to making it and sharing our various attempts at stuff; finding out who did made it in and wishing each other good luck; the banter, the judges openly going through the "can I do [X]?"-es, or even, as has been my case, having been cross betareaders with other contestants and openly wishing each other luck. (All this of course to the degree that is permitted in the rules). (Also hi back, Umbramatic).

It's also true that some kinds of information in these contests flow naturally (eg.: who submitted what) and trying to go against that natural flow of information might actually induce worse biases than accepting it (for example, because judges might recognize the writing of a submission as belonging to a particular member; that would mean the judge already went, if perhaps unwillingly, through extra brain processing of the entry to verify its origin, giving it a deeper presence in the mind of the judge than the other entries' and for reasons not related to the content or contest value of the entry proper).

Still, if some things can be anonymized or otherwise streamlined to improve the organization, perhaps they are worth it.

...But, eh...

...I guess at this point I'm digressing. I originally came here for a completely different subject.

And that is, a thing I have been meaning to ask. We have gotten a rundown of what Evil Teams are being written about for this contest, but what I'm more interested in if people are willing to share it, is what level of their organization did people write about, and why. Is it the common grunt with their Zubat or regional equivalent? The faceless "admins" we had in the earlier generations or the more developed, named, individually sprited ones we had in more recent generations? The defector? The power broker? The suppliers? The betrayer? Or was it the boss? Or the real boss, tip top? In other words, who do people get ideas about when they think "Evil Team"?

For fairness of conversation and because I've gotten some requests about it I'll comment that my story is about the top level of the organization I wrote for, although the story itself is somewhat removed from the actual work and doings of such organization. The TA/TM idea I originally had that I had used for another contest followed a similar venue.

 

[ASCIInerd73]

Another thing that could be done is simply have whoever receives the fanfics change the names to Author 1, Author 2, and so on without looking at the fanfics themselves and then not looking again at which member was given which author number until after all the reviews and rankings aren't in. This way, it is mostly anonymous as two of three judges have no idea who is who (besides the aforementioned style and subject choice) and the third most likely wouldn't know most of them. If, after doing this a few times, there is a noticeable disparity between the judge who receives the submissions and the others, then we can do farther steps towards making it more anonymous, while if there is no disparity at all, we can go back to the current system.

Also, at above, I was mostly focusing on the grunt level of Team Plasma (and some, though not as much as I wanted, at the admin level) and also made an attempt to explain why villainous grunts always have one of a short list of pokemon in the games.

 

[Dragonfree]

Another thing that could be done is simply have whoever receives the fanfics change the names to Author 1, Author 2, and so on without looking at the fanfics themselves and then not looking again at which member was given which author number until after all the reviews and rankings aren't in. This way, it is mostly anonymous as two of three judges have no idea who is who (besides the aforementioned style and subject choice) and the third most likely wouldn't know most of them. If, after doing this a few times, there is a noticeable disparity between the judge who receives the submissions and the others, then we can do farther steps towards making it more anonymous, while if there is no disparity at all, we can go back to the current system.

Well, it's too late to make any kind of anonymizing effort for this contest (all the judges already have the entries with names attached), and if we're going to do the partial anonymity thing for the next one, it'd probably be done by having someone (probably a mod) who is not judging or entering be the one who receives all the entries and relabels them to be anonymous - that part isn't very hard to organize, so we might as well go all the way rather than have a judge handle it.

 

[Dramatic Melody]

Well, it's too late to make any kind of anonymizing effort for this contest (all the judges already have the entries with names attached), and if we're going to do the partial anonymity thing for the next one, it'd probably be done by having someone (probably a mod) who is not judging or entering be the one who receives all the entries and relabels them to be anonymous - that part isn't very hard to organize, so we might as well go all the way rather than have a judge handle it.

If this will be implemented in the next contest, this is the best way imo - having another person who's job in the contest is to accept submissions and anonymize them before being given to the judges (and perhaps because of this, cannot be a contestant. Although that's debatable and there are probably ways where it can be accommodated, it seems more professional if that other person isn't a part of the works they're anonymizing). And I think that's the farthest that the judges can do in terms of promoting anonymity. Everything else is up to the contestants (how much/little they discuss it on the thread, whether or not they reveal themselves as contestants in the first place, etc.).

And on that note...

And that is, a thing I have been meaning to ask. We have gotten a rundown of what Evil Teams are being written about for this contest, but what I'm more interested in if people are willing to share it, is what level of their organization did people write about, and why. Is it the common grunt with their Zubat or regional equivalent? The faceless "admins" we had in the earlier generations or the more developed, named, individually sprited ones we had in more recent generations? The defector? The power broker? The suppliers? The betrayer? Or was it the boss? Or the real boss, tip top? In other words, who do people get ideas about when they think "Evil Team"?

Focused on grunts mostly - my main characters are two grunts with one a bit higher in the organizational structure than the other. I say mostly because the story does involve the team's leader and admins, but their presence is largely indirect.

Also, at above, I was mostly focusing on the grunt level of Team Plasma (and some, though not as much as I wanted, at the admin level) and also made an attempt to explain why villainous grunts always have one of a short list of pokemon in the games.

I just have to say that this is such an interesting concept to explore and I can't wait to read it.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

And that is, a thing I have been meaning to ask. We have gotten a rundown of what Evil Teams are being written about for this contest, but what I'm more interested in if people are willing to share it, is what level of their organization did people write about, and why. Is it the common grunt with their Zubat or regional equivalent? The faceless "admins" we had in the earlier generations or the more developed, named, individually sprited ones we had in more recent generations? The defector? The power broker? The suppliers? The betrayer? Or was it the boss? Or the real boss, tip top? In other words, who do people get ideas about when they think "Evil Team"?

I wrote about all the named members of a team, from grunt to boss.

 

[Negrek]

And that is, a thing I have been meaning to ask. We have gotten a rundown of what Evil Teams are being written about for this contest, but what I'm more interested in if people are willing to share it, is what level of their organization did people write about, and why.

I wrote about one of the pokemon on the team because all the team-fic I've seen focuses on the human characters instead (or very rarely Meowth or one of the other canon Rocket-mon), and I've always been interested in considering why pokemon would want to join any trainer who was a part of a criminal organization (especially one that explicitly sets out to harm or oppress pokemon, like Rocket), or stay with one who decided to do so. It's something I get to explore a little in my own 'fic, but I thought I would take a different angle on it for my entry.

 

[AmericanPi]

And that is, a thing I have been meaning to ask. We have gotten a rundown of what Evil Teams are being written about for this contest, but what I'm more interested in if people are willing to share it, is what level of their organization did people write about, and why.

I wrote about an anime-verse Team Rocket character who is higher in rank than the grunts but lower in rank than the admins. She's kind of in the same rank as a Team Rocket scientist, though she isn't one. Without giving too much away, I chose to write about this original character because she specializes in something that the anime doesn't really cover, and I wanted to touch upon that in my world-building one-shot.

 

[Umbramatic]

And that is, a thing I have been meaning to ask. We have gotten a rundown of what Evil Teams are being written about for this contest, but what I'm more interested in if people are willing to share it, is what level of their organization did people write about, and why. Is it the common grunt with their Zubat or regional equivalent? The faceless "admins" we had in the earlier generations or the more developed, named, individually sprited ones we had in more recent generations? The defector? The power broker? The suppliers? The betrayer? Or was it the boss? Or the real boss, tip top? In other words, who do people get ideas about when they think "Evil Team"?

For fairness of conversation and because I've gotten some requests about it I'll comment that my story is about the top level of the organization I wrote for, although the story itself is somewhat removed from the actual work and doings of such organization. The TA/TM idea I originally had that I had used for another contest followed a similar venue.

You've already read at least part of my entry (remind me to get back to you on if you've finished) but for everyone else's sake my entry focuses very heavily on grunts and their mons, though one of the higher-ups plays a decently major role as well.

I wrote about one of the pokemon on the team because all the team-fic I've seen focuses on the human characters instead (or very rarely Meowth or one of the other canon Rocket-mon), and I've always been interested in considering why pokemon would want to join any trainer who was a part of a criminal organization (especially one that explicitly sets out to harm or oppress pokemon, like Rocket), or stay with one who decided to do so. It's something I get to explore a little in my own 'fic, but I thought I would take a different angle on it for my entry.

I wrote about an anime-verse Team Rocket character who is higher in rank than the grunts but lower in rank than the admins. She's kind of in the same rank as a Team Rocket scientist, though she isn't one. Without giving too much away, I chose to write about this original character because she specializes in something that the anime doesn't really cover, and I wanted to touch upon that in my world-building one-shot.

I gotta say for the both of you I really like your concepts and the rationale behind them, so I'm looking forward to learning more about them once the results go live, and once you revise/publish them do dearly shoot me a VM so I can at least read them (viability of reviewing soon after depends on state of black-hole review backlog).

 

[Venia Silente]

So as to not spend too much screen real estate in quote formatting:

"Also, at above, I was mostly focusing on the grunt level of Team Plasma (and some, though not as much as I wanted, at the admin level) and also made an attempt to explain why villainous grunts always have one of a short list of pokemon in the games." -- ASCIInerd73
"Focused on grunts mostly - my main characters are two grunts with one a bit higher in the organizational structure than the other. I say mostly because the story does involve the team's leader and admins, but their presence is largely indirect." -- Dramatic Melody
"I chose to write about this original character because she specializes in something that the anime doesn't really cover, and I wanted to touch upon that in my world-building one-shot." -- American--Pi
"my entry focuses very heavily on grunts and their mons, though one of the higher-ups plays a decently major role as well." -- Umbramatic

…It's interesting to see that many people are not only writing about the grunts and the lower members of the organizations, but are also writing about the organizations in a perspective that goes from the grunts up. This contest seems to be, in a way, about "we the people [who have to stick with the Zubat...]"

Thanks to you people for giving your input, really.

Also:

I wrote about all the named members of a team, from grunt to boss.

...Wow. I'm looking forwards to be amused and or impressed, definitively.

 

[Starlight Aurate]

Team Rocket: 4
Team Magma: 0
Team Aqua: 0
Team Galactic: 1
Team Plasma: 2
Team Flare: 1
Cipher: 1

Team Magma: 0
Team Aqua: 0

Team Magma: 0
Team Aqua: 0

D: Aww....

Granted, the fic I was thinking of and working on would have been a Team Rocket one as well, but I was hoping that someone would have given the Hoenn teams a bit of love.

I know this ended a whie aog, but still, congrats to all who made the deadline and entered! I can't wait to read your entries

…It's interesting to see that many people are not only writing about the grunts and the lower members of the organizations, but are also writing about the organizations in a perspective that goes from the grunts up. This contest seems to be, in a way, about "we the people [who have to stick with the Zubat...]"

Agreed. I was thinking there would be a lot more focus on higher-up members, since I always had the idea that they were the more popular. It is cool to see the grunts getting some love--that people are humanizing them instead of treating them as the mindless drones they sometimes appear in the media.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

...Wow. I'm looking forwards to be amused and or impressed, definitively.

I certainly hope to accomplish that. It's changing perspective too, so each part is told by them.

I also maaaaay have inadvertently invented a ship between one of them and the hero's parent. I'm not sure if everyone will read it the same way though.

 

[Umbramatic]

Hey, just checking in due to being exactly a month after entries were finalized; judges, I know you guys are likely far from being done, but how's the judging coming so far regardless?

 

[Dragonfree]

I was actually just about to PM to check up on progress, but I guess we might as well just post separately in here. Sike Saner completed her reviews and rankings today, but I'm nowhere close (working on the second review out of nine); I haven't really managed to properly sit down and just work on the reviews. I'm hoping to be able to do so this week or else next weekend. Don't know how bobandbill and Creepychu are doing.

 

[bobandbill]

I'm roughly halfway with reviews, bit more reading to do and then got to sort out placings (or finalise them). It's been a busier month than I anticipated. This weekend will be bad for me too (in a good way, just not going to have time for reading/writing =p), but after that it should get better. I will still aim to be done by the end of the month, but we'll see how close I get to that.

(Well done in finishing already, Sike!) O_O

 

[Creepychu]

I'm at 4/9 on reviews presently. Not as much progress as I would have liked, but I plan to hunker down and work through several of them today so we'll see how that goes. December deadline should still be plenty feasible.

Ranking-wise I still need to sort out the order of my top 4, but other than that I'm good.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

We're looking forward to it! Any overall thoughts so far? Not about specific fics of course but about themes or common threads.