"Dance on ashes of the world"

[SkyDriver]

Title quote: Rise Against - The Unraveling

Hello people,

Been a while since I were on this forum, but I will start rating new threads again :3 This is my new team, to make my pseudo-comeback, centered around my all-time favourite pokemon: Salamence. This team supports his sweep, and can kill all of its threats (but genesect, who will/needs to be banned soon). Please help me improve, as you have done multiple times before succesfully. I present you:
---edits are in Bold
edited edits are in italics---

Ignis (Salamence) (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

Ignis, my Salamence, is the star of this team. I took this moveset from a fellow P4L member, since mine, wel, sucked. Now this Salamence is an excellent set-up sweeper, with Dragon Dance to boost its speed and attack, with Dragon Claw as a reliable STAB that doesn't lock me in. Earthquake is self-explanatory, just killing most stuff resisting Dragon, and Fire Blast is to kill Scizor and Ferrothorn (and currently those pesky Genesect on PO). Naive is to not lower Fire Blast's power, while Lum Berry saves my sweep from a status induction once. I will not use Outrage for it being unnecessary powerful, locking me in, and confusing me afterwards.

Now, here are the new team members, that have replaced the previous 5:

Dusknoir (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Brick Break
- Ice Punch
- Shadow Sneak

Dusknoir is the replacement for Gliscor, to take hits and hit back hard. Earthquake is its main move, hitting the majority of the metagame for solid damage. Brick Break is for coverage and doing massive damage to Tyranitar. Ice Punch is for coverage against Flying and Dragon types, where Shadow Sneak kills off the weakened foes.Because of my issues with Conkeldurr, I may change to his pre-evo, but for now, Dusknoir does well enough.

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Heal Bell
- Softboiled
- Counter
- Toxic

Chansey is here to replace Ditto and take the special hits Latios and the like tend to fire at me. I couldn't come up with a good moveset, so I gave it Counter to kill any physical attacker that doesn't kill it. Due to Bold nature, max Def investment and Eviolite it should live any but a STAB Fighting type physical attack and retaliate with immense impact. Heal Bell is a support option, to cure the other team members from annoying stati. Softboiled is to stay healthy, where Toxic slowly wears the opponents down. Only Gengar can't be hit by Chansey, but I think every Chansey has that problem. I chose Chansey over Blissey for its ability to even destroy a Choice Band Haxorus, locked into Outrage. I could use some help on the moveset, as I'd rather use a Wish supporter, but there wasn't any space left for Protect, since Counter I'd like to keep.

Hitmontop (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Mach Punch
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Rapid Spin

Hitmontop, the new spinner of the team, also functions as a great revenge killer. Fake Out does about 30% to non-resisting opponents, after which Mach Punch usually takes care of the remaining Hp. Sucker Punch is to kill Latios after a Fake Out, also takes down Gengar and Espeon easily. Rapid Spin does do some damage actually, but its main use is known by all. Life Orb is for the power boost it needs to defeat aforementioned victims. Technician is to make it a revenge killer.

Metagross @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Pursuit
- Bullet Punch
- Hammer Arm

The new hazard setter is Metagross, which can easily setup the Rocks to aid Salamence's sweep. Pursuit is to catch Espeon and Latios that flee, expecting a Meteor Mash, and do massive damage. Hammer Arm is for Dark and Steel types, Bullet Punch is priority and STAB, beating the leftovers of a Pokemon previously hit by Hammer Arm. Metagross is also the switch-in for Dragon types, locked into Outrage, but unfortunately it can't kill them.

Rotom (Rotom-W) @ Light Clay
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Light Screen
- Reflect

Here is the new Dual Screener, that, with its useful resistances and espectable bulk, has a great time setting up its screens and laughing at them , whilst hitting hard with either of its STAB moves. The 4 Def EV's gives Genesect a boosted special attack, which may seem odd, but U-Turn is more dangerous for Rotom, unless it already has screens up.
​

Spoiler: Previous team members

Ditto @ Red Card
Trait: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Transform

Another borrowed set, Red Card Ditto simply phazes all set-up sweepers and sweeps the opponent itself. The max Hp is rather obvious, the rest is poured into SpD, as Smogon suggested, in case of a Zoroark. May change to scarf to actually sure-fire revenge kill, or just replace Ditto as whole.

Mamoswine (M) @ Light Clay
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake

Upon seeing a Mamoswine, one does not think: "Wow, it gets Dual Screens!" bet then I did. I like picking uncommon Dual Screeners, for easier set up, and the usually can take out a poke too. Mamoswine is great in this Screening, for it has great great bulk and it can revenge kill many many things with a STAB Ice Shard. Earthquake is for another STAB and awesome coverage. Dual Screens is what make this Mamoswine a Dual Screener, don't think I need to explain that. Thick Fat is chosen as another Ice resistance is always welcome, and now it can easily kill off heatran. Why did I pick Dual Screen Mamoswine? Because no one expects it. And after setting up screens, they don't expect such a powerful blow. Being unorthodox in your movesets really does pay off.

Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

Starmie, the spinner support for Ignis, does a great job at its spinning, as it outspeeds, like, all spinblockers, and kills the majority of them. Rapid Spin is the obvious move on a spinner. Hydro Pump is for a powerful STAB, but due to hax hating me, I may just need to use Surf instead. ThunderBolt and Ice Beam is for the BoltBeam coverage, to kill many set-up sweepers, but PsyShock maybe shoulb be used, to kill stuff like TentaCruel and blissey. Hidden Power [Fire] is not going to be on this set. Why not? Because Hidden Power breeding is a pain in the ***.

Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse

Heatran is mainy (only) here for the Stealth Rocks, but also its Steel typing comes on handy. Unfortunately, its Fire typing adds a 3rd Water weakness, which gives a 3/1 weakness to it (not counting Ignis in the synergy, as he just comes in an sweep). Its Fire Blast is nice for killing off Steel types. Earth Power is for defeating other Heatran. Dragon Pulse is to hit Dragons, whilst it maintains perfect speed. Air Ballon is to dodge the occasional Ground moves untill it breaks, also let's me flee from a Dugtrio.

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Swords Dance

Last but not least, another Fightinh resist, Gliscor. Since Sand Veil is regarded cheap by me, and Hyper Cutter isn't that necessary with Substitutes, I went with Toxic Orb + Poison Heal, which also gives me some reliable recovery and status absorber. Substitute is for safe setting up, and avoid a super effective hit once. Swords Dance boosts attck, readying powerful Eathquakes. Ice Fang is for that awesome coverage, only resisted by Levitaters. I chose not to use Protect, because I like offence, and stalling isn't my thing.

Thank you for reading, I hope you all enjoyed the team. Please do rate and comment, all advice is welcome. I am willing to replace any pokemon but Salamence, the only thing on him I may change is its item. Please do reason your suggestions, and keep in mind:
This team will need -A Spinner
-A Dual Screener
-A Hazard setter

Thank you in advance.

-SkyDriver

 

[SoulMuse]

Nice looking team you have.

I don't trust myself to give a full blown rate right now but I did notice on thing, your Gliscor set.

I can understand that you don't like defesive playstyles but looking at your team, and your Gliscor set, I would suggest changing your EV spread to: 252 HP, 76 Speed, and whatever is left in Attack, with an Impish nature. Swords Dance lets you boost your attack just fine, meaning you won't lose that many KOs. The extra boost to your defense to the point that Gliscor can take plenty of hits just fine, espeically beating Terrakion which a good chunk of your team doesn't like.

 

[Atrocious]

There's a reason why Espeon is so good at Dual Screening even though that's what it does 90% of the time, Magic Bounce. Basically if you swapped Espeon for Mamoswine, Starmie wouldn't be that needed here and you could swap Starmie for something that can poke some holes for a Salamence sweep. Since you deal with Steels well, Mag isn't needed so how about a wallbreakers that can take a boosted Dragon Claw since I'm getting the feeling you'd never use Outrage. Another DD user like Haxorus could work or Latios / ScarfLatios if you really want that Speed component you lost from swapping Starmie. It also allows you to nuke Gliscor that could give a boosted Mence some problems with its great physical bulk.

 

[725roy]

Trust me when I say this. Ditto wants a Choice Scarf. Why you ask? Because when Ditto transforms with Impostor, it gains the opponent's EVs and moves. If it has any moves that hurt itself (Like D-Nite with Outrage), then Ditto will outspeed it EVERY TIME. That and Get rid of the SDef EVs on Ditto there's pointless and unnecessary. Also, If you're going Dual Screens, just go Espeon, you already weak to Fighting with Heatran and it's Mach Punch that you should worry about.

 

[Blue Harvest]

OK looking team! A couple issues with the sets though.

First off Red Card Ditto is seriously the worst idea I have ever heard of. 50% of the time you go first and get a KO, but 50% the time the opponent goes first and wipes Ditto out. Ok yeah you make them switch but who cares. Just run Choice Scarf and kill them 100% of the time, provided they aren't scarfed too.

Dual Screen Mamoswine is also bad. If you are going to try that run max attack and speed with jolly. You NEED to get screens up before you take a hit or else you will struggle to do anything useful. Running Jolly with max speed can help towards that. While Dual Screen Mamo is cool for the surprise factor your team doesn't even need them. You have two setup sweepers, neither of which are particularly hard to stop even with screens. You could either rework the whole team to fit with dual screen Mamo or just drop Mamo for something else.

Consider just running Naughty on Salamence. There is very little you miss out on outrunning since 101 or higher base speed Scarfers almost always run a + speed nature and base 90-99 Pokemon aren't often scarfed with a +speed nature. Naughty Salamence outruns Timid Scarf Rotom so the only remotely common thing you MIGHT lose out on is Scarf Timid Hydreigon, but this basically is never used. Running Naughty gives you some BADLY needed KOs. Things that would survive like Thundurus, Starmie, Espeon, and Volcarona now are OHKOed letting you continue a moxie sweep without worrying about being checked as easily.



You are extremely weak to Choice Band Terrakion. It can simply Stone Edges its way through your team. With rocks up nothing, not even Gliscor, is guaranteed survival from two hits. You could make Gliscor more defensive since offensive SD Gliscor is a terrible set anyway. You can also drop Mamoswine for a Swords Dance Scizor. Though Scizor doesn't really switch in on Terrakion it gives it one less opportunity to get a free kill while giving you a powerful offensive sweeper.

 

[SkyDriver]

Thank you all for your comments, much appreciated ^-^

Nice looking team you have.

I don't trust myself to give a full blown rate right now but I did notice on thing, your Gliscor set.

I can understand that you don't like defesive playstyles but looking at your team, and your Gliscor set, I would suggest changing your EV spread to: 252 HP, 76 Speed, and whatever is left in Attack, with an Impish nature. Swords Dance lets you boost your attack just fine, meaning you won't lose that many KOs. The extra boost to your defense to the point that Gliscor can take plenty of hits just fine, espeically beating Terrakion which a good chunk of your team doesn't like.

I certainly will test this, as Terrakion can be a pain to stop.

There's a reason why Espeon is so good at Dual Screening even though that's what it does 90% of the time, Magic Bounce. Basically if you swapped Espeon for Mamoswine, Starmie wouldn't be that needed here and you could swap Starmie for something that can poke some holes for a Salamence sweep. Since you deal with Steels well, so how about a wallbreakers that can take a boosted Dragon Claw since I'm getting the feeling you'd never use Outrage. Another DD user like Haxorus could work or Latios / ScarfLatios if you really want that Speed component you lost from swapping Starmie. It also allows you to nuke Gliscor that could give a boosted Mence some problems with its great physical bulk.

I prefer to keep Starmie, as even with a Magic Bouncer hazards can get up (Espeon is 2HKO'ed from Ferro's Gyro Ball). >Mag isn't needed< Who do you mean here? And I don't really get what you're saying with the wallbreakers that can take a boosted Dragon Claw...

Trust me when I say this. Ditto wants a Choice Scarf. Why you ask? Because when Ditto transforms with Impostor, it gains the opponent's EVs and moves. If it has any moves that hurt itself (Like D-Nite with Outrage), then Ditto will outspeed it EVERY TIME. That and Get rid of the SDef EVs on Ditto there's pointless and unnecessary. Also, If you're going Dual Screens, just go Espeon, you already weak to Fighting with Heatran and it's Mach Punch that you should worry about.

Scarf seems ti be better after testing, so I'll change that. And even though the SpD EV's seem worthless, it can take a Zoroark's Dark Pulse once, and beside that, where should I put them otherwise?

OK looking team! A couple issues with the sets though.

First off Red Card Ditto is seriously the worst idea I have ever heard of. 50% of the time you go first and get a KO, but 50% the time the opponent goes first and wipes Ditto out. Ok yeah you make them switch but who cares. Just run Choice Scarf and kill them 100% of the time, provided they aren't scarfed too.

Dual Screen Mamoswine is also bad. If you are going to try that run max attack and speed with jolly. You NEED to get screens up before you take a hit or else you will struggle to do anything useful. Running Jolly with max speed can help towards that. While Dual Screen Mamo is cool for the surprise factor your team doesn't even need them. You have two setup sweepers, neither of which are particularly hard to stop even with screens. You could either rework the whole team to fit with dual screen Mamo or just drop Mamo for something else.

Consider just running Naughty on Salamence. There is very little you miss out on outrunning since 101 or higher base speed Scarfers almost always run a + speed nature and base 90-99 Pokemon aren't often scarfed with a +speed nature. Naughty Salamence outruns Timid Scarf Rotom so the only remotely common thing you MIGHT lose out on is Scarf Timid Hydreigon, but this basically is never used. Running Naughty gives you some BADLY needed KOs. Things that would survive like Thundurus, Starmie, Espeon, and Volcarona now are OHKOed letting you continue a moxie sweep without worrying about being checked as easily.



You are extremely weak to Choice Band Terrakion. It can simply Stone Edges its way through your team. With rocks up nothing, not even Gliscor, is guaranteed survival from two hits. You could make Gliscor more defensive since offensive SD Gliscor is a terrible set anyway. You can also drop Mamoswine for a Swords Dance Scizor. Though Scizor doesn't really switch in on Terrakion it gives it one less opportunity to get a free kill while giving you a powerful offensive sweeper.

Scarfed Ditto it is :3 And Mamo can set up one screen for free, cuz it does force switches. And the max Hp let it take even more hits behind its screens. It does work pretty well. I will test Naughty on Mence, but if it's outrun too often I'll change back.
I really don't want to use another set up poke, ad CB Scizor don't work for me. I will make Gliscor somewhat more defensive, hope that works. Should I give it roost > SD?

EDIT: Main weakness: rain

 

[Atrocious]

Meant walls. Lol. Stuff that can take a boosted Dragon Claw and return a OHKO i.e. Gliscor with Ice Fang, etc.

Mag = Magnazone.

Ferro 2HKOs through screens?

 

[725roy]

When I said to take out the SDef Evs, you're not going to be able to put it anywhere else because the transformation doesn't take your EVs over. HP Evs are the only thing that make a difference. Just saying that. Sorry I didn't clarify earlier.