Darkrai's Midsummer Night's Dream! (1163)

[Lord Starfish]

...Dude took on Dialga and Palkia

"didn't actually fight all that much"

That's like saying the Alolan League was on par with previous leagues in terms of battles

No, actually it is like saying that I have seen the Darkrai movie once and barely remember it.

Also the Alola League had no less than two of my favorite battles in the franchise.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

I'm preeeeeeeeeeeetty sure Darkrai got injured in its movie not because of TRio or the stuck-up Lickylicky prince.

 

[Almighty Zard]

Except that pattern has not been broken yet. It's not that he was not given the chance. He simply moved straightforward onto another region. That's the kind of trainer he is. Like when he refused to use his Pokemon at Oak's lab to defeat Sinnoh's rock-type gym leader.

Yes a pattern he was forced to be in until now because alola broke the restriction chains by letting him win a league.

Of course it doesn't prohibit them.
But why would Dawn go and participate in an official Sinnoh contest when she has not tried Kanto contests? Are you gonna tell me she just came back and felt like it despite having been following a pattern of Hoenn>Johto>Unova? That'd be out of character for her to return and officially participate in a contest of a region that she is already won 5 ribbons and entered the GF

If it's her own choice it's not out of character.

That is our of character for a trainer to do that. Back then and now when a trainer loses in a region then simply move into the next one. That is how it is always been with no exception. She did not try Kanto contests so the most logic is that she would have gone to Kanto.

You seem to forget Journey's likes to break patterns people think are set in stone, this is simply another one.

Wrong.
Remember Lila? Johanna's rival from her coordinator days? She quit being a coordinator for 20 years and then decided to give it a try and come back to being a coordinator. She had 4 ribbons from 20 years ago. It was stated in that episode had she won the ribbon from that contest she had completed 5 ribbons and she could have joined the Sinnoh GF.

until a person actually enters a GF their ribbons remain valid until they do so, once you enter a GF they become void at that point, so because she never entered a GF her ribbons remained valid despite her not being a coordinator for so long.

check bulbapedia if you don't believe me.

Why is it unfair? They are trying to get better every day. Most trainer are straightforward thinkers, come on.

maybe some are, but who's to say everyone is the exact same in that way, it's equally unfair to believe people must do things they may not want to do, just to fit your own personal mind set.

the simple fact is contests are not the same as gyms, Dawn can do what she pleases.

Yes EXCEPT that the Wallace Cup was a special case. It was stated that the ribbon of the Wallace cup could add one ribbon more to her Johto's and it could work to make her qualify for the Johto GF. Hadn't it been that the reason then May wouldn't have gone to Sinnoh because she had no reason to go there since she was competing in Johto.

she also got Glaceon so it's not like she went back to jouto completely emptied handed, otherwise she could've gone straight to the wallace cup when she arrived in sinnoh.

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

Why isn’t this thread doing numbers like Iris’ episode?

Because Dawn isn't a controversial character like Iris is and Goh apparently didn't do much? (Haven't watched the episode yet) lmao

 

[Twilight-Kun]

Why isn’t this thread doing numbers like Iris’ episode?

Because it was a whole lotta nothing for 22 minutes

Next episode's gonna go nuts once Ash and Dawn actually meet and people remember all that shipping chemistry they don't have but has totally been percolating since 2011 and will explode with the fury of a thousand suns

On the bright side, the way way Ash is now, he'll finally get along with Dawn perfectly compared to how he was a decade ago

 

[Kuzehiko]

Yes a pattern he was forced to be in until now because alola broke the restriction chains by letting him win a league.

How that does that change anything at all? Even if Ash is not doing gym quest that doesn't mean other trainers are doing gym quests. Gym leaders still keep their jobs.

If it's her own choice it's not out of character.

You're not getting it.
I said that on YOU assuming that she returned to Sinnoh to compete in official Sinnoh contest (despite having done them already.) Just because you said she wanted come back to her roots that IS out of character when the episode is telling you the she has been following a pattern of Hoenn>Johto>Unova and there are more region with contests for her to try.

You seem to forget Journey's likes to break patterns people think are set in stone, this is simply another one.

We're talking about contests though?
Journeys has not changed the contests pattern yet though? That's why you said it could**? Did Journeys introduce a WCS contests type? No, it still remains the same. This episode made it clear.

until a person actually enters a GF their ribbons remain valid until they do so, once you enter a GF they become void at that point, so because she never entered a GF her ribbons remained valid despite her not being a coordinator for so long.

check bulbapedia if you don't believe me.

Sure and mind to to tell me what episode was this stated? It wasn't in DP from what I recall. Bulbapedia is just another fan website. I'll trust what you show me solid evidence of.

maybe some are, but who's to say everyone is the exact same in that way, it's equally unfair to believe people must do things they may not want to do, just to fit your own personal mind set.

You are a newbie, start doing contests with your starter and not fully evolved Pokemon then a coordinator with fully evolved Pokemon decides to re-try contests in a region he/she already participated and lost. Do you consider that fair? I do not. That is why I think the show always has the trainers moving straight onto another regions and not coming back and if you are gonna tell me WCS changed this, (although WCS does not involve contest) and second WCS format involves battling trainers anywhere, anytime while gym guest and regional leagues still exist. It's different.

the simple fact is contests are not the same as gyms, Dawn can do what she pleases.

She can, as in character otherwise she would be out of character as I said and explained above.

she also got Glaceon so it's not like she went back to jouto completely emptied handed, otherwise she could've gone straight to the wallace cup when she arrived in sinnoh.

One time special edition.
Just happened once and was probably created as an excuse to bring back May back into the show. Even if she got a Glaceon doesn't change the fact that it's a special edition.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Why isn’t this thread doing numbers like Iris’ episode?

Dawn is as controversial as May and Misty were (none, really), and this episode was extremely tame that anyone could forget she was even in it.

Like every non-Mallow-focused episode, even.

 

[Blue Saturday]

Although getting some callbacks to Satoshi/Hikari’s relationship and would be swell am I the only one who cares more about what Hikari’s doing on an individualistic level? I just want to know how her team members are, how much progress she’s made in her goals, what feats she’s achieved and the like? The moments with Koharu weren’t bad either. But I guess your level of investment in them has to do with your overall stance and perception of Koharu.

Hell, even a special of Hikari doing stuff on her own would be fine as long as it’s of something of substance and gain to her. But do keep in mind the words about Koharu’s prominence increasing from the one interview so it’s obvs they want to use Hikari’s experience as a way to help Koharu integrate more into the Pokémon world. I already find her more interesting after this episode at least since we were offered more of her own character without it necessarily being tied to Eevee. She was also great with her little Nyarth crush and showing her more altruistic side.

Hikari showing her how to rough it with style via Bubblebeam was really cute.

I really don't like the current "boys' group and girls' group" we seem to be getting in this Tomiyasu era (flashbacks to that SM episode that had Ash, Kiawe and Sophocles doing stuff while the girls went shopping). Seems very... Backwards. I wish it would stop but I know better than that.

I kind of feel this is a cherry-pick. Girl have always had their own dynamics with each other in character returns if applicable?

Hikari/Nozomi/Haruka’s little trio with Hikari/Haruka obvs being priority, Sakura/Kasumi, Eureka/Serena with Serena usually not interacting other Citron, Hikari/Iris, it’s only the first episode and the whole point is them crossing paths with the boys as a surprise. It makes no sense for Gou to go alone and suddenly need Hikari’s intervention to survive and deal with the Sidon so Koharu feels like the easiest choice.

I don’t think they were “genderizing” group dynamics as Satoshi. I’m just not seeing any pattern with Tomiyasu’s treatment of character groups/duos that I hadn’t seen in the anime before? Especially since an equally gendered classroom and “girl time” feels normalized?

 

[Almighty Zard]

How that does that change anything at all? Even if Ash is not doing gym quest that doesn't mean other trainers are doing gym quests. Gym leaders still keep their jobs.

Yes, but Ash is not, if the pattern you speak of wasn't broken, then he would be the one doing badges with only newbie pokemon who have to be trained from scratch, but that's not what's going on now is it?

I said that on YOU assuming that she returned to Sinnoh to compete in official Sinnoh contest (despite having done them already.) Just because you said she wanted come back to her roots that IS out of character when the episode is telling you the she has been following a pattern of Hoenn>Johto>Unova and there are more region with contests for her to try.

Considering Contests don't exist outside of the four japan based regions , who's to say she hasn't already been through Kanto? where do you go from there if that's all there is?

Journeys has not changed the contests pattern yet though? That's why you said it could**? Did Journeys introduce a WCS contests type? No, it still remains the same. This episode made it clear.

I'm more referring to Dawn's choice to redo contests in sinnoh than how they are done in general.

Sure and mind to to tell me what episode was this stated? It wasn't in DP from what I recall. Bulbapedia is just another fan website. I'll trust what you show me solid evidence of.

it was made clear in that episode that had ilia won against Dawn (through her talking with Johanna and Brock bringing it up), she would've gotten her fifth ribbon to be in the GF after 20 years of not being a coodinator, so clearly the ribbons don't expire until you enter one, is that good enough proof for you?

You are a newbie, start doing contests with your starter and not fully evolved Pokemon then a coordinator with fully evolved Pokemon decides to re-try contests in a region he/she already participated and lost. Do you consider that fair? I do not.

That's how things are at times, do you think that contests have the right to check out how good someone is at registration, but not let them in because everyone else checks out as a rookie and this person has a ton of experience?

Experience alone doesn't win every fight anyway, be it normal combat or contests, if that was the case then there are alot of people Ash shouldn't have been able to beat.

and heck Iila beat Dawn's mother, but Dawn beat her, if experience was all that mattered, Dawn shouldn't have beat her.

Heck Dawn beat May who had been through two GF's, sure it was down to the wire, but she pulled that off.

That is why I think the show always has the trainers moving straight onto another regions and not coming back and if you are gonna tell me WCS changed this, (although WCS does not involve contest) and second WCS format involves battling trainers anywhere, anytime while gym guest and regional leagues still exist. It's different.

it's really hard to see the PWC as something one would even try to connect to gym battles or contests because you could be fighting anyone of any skill at any time.

Though I feel that only really applies to the first 2 tiers, now that Ash is in the ultra tier, I expect him to be fighting only skilled opponents.

She can, as in character otherwise she would be out of character as I said and explained above.

It's not out of character if it was her decision, and again what if she did go to Kanto? Where else can she go for contests?

i'm really getting tired of this, we're going back and forth to no avail over something we have no control over and cannot change, if you don't like it fine but complaining is only going to make you feel worse about the situation.

 

[Kungfu-Bear]

Glad to see Dawn again after such a long time like everyone else, I just wish that something else was happening in this episode and that all this attention to Koharu serves something relevant to the future of her character. What I didn't particularly like:
- Another episode and a plot in which adults are completely useless. A serious phenomenon affecting an entire region/location and there is only Ash and Goh on the entire planet to solve the problem. But okay, the show is for kids and we may have the short time problem and whatever.
- Piplup/Pochama's clumsy personality is there, but I missed his proud behavior. In fact I felt that Piplup was even a little unrecognizable I guess, he was somehow dazed because of it, I remember in DP he had the talent to steal attention at any time.
- Where's my Lopunny and Typhlosion?
All in all it's kind of refreshing to see a important Journeys EP that isn't rushed at least. I hope pacing is ok in part II.

 

[Soniman]

Well what can I say, after finally watching the episode it was great for me. I was smiling the whole time, theres small issues I had but overall I really enjoyed seeing Koharu on her own adventure and I REALLY enjoy when she and Dawn got together (obviously), their dynamic was just super good, a bit different from past pokegirl relationships which were moretly casual and frictionless if they werent mentor-y. I think her and Koharu make great foils for eachother since the latter is more level headed, practical and straightforward but also less well travelled and still doesnt quite "get" what it means to be a trainer on a journey yet so Dawn kinda shows her that! To me the best companion comebacks are when they show their growth while also helping and inspring members of the new cast in some way and so I hope Koharu learns more from the experience by the end of this two-parter, they're off to a great start so far!

Also gotta give props to the writers here, they nailed Dawn down perfectly its like they didnt miss a beat with her. Shes spunky, fun loving kind but also klutzy, a bit stubborn and can be immature sometimes and isnt afraid to butt heads with others but thats why I love her! She feels like a mutli facteded character still and im glad they kept that beacuse itss one of her charm (up) points.

The other stuff with Ash/Gou is mostly just set up for next week so not much to say there but man im so PUMPED for a proper "high touch" reunion next week. I only wished Dawn appeared sooner in the ep because im greedy but otherwise? 100/10

 

[Kungfu-Bear]

Hell to the no, keep Trollbias the hell away from pokemon, he's in the top four worst characters in the anime behind TR and Cameron. He was literally a troll character lol.

I believe Tobias can easily be "fixed" with a comeback, showing how he befriended a Darkrai and battle Latios with him or something, I think that's why so many people including me want to see him again (and also because we want to see Ash's revenge, of course...). Tobias is a mysterious character and already has legendary trainer status (or kinda getting there) doing justice to having two Legendary Pokémon, that's his advantage in comparison to a certain someone who is the real troll character on the show IMO. Of course, just as writers can save the character with his comeback, they can also turn things much worse.

 

[Ryker101]

That was pretty good. Chloe travelling on her own and bonding with Dawn were the best parts for me. Also liked that Ash referenced Darkrai and mentioned Cresselia as well, I love it whenever he gets to showcase his knowledge like this. My god, that nightmare sequence at the lab was hilarious. Bit cautious about the pacing for next week's episode, but all things considered this was a solid episode in itself.

 

[Ragnarok4]

Kantonian Mallow

LMAO

 

[Sham]

This anime is wild. They allowed Ash to remember him battling Tobias but he completely forgot he traveled to Hoenn when Serena brought it up. An entire region.

 

[Sham]

I’m not sure why but I find Dawn’s “it’s fine” more annoying than “No need to worry” maybe it’s because the writers insisted on having her say it 1000x times this episode.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

I believe Tobias can easily be "fixed" with a comeback, showing how he befriended a Darkrai and battle Latios with him or something, I think that's why so many people including me want to see him again (and also because we want to see Ash's revenge, of course...). Tobias is a mysterious character and already has legendary trainer status (or kinda getting there) doing justice to having two Legendary Pokémon, that's his advantage in comparison to a certain someone who is the real troll character on the show IMO. Of course, just as writers can save the character with his comeback, they can also turn things much worse.

Unless they bring him back and have Cynthia beat his ass 1 on 6, not interested lol.

 

[Blue Saturday]

I wonder if Darkrai’s bad dream given to Go/Satoshi could be seen as it “warning” then of Team Rocket’s approach. Thuis setting up a nice “misunderstanding” type climax/resolution.

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

Glad to see that Dawn is as sassy and clumsy as ever. Seems in character to me. I also like her character interactions with Koharu.

 

[Deleted member 384931]

Since when does Unova have contests?
I feel the episode wastes alot of time on Koharu getting there and such. And Team Rocket can do Matoris dirty work.