AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
The hell's the Tehno Region.
-
Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.
However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.
We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure. -
Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
Dawn's handling after DP
- Thread starter Hanto
- Start date
Mythical-Moonlight
I just ran, I ran all Night and Day ~
The Gen 9 region duh
Decidueye23
Well-Known Member
What...?
They've already done that, they called them Tripokalons.
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Apparently a made-up region where anime!Diantha found her Gardevoirite.
If that's the dub name of the Guipna Highland, that's... clearly not a region, as indicated by the name.
Morax
King of heroes
>implying he’s not
Bruh do you even fullmetal alchemist?
mehmeh1
Not thinking twice!
Tbh as someone who has seen both versions....I don’t get it
Sham
The Guardian of War
Thank you. It's like people haven't gotten a goodnight sleep yet after she was announced Champion. Like we haven't seen the girl in seven years prior to that. Any win or positive thing concerning Iris is automatically bad because it was her.
Last edited:
Morax
King of heroes
Decidueye23
Well-Known Member
Okay. People have to stop behaving as if the entire fanbase has it out for Iris.
The problem is not about her becoming a champion. The problem is the positioning of it. Had they made iris comeback during Masters 8 as a champion, by explaining how she climbed the ranks in unova it would be far more believable. Iris is the champion in BW2 and thats aruguably one of the most loved pokemon games. So its not like people have it out for iris as a character. Narratively it did not make sense for her to become a champion at the time she was shown, because the last time we saw her, she was no where as strong as she was shown to be now. Even now, its hard to believe she is a champion, when Ash's newly caught dracovish can one shot her dragonite. When we've seen how much of a tank Alder's boufflant was. So it is hard to imagine her being a champion when she is clearly not at the same level as the champions that were shown before her.
Picture this, Iris returns as a gym leader. Beats Ash in the WCS. Then they duke it out in the master class, where she could have retunred as a champion. That would ve been natural progression.
And if people havent noticed, thats the one main criticism when Ash is called champion also , which conveniently only two kids from alola remember while, cynthia is out there giving media interviews. Ash, atleast at this point, with his current team is no where as strong as a champion. His alola team would get WIPED out by any other champion (other than Anime version of Iris probably). One could argue that Ash could be champion level, with a team full of his aces, and that somewhat might be true.
Now, coming to comparisions between Iris and Dawn. They are the only "companions" as such who've made returns so its a natural thing to see which one people liked more. Personally i dont consider the alolan gang return as a companion return sinsce we just saw them in SM. and they returned within the first year itself, but even if you take that into consideration,
We get to see what lillie is upto. We get an idea of what the gang is upto in general ( although i hated the fact that they dd not continue wit Soph and the Mossdeep center). With Iris, whether i personally liked it or not, we got to see some growth, so infact when i brought iris up, i was infact complementing iris, and not attacking her. With Dawn, her personality seemed to regress, her goal doesnt seem clear.
And yeah there is no problem wit her helping chloe develop. Doesnt mean we cant see some dawn progression. I really cant understand for the love of god why people pretend like these things are mutually exclusive! They arent! These things are prefectly doable.But it almost seems intentional not to do these. Which is strange...
The problem is not about her becoming a champion. The problem is the positioning of it. Had they made iris comeback during Masters 8 as a champion, by explaining how she climbed the ranks in unova it would be far more believable. Iris is the champion in BW2 and thats aruguably one of the most loved pokemon games. So its not like people have it out for iris as a character. Narratively it did not make sense for her to become a champion at the time she was shown, because the last time we saw her, she was no where as strong as she was shown to be now. Even now, its hard to believe she is a champion, when Ash's newly caught dracovish can one shot her dragonite. When we've seen how much of a tank Alder's boufflant was. So it is hard to imagine her being a champion when she is clearly not at the same level as the champions that were shown before her.
Picture this, Iris returns as a gym leader. Beats Ash in the WCS. Then they duke it out in the master class, where she could have retunred as a champion. That would ve been natural progression.
And if people havent noticed, thats the one main criticism when Ash is called champion also , which conveniently only two kids from alola remember while, cynthia is out there giving media interviews. Ash, atleast at this point, with his current team is no where as strong as a champion. His alola team would get WIPED out by any other champion (other than Anime version of Iris probably). One could argue that Ash could be champion level, with a team full of his aces, and that somewhat might be true.
Now, coming to comparisions between Iris and Dawn. They are the only "companions" as such who've made returns so its a natural thing to see which one people liked more. Personally i dont consider the alolan gang return as a companion return sinsce we just saw them in SM. and they returned within the first year itself, but even if you take that into consideration,
We get to see what lillie is upto. We get an idea of what the gang is upto in general ( although i hated the fact that they dd not continue wit Soph and the Mossdeep center). With Iris, whether i personally liked it or not, we got to see some growth, so infact when i brought iris up, i was infact complementing iris, and not attacking her. With Dawn, her personality seemed to regress, her goal doesnt seem clear.
And yeah there is no problem wit her helping chloe develop. Doesnt mean we cant see some dawn progression. I really cant understand for the love of god why people pretend like these things are mutually exclusive! They arent! These things are prefectly doable.But it almost seems intentional not to do these. Which is strange...
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Iris rode a speed train to become a Champion within the same year...month...week...whichever, and before that we all saw she sucked battle-wise because her Dragonite actually listened to her. There was nearly no explanation in-universe about her upgrade, not a mention of the Elite Four or even Alder...nothing. It's weird, not going to lie there.
Meanwhile, Dawn has had a lot more time than Iris to improve and...not even Buneary evolved, and she's retrying Sinnoh contests for no other reason than to market the region to the audience. She got screwed.
Either we take the huge upgrade that has no real buildup or good explanation for it...or the lack of it.
Meanwhile, Dawn has had a lot more time than Iris to improve and...not even Buneary evolved, and she's retrying Sinnoh contests for no other reason than to market the region to the audience. She got screwed.
Either we take the huge upgrade that has no real buildup or good explanation for it...or the lack of it.
Last edited:
She was, though, that's part of the problem - they tell us she's "become Champion", hurriedly switch subjects before viewers start asking questions about how that could've happened, and then show us that she's more or less on the same level as she was last time we saw her, which is when she lost to Ibuki. We've seen how strong the the previous Isshu Champion was, we've seen one of the Isshu Elite Four fight, we've seen an Isshu Gym Leader who demanded Satoshi fight her with a massive handicap because a fair fight would be too easy and boring for her and STILL just barely lost... Iris was in no way shown to be on their level. And Satoshi, after beating her, went back to having a harder time with Gym Leaders than this Champion.
That's why this "Champion" status makes so little sense, why making her Champion was presumably some TPC demand the dialogue glossed over because it was pretty much impossible to rationalize, and why it's reasonably likely this was a detail added to the script after the battle had otherwise been written.
Sham
The Guardian of War
Doubt it that's the full reason. Being an Iris fan aside quite frankly I don't think making her Champion in this situation was narratively incorrect and the reason why I'm saying this is because there is never a clear indication on what Alder's strength is. He's only ever battled Trip seriously and everybody has beaten Trip like Cilan and Ash.
You could make an argument that Caitlin was portrayed as competent enough to take on Cynthia's Garchomp but just a few episode prior Axew somehow tanked a Draco Meteor and severely damaged it with Giga Impact. Garchomp was weird in BW. If they truly had to force Iris in that position then this was scenario to do it in. Additionally it made no sense to throw her in the Gym Leader role because she didn't want to do that.
The anime is clearly obsessed at this point with following the game's canon hence why Wallace was swapped for Steven when ORAS was announced, Lance was reduced to Elite Four because Let's Go is more recent than HGSS and as it stands BW2 are the most recent Unova games.
My guess is the original intent was to have her be the new Gym Leader. The episode is set at the gym, the last time we visited the gym Shaga specifically wanted her to take over as Gym Leader with her declining because she wanted to travel more first, becoming Gym Leader was specifically said to be a valuable step on the road to Dragon Master, and it's also the position she had in the video games that existed when her anime character was created. It was a very logical and established next step for her that would bring her closer to her stated goal and would also fit nicely into the general setting of PM2019, where Satoshi is currently taking on Gym Leaders and being portrayed as on that level. Having him randomly take on, and win against, a Champion who's not portrayed as any stronger than your average Gym Leader, before going back to battling Gym Leaders again makes zero narrative sense within the series itself and it's hard to believe that was actually planned.
Sham
The Guardian of War
Where was it stated she didn't want to be Gym leader because she didn't want to travel more? Was this a dub edit because in the episode she just showed hesitancy.
When was becoming a Gym leader specifically said to help her on her goal of becoming a Dragon Master? If becoming Champion itself isn't even a huge step there how would a Gym Leader manage?
Steven originally held the title of being Champion when the original RSE games were out and if memory serves me correctly they never announced him becoming Champion until XY so I don't think Iris' status at the time of her anime incarnation being created matters here.
Again how is a Gym Leader a natural progression when she doesn't even consider herself any closer to it as a Champion?
I'm not going to speak on her battle with Ash but I find it very interesting that Dracovish was able to take down Dragonite so quickly despite the latter tanking Mamowsine's Ice Fang and Georgia Bearitc's Blizzard.
It's not like Ash lost against any of those Gym Leaders anyways. His entire teams for the most part have blasted through trainers despite little to no on screen battling. Why is Iris the exception here?
Shaga and the matriarch revealed they wanted her to travel instead of studying at the academy because it was a more suitable way for her to get closer to being a Dragon Master, growing into someone worthy of taking over the Gym. This is the first time Iris learned they wanted her to become the new Gym Leader, and she said she wanted to think about it a bit more. Then she continued her travels.
What are you talking about? When they put Daigo in that AG episode, they knew he was the Champion in the game. They adapted an encounter from early in the game where the player character isn't aware of this, so there was no reason for them to bring that up in the episode. Whether or not they had any actual further plans for the character that involved his Champion status they scrapped when Emerald no longer had him in that position is obviously impossible to tell.
Likewise, when they included Iris in the BW anime, they knew she was one of the two possible Soryu Gym Leaders in the game, and obviously had some sort of plan for her that would acknowledge this. Whatever they had in mind obviously got changed SOMEWHAT (clearly Satoshi would've had to get his final badge from that gym if B2W2 hadn't introduced new gyms and new Gym Leaders), but considering all the focus in that two-parter about how Shaga and the matriarch want her to take over as Gym Leader as opposed to... ANYTHING related to her role B2W2, this is probably fairly close to the originally intended direction for the character, with all the Champion stuff from B2W2 getting tossed out and deemed incompatible with the anime character.
Come on man, if the PM2019 episode had been completely identical with the exception of those tiny few lines that acknowledge her being Champion being changed to lines about how she's the new Gym Leader (and her wearing her original outfit I guess), you wouldn't be sitting here going on about how little sense that makes and how she should've totally been said to be Champion instead.
HatersGonnaHate
You mad?
Haxorus, Dragonite, and Excadrill is more than enough power to get through the entire region. Even Emolga has shown to be very strong. The writers set her up for success when selecting her team.
Sham
The Guardian of War
When was it stated that the Elder and Drayden wanted her becoming Gym Leader to help advance as a Dragon Master. What part of the episode was this? And like I said she still didn't say no because she wanted to traveled so more. She simply declined to answer at that exact moment
And dude calm down I was like nine when that episode aired. I don't remember Steven being announced Champion at that time or at least directly stating that so I will have to rewatch the episode. And like I said he probably wasn't announced Champion at that point and time so I don't really are of the logistics of it being an open secret he was Champion at the time. And likewise I don't care about the implications of Iris possibly being the Gym Leader of Drayden's Gym and fighting Ash. We don't know this and will never know this so this is just speculation at this point. Your implication that somehow BW2 derailed her chances of becoming a Gym Leader is proof that they always intended for her to become Champion later down the line. If not why not just go with the original plot?
The reason why she couldn't become champion at that point is very obvious considering she'd have to leave the group for a significant portion of time and the series was halfway done. It made no sense to do it then and there.
Misty spent how many years not being the Gym Leader of Cerulean? And the only reason they did it was to write her off.
And like I said no I don't believe her becoming Champion was a last minute choice. I think it makes more sense than people are saying it does. I still have yet to see anybody tell me what feats Alder did in BW that warrants this high praise people were giving him when she was announced besides that basic implication that he's strong based on a battle he wasn't even in. All I can say is if she was never intended to one day become Champion in the games then the idea that BW2 "derailed" her original plan of becoming a Gym Leader makes zero to no sense because as you've stated her becoming Champion was random.
Last edited: