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Dawn's rivals: CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

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Gravy

Contaminated KFC
Judging by the feedback these characters have received over the past 2 or so years, I think it's fair to say that the majority of people share either an indifference or dislike towards them. Sometimes there's a justified reason, other times it's petty whingeing, but either way, snippets of constructive criticism tend to be few and far between.
I know you guys can complain, it's second nature. Even Jesus couldn't produce a wine to top this fandom's.

But working with what we've already been given, can you suggest any improvements? Taking into account their personalities, history, even their pokémon, is there a certain direction they could be taken in that would urge you to warm up to them, or at least make them more interesting? Do you think there’s a way to introduce a little conflict without deteriorating the established ‘friendly’ relationships they’ve formed with Dawn?

So go ahead and discuss, Lovecus, Super Rod even.
 

~Goth~

~Dark Trainer~
Dunno...I wish Dawn had like fierce rivals,mean guyz with decent pkmn...

Zoey is ok but I wanted her to be like a malevolent character,bitc*y & stuff

Kenny doesn't even appear anymore

Nando is dead somewhere...

Jessie is...Jessie

wow..really boring:p


^_________^
 

thunderblade12

Well-Known Member
Zoey - I think they where trying to go for a mentor/friend rival with Zoey and they succeeded if that was their goal. She needs to use something other than Glameow for a change

Kenny - Hes also a "friendly" rival, thats the problem with the DP contest rivals they are too smilar. Drew was a snob and Harley was an effeminant weirdo, it never got boring. Kenny also overuses Prinplup and doesn't give his other pokemon a chance to do anything, don't we get enough penguin with Dawn?(and probably Jun too)

Nando - We probably won't even see the guy until the GF, I can see him becoming the Robert/Solidad of DP. He is the only coordinator who is half interesting and actually uses more than 1 pokemon. Roselia, Kricketune and Sunflora all seemed to get equal screen time.

Jessie - Comical rival, she probably won't win any more ribbons so we can't consider her a true rival.


Also, is it just me or are the rivals really weak this time? May had some trouble taking down Drew and Harley but it seems like Dawn has already surpassed both of her rivals. Dawn did better than Zoey in the Wallace Cup and even managed to defeat May, who beat Zoey earlier. Dawn beat Kenny to earn her very first ribbon and Kenny even lost to Jessie.
 
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Gravy

Contaminated KFC
^
You're both missing the point of this thread entirely.
 

cbiesra

Pedophillia? Naww.>>
Originaly posted by ~Goth~
Kenny doesn't even appear anymore

Nando is dead somewhere...

Jessie is...Jessie
Got that right!

I kind of like Zoey's character, she interests me.
But I guess she could be a little tougher on Dawn and stop being as friendly as possible.
Dawn could gain some confidense(spelling?) and toughen up.
 

Gravy

Contaminated KFC
u said to suggest some improvements & I did...on Zoey
I said to suggest improvements based on their established character, not to bring up a bare bones post concerning what you wish they could have been. In other words, look at what they've already got and try to think of some positives based around that. I don't think my opening post could have made that any clearer.
 
I think Zoey and Kenny being in the same Contest together should hopefully show different angles of their characters we didn't see before.

When Drew and Harley met for the first time in the Hoenn GF, we saw a different side of Drew that we never saw previously. He suddenly got more protective of May and suspicious of Harley, which is much different than the way he was in the previous contests at that point.

I think the question is, do Zoey and Kenny get along? I seem to recall Kenny saying he met Zoey in his first appearance, didn't he? The only way to spark at least SOME tension in this arc is to have the rivals have some squabbles together.

Perhaps Zoey and Kenny can fight over their respective interest in Dawn and which could off her better advice?
 

Araleon

Chill
Hmm, well, I too think Dawn could benefit rom a Harley-esque rival, but wouldn't it be awesome if Jessie managed to take that position? If they give her 4 more ribbons...

I sorta like Zoey, but what ever happened to her dislike of people like Nando? Those who do Contests and Gyms?

Kenny. I like him, but his dub voice is more irritating than any other voice I've heard on the show! My brother joked and said they should switch Zoey's and Kenny's voices. He, and Zoey, both overuse their 'starter' and I think maybe Dawn picked it up from a combo of them and Ash.

Nando, I like him. I want him to appear again. I remember that fake title about Paul's Magmortar vs. Nando's Roserade...


Jessie. My favorite, and I want her to go the GF with Dawn. I wouldn't mind if she got to the Top 2 and lost... She sorta fills the Harley-esque rival roll. Minus the cheating.
 

TeddiUrsa

Well-Known Member
I don´t really think that there is anything wrong with Kengo besides his mediocre design ( I even that isn´t as bad as people say it is).

I like his Pokémon. Prinplup has a lot of possible interaction with pochama, even though Pochama gets more than enough screentime. Breloom is a fun pokemon that needs to be shown more with him and Alakazam...okay, not that great if you ask me, but not bad either.
Give him one new pokemon, let him show up more ( and his Pokémon of course), show his little crush on Hikari a little more often etc. In other words: no big changes at all.
Well, maybe he can act a little more cocky towards Hikari like he did in his debut. He isn´t a true mean rival, but he isn´t an all friendly rival either.


Nozomi,....mh...I don´t really know...I find nothing about her really interesting. I know people hate her for being bitchy but she really isn´t. Well, she isn´t at all if you ask me. She says something and Hikari does it. that´s all.
I liked how she popped up in Hikari´s daydreams to criticize her, so ...maybe she should show this part of her more often, rattling on Hikari´s self confidence.

Oh, and it would help if she would actually use her other Pokémon besides the damn cat.

But to be honest...I don´t know what to do with Nozomi and I bet the writers have the very same problem...
 

Sonic Boom

@JohanSSB4 Twitter
I sorta like Zoey, but what ever happened to her dislike of people like Nando? Those who do Contests and Gyms?

I believe she got over it by the time she first appeared in the Wallace Cup.

On-Topic: For Kenny, the first thing that needs to happen is for him to show up more often. With him absent from a contest for 40+ episodes, it's hard to establish something to work on. I guess Kenny and Dawn could think back to their childhood again, like what Gary and Ash did in Johto, and we can figure out what caused their rivalry in the first place. And I agree with everything with what Teddiursa said about Kenny.

Zoey, I really have nothing to offer. She hasn't done anything that need to be improved on.
 

Dax

R.I.P Dax
I think they can improve with a better backstory. If you don't have the personality then at least create something that can make up for it.

I don't know if in case of Zoey her problem with gyms/contests was completely solved. If it is then too bad but if it still isn't I think an episode to explain her reasons and why she feels the way she does about them can help in the understanding of her character. I don't think they gave any valid reasons towards her issues and it will be nice to know more of it instead of the superficial side of her story.

Nando, I don't know if he's a rival but if he is then more screentime will do. Simple, he doesn't appear and I thought he was relevant.

In terms of Kenny I don't have a problem with him. I think he's a great character, with a great team and a great personality. I don't know what they can do to improve him honestly because I think he's great but then again, maybe they can just give him some different clothes or something because his design is just BLAND!:p
 

Jun.In.A.Rush

Xmas mood!
I seriously thought that the rivals need to show some more... focus.
I mean, they all seem to act as some kinda backdrop for Dawn to shine on, unlike May's rivals, who were actually showing some gumption to win. This creates some kind of true rivalry, unlike Dawn's rivals who seem to be in here for the fun of it/fun of teasing Dawn/fun of just being random.

However, we still know of the Trump Card of the season: Jun. Will he be Ash's rival? Or Dawn's? We'll have to see.
 

poshamma

Well-Known Member
I seriously thought that the rivals need to show some more... focus.
I mean, they all seem to act as some kinda backdrop for Dawn to shine on, unlike May's rivals, who were actually showing some gumption to win. This creates some kind of true rivalry, unlike Dawn's rivals who seem to be in here for the fun of it/fun of teasing Dawn/fun of just being random.

However, we still know of the Trump Card of the season: Jun. Will he be Ash's rival? Or Dawn's? We'll have to see.

Jun is Ash's rival. The summary mentions that he wants to be the strongest trainer.
 

S.Suikun

Thank you, SPPf! :)
Asking for constructive criticism from Serebii is like asking a homeless man for spare change.

Let's get Nando out of the way first - I don't even consider Nando to be a rival to anybody.

There. Problem solved.

Kenny...look, I have nothing against Kenny other than the fact that whenever I see him, I think about how Random Baseball Cap Dude was drawn with more inspiration. While he has traces of Drew and Gary in forms of his cocky behavior towards Dawn, giving him some history with Dawn actually makes him a fair bit more interesting. And his appearances are scarcer than Zoey, keeping him somewhat fresh.

Zoey, being Dawn's main lover rival, is the one who has needed an overhaul. I'm actually glad they ditched her hatred of multitaskers, because really, it wasn't going anywhere interesting. But her main problem is not that she's too "friendly", nor because she's nosy, but that she's so incredibly shallow as a character. She has no story, she has no style, and she has no remarkable traits that set her apart from other characters. But even though her personality or lack thereof has already been established, they still have time to give her some background. Now, revealing that she's from Snowpoint actually opens up an opportunity to explore her and do something interesting by the time the anime reaches that point, should that tidbit not be forgotten. But really, the less time the anime spends on her, the more time some more minor coordinators that have some redeeming features to them (Yuri was a good example) have.
 

EagleEyes

New Member
I think they need to Introduce a new character to contests which will stir up some tension. I.e. Stating Dawn and Zoey should trade pokemon leadin to a arguement (Aren't my pokemon good enough for you) which will last until the grand festival. Then they will live happily ever after!
 

TeddiUrsa

Well-Known Member
She has no story, she has no style, and she has no ...

She has no grace? At least she has a funny face...

I really think that there will be more backstory for Kengo, especially since he is linked with Hikari, so it is easy to write something interesting and funny for him.

But backstories really make characters more interesting and Nozomi is just a random girl from an icy town. When you think about it..there isn´t really anything special about her.
Shou was rather popular and even had his own merchandise and fanclubs as well as a cocky attitude to go with it ( although the fanclub part could have played a larger role) and I don´t need to say why Harley was so great.

I´d rather see more one shots, like Suikun said than seeing Nozomi over and over again. Maybe I´m just uncreative but I really don´t see how you can "pimp" Nozomi in any way. :/
 
Here's another big improvement for Zoey: Show LESS of Zoey.

I think just about everyone has noticed the imbalance in Dawn's rivals appearances. Can you believe Kenny has only been in two back to back episodes, and this is out of 103 confirmed DP eps so far?

Meanwhile we see Zoey almost every 10-15 episodes now, even in fillers or just in Dawn's memories. If they actually showed Kenny more, and fleshed out his character a bit, instead of putting Zoey in so many eps, I think people would be less annoyed.

Personally the writers are doing the same thing with Zoey as they did with Piplup, overexposing a character only creates negative reaction toward them, not positive ones. Remember back when DP first started everyone loved Piplup? Its actually shocking to go back and read old threads from 2006 when everyone talked about how great Piplup was and how it was more interesting than May's Torchic, and now everyone is sick of it.

I don't mind Dawn's overexposure of screentime, since she is intended to be a co-star and is being treated better than May, but the characters involved in her arc need to appear less so the imbalance isn't so bothersome.
 
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Sonic Boom

@JohanSSB4 Twitter
I think just about everyone has noticed the imbalance in Dawn's rivals appearances. Can you believe Kenny has only been in two back to back episodes, and this is out of 103 confirmed DP eps so far?

He's been in two sets of back-to-back episodes, plus two Wallace Cup cameos, and another random cameo where he got his second ribbon, but I do see your point.

I don't know what to think about Zoey popping up all over the place. Is this going anywhere at all, or have the writers written themselves into a rut that they have no choice but to keep going? Hopefully it's the former, and we get a interesting arc in the Sinnoh Grand Festival that will culminate all of Zoey's appearances along with the rivalry that they both have. Perhaps idolization of Johanna from Zoey? Something else?
 

Mythic Mist

Indecent Exposure
Kenny's fine the way he is.

Zoey...they really can't do more on her really.

What I think needs to happen is that a THIRD rival character needs to be thrown into the mix to stir something up between the relationships of either DAwn and Kenny, or Dawn and Zoey.

For example, for the Dawn and Kenny Rivalry, they could play on Kenny's crush on Dawn by having a third rival show up and have Dawn show interest in him, creating jealousy? Cheesy romantic drama, I know, but it's something. Either that or they could just keep revealing more backstory between him and Dawn. Like the whole Pikari/Dee Dee thing.

For Zoey, There could be a third Rival character that absolutely adores Dawn, but despises Zoey, to the point where the Zoey-Dawn relationship is just completely torn apart. This will give us some drama or Angst between them.

I dunno, I just feel that in order for ANY of the characters to improve, a third rival must appear. More so for Zoey than for kenny.
 
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