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Dec 8th: SM6 - Zing Zap Togedemaru!

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Janovy

Banned
Because A) It was paired with the sketches of the other starters who did not reference Ash or any other character
I fail to see how this is relevant. The exclusion of sketches on other starters doesn't negate the already existing sketch.

Also why would there be a reference of Ash (or any other character) on other starters if Ash clearly isn't getting Decidueye or Primarina yet? Or if neither of those fully evolve forms is appearing in the anime soon?

B) At the time those sketches came out, Mallow wasn't even introduced for the game, hence you logically cannot assume there was an anime being planned for a game not even close to being released
You're joking right? Pokemon Anime episodes are made 6 months in advance and the games are developed even earlier than the anime. So yes, I can logically assume BOTH anime and the games were being planned.

C)The reason to believe these a GF sheets and not anime sheets are because they official artwork for these guys are literally taken from them
Again, just because it is from Game Freak does not mean they could not have taken a sketch from an anime scene as a reference especially if Incineroar was already planned to have its anime appearance.

D) The focus is still the starters unlike most anime reference sheets which put just as much focus on the characters and Pokemon
I'm not saying this is an anime reference sheet. This is a concept art for Incineroar with a sketch from an anime scene. Otherwise how do you explain Mallow, Ash, Pikachu...?

E) Why is Ash's design different in that sheet compared to his design for Sun and Moon?
What design? There are hardly any details on Ash in the sketch. He has a hat, clothes and a Pikachu on him.
 
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PAndrews

Well-Known Member
Umm, the sketch was almost definitely a scene taken from the anime.

It doesn't happen in the games, so why would they draw a random scene with Ash and Mallow?

Thats not how illustrating works though. This is a sketch which appears to be a concept design for Incinerator and not an actual anime scene. If this was meant for the anime, it would be a storyboard, not multiple images jumbled together on one-sheet.

Its clearly just rough sketches and designs. It includes deciding if he breaths fire or fires it from his belt, facial expressions, front and back design, wrestling moves, attacking Pikachu with a table (WWF style joke) and a joke scene of Ash and Mallow using his belt to boil water.
Its a sketch, not a storyboard so its not a scene. That makes it a clear sketchsheet of Incinerator and nothing more.

If you are going to argue this is a scene, then you are also saying Incinerator is going to slam a table on Pikachu (with a microphone flying away) at a wrestling match full WWF style.
 

Janovy

Banned
Thats not how illustrating works though. This is a sketch which appears to be a concept design for Incinerator and not an actual anime scene. If this was meant for the anime, it would be a storyboard, not multiple images jumbled together on one-sheet.

Its clearly just rough sketches and designs. It includes deciding if he breaths fire or fires it from his belt, facial expressions, front and back design, wrestling moves, attacking Pikachu with a table (WWF style joke) and a joke scene of Ash and Mallow using his belt to boil water.
Its a sketch, not a storyboard so its not a scene. That makes it a clear sketchsheet of Incinerator and nothing more.
None of it explains the presence of Ash, Pikachu and Mallow.

I wouldn't be arguing any of this if anime characters weren't in the sketch. Why are Ash and Pikachu there? Just for the lulz? The games don't feature them, so what exactly is the point of the sketch if it wasn't taken from somewhere else? If it was just random, why not use any other game character? Why exactly Ash?

If you are going to argue this is a scene, then you are also saying Incinerator is going to slam a table on Pikachu (with a microphone flying away) at a wrestling match full WWF style.
Yes, and? The anime has gone full-on wacky style and Incineroar is that type of Pokemon, so why wouldn't they show a table being slammed on Pikachu?
 

PAndrews

Well-Known Member
None of it explains the presence of Ash, Pikachu and Mallow.

I wouldn't be arguing any of this if anime characters weren't in the sketch.

Again, its a sketch, NOT a storyboard. Them being in the scene makes no difference on this fact since its just an added joke on a ROUGH DESIGN SHEET. Literally NOTHING suggests this is an actual anime scene and not just doodles from a designer
For it to be an anime-scene it would need to be a storyboard image. Ash is also a mere sketch without his current outfit design (basically no design) and both starters (despite Popplio not being his and its trainer being absent).

Granted they might someday decide to add such a scene, but thats not what this is, its just a sketch, nothing more at this point.


Yes, and? The anime has gone full-on wacky style and Incineroar is that type of Pokemon, so why wouldn't they show a table being slammed on Pikachu?

The table is a clear reference to WWF (he is even shown using wrestling moves on some humanoid around it), it even has the mic flying away while Incinerator picks in up, not to mention the bottom left corner has him standing on said table, broken in half.
So you are suggesting he is going to actually slam that on top of Pikachu, breaking it with the used force and then standing on top of the result (with a potentially squashed Pikachu underneath it). Seems a bit brutal for a kids show don't you think?
 

Janovy

Banned
Again, its a sketch, NOT a storyboard. Them being in the scene makes no difference on this fact since its just an added joke on a ROUGH DESIGN SHEET. Literally NOTHING suggests this is an actual anime scene and not just doodles from a designer
For it to be an anime-scene it would need to be a storyboard image. Ash is also a mere sketch without his current outfit design (basically no design) and both starters (despite Popplio not being his and its trainer being absent).

Granted they might someday decide to add such a scene, but thats not what this is, its just a sketch, nothing more at this point.
For me it is clearly a sketch of something from the anime because why put Mallow and Ash together in a scene? The only medium where Mallow and Ash both exist is the anime. That trainer, even if their design lacks details, has a Pikachu on their shoulder, making it pretty obvious we are talking about Ash. That Rowlet that is resting on Incineroar? Behaving identically to Ash's newly caught, carefree Rowlet.

I'm not saying this is from a storyboard, but I'm saying this is a clue that Ash will be getting Incineroar sooner rather than later as I think Litten will evolve fast.

So you are suggesting he is going to actually slam that on top of Pikachu, breaking it with the used force and then standing on top of the result (with a potentially squashed Pikachu underneath it). Seems a bit brutal for a kids show don't you think?
Not really, especially if it's done for comedy purposes. I mean the anime is treating Bewear, a deadly Pokemon that can snap anything in half as a joke. They had Bewear, a Pokemon that can snap a person in half, chasing Ash and turned it into a comedy scene. The same can be done for Incineroar.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
That picture from a leak can be from anime.You guys remember Charizard, how he quickily evolved from Charmeleon( in like 5-6 episodes)? I think that would be case here. Lana, Mallow and Ash had a assignment from Kukui to go somewhere( hence that's why they're boiling something).Incineroar upon evolving could easily disobey Ash,hence hitting Pikachu( Ash and anything).Rowlet is still in first stage, because Litten evolved in Torracat and took him 5-6 episodes to evolve into Incineroar( it could be that kids/everyone liked Litten and Incineroar, while Torracat isn't that loved)Then, Rowlet evolves fully later.
My other support here is that Charmeleon evolved in episode 46. And Bulbasaur refused to evolve in episode 51(if he didn't, he would have Ivysaur in 51 and Venusaur by episode 70 or something), meaning that's possible that Litten fully evolves while Rowlet is in first stage and later Rowlet fully evolves.
 

PAndrews

Well-Known Member
For me it is clearly a sketch of something from the anime because why put Mallow and Ash together in a scene? The only medium where Mallow and Ash both exist is the anime. That trainer, even if their design lacks details, has a Pikachu on their shoulder, making it pretty obvious we are talking about Ash. That Rowlet that is resting on Incineroar? Behaving identically to Ash's newly caught, carefree Rowlet.

I'm not saying this is from a storyboard, but I'm saying this is a clue that Ash will be getting Incineroar sooner rather than later as I think Litten will evolve fast.

While I do believe Ash is getting an Incinerator, this is by no means an indication or proof of it. Just look at the very first sketches of the gym leaders for Red&Blue, in which Brock is listed as nr2, indicating their was originally plans for someone else to go first. Sketches aren't fact, they are first drafts and rough idea's being thrown around and the occasional joke thrown in but can even obtain information that is later altered or shot down all together. So even if this sketch were to indicate a quick evolution, there is no proof they are actually going to follow through since again, sketches show rough idea's not concrete plans.

Its just a sketch showing someone practicing facial expressions, poses and even added a joke with Ash, its by no means a sketch of a future scene. The fact that the WRONG trainer is present next to Popplio makes it clear this is just someone messing around, since that is HUGE mistake to make if this is meant to be an actual situation to come.
Ash hasn't even caught Litten yet and its still not even 100% certain he will. Just look at Grubbin for proof that the intro can be misleading.

Not really, especially if it's done for comedy purposes. I mean the anime is treating Bewear, a deadly Pokemon that can snap anything in half as a joke. They had Bewear, a Pokemon that can snap a person in half, chasing Ash and turned it into a comedy scene. The same can be done for Incineroar.

Pokedex discriptions are meaningless in the anime though, since quite a few Pokemon are tremendously dangerous killing machines according to their dex entries. Unless you have an anime scene showing anime Bewear breaks people in half with hugs it doesn't appy here.
Pikachu being smacked upside the head with a table with enough force to break followed by Incinerator standing on top of said result with a pose it is not something the anime would ever allow.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
While I do believe Ash is getting an Incinerator, this is by no means an indication or proof of it. Just look at the very first sketches of the gym leaders for Red&Blue, in which Brock is listed as nr2, indicating their was originally plans for someone else to go first. Sketches aren't fact, they are first drafts and rough idea's being thrown around and the occasional joke thrown in but can even obtain information that is later altered or shot down all together. So even if this sketch were to indicate a quick evolution, there is no proof they are actually going to follow through since again, sketches show rough idea's not concrete plans.

Its just a sketch showing someone practicing facial expressions, poses and even added a joke with Ash, its by no means a sketch of a future scene. The fact that the WRONG trainer is present next to Popplio makes it clear this is just someone messing around, since that is HUGE mistake to make if this is meant to be an actual situation to come.
Ash hasn't even caught Litten yet and its still not even 100% certain he will. Just look at Grubbin for proof that the intro can be misleading.



Pokedex discriptions are meaningless in the anime though, since quite a few Pokemon are tremendously dangerous killing machines according to their dex entries. Unless you have an anime scene showing anime Bewear breaks people in half with hugs it doesn't appy here.
Pikachu being smacked upside the head with a table with enough force to break followed by Incinerator standing on top of said result with a pose it is not something the anime would ever allow.

While I do agree that sketches could be misleading, however I don't think you can just say that Ash catching a Grubbin in the intro is misleading since it's still possible that Ash could get Grubbin and if he does then the intro isn't misleading, plus you have got to consider that Ash has tried to catch Grubbin 2 times now and both times it seems like it maybe the same Grubbin. If I had to guess when Ash would get Grubbin it would be either after he gets Litten or after he gets Rockruff but probably after Litten.

Although I do agree that the sketch that shows Ash, Mallow, and the starters shouldn't be taken as concrete proof of what's going to happen, because that's something that could easily change. Although I'm not entirely sure why Litten possibly evolving is being talked about in a thread that doesn't even have anything to do with that.
 
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dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Just look at Grubbin for proof that the intro can be misleading.

Could we please all wait until Ash catches a Pokemon NOT implied by the opening before completely dismissing Grubbin? Such as after Litten/Rockruff. Because its not like Ash was allowed to catch Grubbin given the circumstances that happened.
 

Blue Saturday

Unfurl your Blessed Wings!
Pretty cool on the idea of Pikachu throwing a GigaVolt Havoc at Togedemaru and it just continuing to stand there like a boss and proceeding to fight on with Zing Zap to a possible victory, between being Steel-type, having two very good abilities and being under the care of a seemingly savvy and active trainer I just want to see Togedemaru come out of top. With Mimikyu and Togedemaru being Pikachu's rivals I wonder if this is the episode we see in the preview of Pikachu hanging from the roof after being hit by Shadow Ball. Plus I'd be hard pressed to call this a rivalry if Togedemaru gets schooled from day one, I'm positive Pikachu is overcoming Mimikyu soon so I want Togedemaru to have leverage in this rivalry from the beginning. If it truly is one that is pertaining to battle competence.

Or better yet have Togedemaru beat Mimikyu, Steel is good for Fairy after all and save Pikachu.
 
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Leonhart

Imagineer
Plus I'd be hard pressed to call this a rivalry if Togedemaru gets schooled from day one, I'm positive Pikachu is overcoming Mimikyu soon so I want Togedemaru to have leverage in this rivalry from the beginning. If it truly is one that is pertaining to battle competence.

I don't understand the basis for Togedemaru's rivalry with Pikachu in the first place. It seems like it might become an irritating gag in the long run, though.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
I don't understand the basis for Togedemaru's rivalry with Pikachu in the first place. It seems like it might become an irritating gag in the long run, though.

its gonna be like the 'brotherly' pikachu/dedenne bond, gone after the early episodes
 

IrieFuse

Unify To Thrive
Thats not how illustrating works though. This is a sketch which appears to be a concept design for Incinerator and not an actual anime scene. If this was meant for the anime, it would be a storyboard, not multiple images jumbled together on one-sheet.

Its clearly just rough sketches and designs. It includes deciding if he breaths fire or fires it from his belt, facial expressions, front and back design, wrestling moves, attacking Pikachu with a table (WWF style joke) and a joke scene of Ash and Mallow using his belt to boil water.
Its a sketch, not a storyboard so its not a scene. That makes it a clear sketchsheet of Incinerator and nothing more.

If you are going to argue this is a scene, then you are also saying Incinerator is going to slam a table on Pikachu (with a microphone flying away) at a wrestling match full WWF style.

please tell me you realize its name is Incineroar not "Incinerator"
 

Joltik-Kid

Careful? Where's the fun in that?
I'm not saying this is an anime reference sheet. This is a concept art for Incineroar with a sketch from an anime scene. Otherwise how do you explain Mallow, Ash, Pikachu...?
[img139]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b6/4a/ca/b64aca7f515b191d961bf24bb710f3e8.jpg[/img139]
Because Ash totally got that Venasaur am I right?
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Common Pikachu! You were so much injured battling a Grubbin that you had to be taken to a Pokemon center. You were completely overpowered by the Mimikyu. Now please at least win against Togedemaru!
 

Janovy

Banned
[img139]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b6/4a/ca/b64aca7f515b191d961bf24bb710f3e8.jpg[/img139]
Because Ash totally got that Venasaur am I right?
Please tell me you are not comparing those lol?

For starters, this image could easily be of the game protagonist? Why? There is no Pikachu, no clear sign to which medium this belongs (the Incineroar sketch makes it obvious it belongs to anime because there's a Pikachu on a boy's shoulder). Second, the Incineroar sketch clearly depicts Mallow together with Ash - that makes the sketch 100% anime-only because Ash does not exist or hang around Mallow in the games, only in the anime. Third, the Rowlet that is resting on Incineroar is acting the same as Ash's newly caught Rowlet.

I honestly don't know where you found that, but that doesn't even compare to what can be seen on the Incineroar sketch.
 

satopi

Life doesn’t end, …it changes.
You guys are still arguing over a simple sketch? It's obvious that that's a wild unconscious Incineroar that Ash, Mallow, and Pikachu can stumble upon in the woods. Who cares if it's a game character sketch or anime character sketch. Doesn't change that it's a character sketch.

And Mimikyu isn't OP. It's a strong Pokémon who we've only seen battle once or twice. I'm sure Pikachu can beat Togedemaru in battle in terms of strength. Great that Togedemaru isn't going down easily.
 
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