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December 16th: PM2019 136 - Satoshi and Go! Setting Off Anew!!

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Sham

npc
Agreed, Ash seems pretty close with all his companions....
...
...
.
Except for Chloe. Have they ever even talked to each other?
Chloe is more of an introvert but means well. She clearly cares enough to watch all of his battles in the PWC and left immediately before the match left started to cheer extra for Goh and herself.

I think the "problem" with Chloe is that she isn't constantly acknolwding how much Ash inspires or helps her constantly. It's very clear that she cares about and thanks him for letting her more out of her shell. I'm not sure how other people handle this but I put friendships in different boxes rather than "they must be more best friend or we aren't friends at all" and Chloe is the latter.
 

MunchMunch

Well-Known Member
Chloe is more of an introvert but means well. She clearly cares enough to watch all of his battles in the PWC and left immediately before the match left started to cheer extra for Goh and herself.

I think the "problem" with Chloe is that she isn't constantly acknolwding how much Ash inspires or helps her constantly. It's very clear that she cares about and thanks him for letting her more out of her shell. I'm not sure how other people handle this but I put friendships in different boxes rather than "they must be more best friend or we aren't friends at all" and Chloe is the latter.
Yep true, even in the beginning she kind of just did her own thing. She still viewed Goh as a friend, but wasn't constantly down his neck and went about her own problems by herself. I view Goh the same way, as well. Now that I think about it, both Goh and Chloe are quite different from Ash's other friends in that they're more independent. We even got episodes of the shows where Goh and Chloe starred in without Ash.
 

Sham

npc
Yep true, even in the beginning she kind of just did her own thing. She still viewed Goh as a friend, but wasn't constantly down his neck and went about her own problems by herself. I view Goh the same way, as well. Now that I think about it, both Goh and Chloe are quite different from Ash's other friends in that they're more independent. We even got episodes of the shows where Goh and Chloe starred in without Ash.
Yep, I actually think that's how trouble starts when you start assuming everybody is you close friend instead of examining what type of friendship that is and analyzing it, which is another conversation. And yes, it always boggle my mind how she almost treated Goh the exact same despite being friends since they were kids but the self inserts think she's plotting his demise. Almost instead of not acknowledging her personality and has nothing to do with the self insert Mental illness.

If a girl isn't constantly praising Ash and up his butt she's a witch
 
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Guy100

Well-Known Member
Well, its a no brainer of what Ash is going to do setting off; more pokemon training to become a Pokemon Master.

But, I'm now curious what type of objective Goh will purpose his journey. Perhaps wanting to see more of the world like Ash did and catch more pokemon and Mew? Just seems redundant, and not like Ash's previous training arc adventures, where he's not just catching pokemon but he's also using them for competitive battles and helping them to learn new moveset to toughen up for the big leagues.

Then again, Goh may just continue on being a research fellow as he goes to study more pokemon as he catches them, but i'm hoping there is something more. With no Project Mew for the time being, Goh's longevity to continue on as one of the main characters just seems unworthy of an exciting adaventure if there's no expectation of seizing a short-term goal at the end, if all he's doing is just collecting pokemon.

At least for Ash the short-term goals of his regional training arc adventure was to compete and win a league tournament to become a champion which would catapult him closer to his dream of being a master.


I've said it before, but of Goh doe end up going on his own seperate journey, I hope Ash at the near ending of this episode meets Lugia and capture it towards the end, and uses it as his mode of transportation to get to whatever destination he's going.
 

Sham

npc
Knowing that people were pooping on Chloe's conclusion arc (and so they should) but that PM was no better is self care. This truly was just an Ash wanking series
 

satopi

Rooting for best girl May!! X3
Goh is no more Ash's close friend than any other trainer he's travelled with. You could try and find "subtle" hints but that doesn't mean anything because he's never verbally said anything. If I were to give my opinion he's shown more moments with Dawn displaying how great their friendship is but it's for interpretation
Well, out of all the characters Ash reminisced on, it’s definitely Brock, Gary, and Tracey. Dawn is the top female friend he’ll think of.
I remember when people were coping so hard pretending that Unova didn't exist and so much so that they took a filler from XY (mirror universe) and convinced themselves that was mirror Ash and not the real one. So glad JN destroyed that theory and acknowledges it happened and existed.
You can still argue that Ash was on vacation mode, wasn’t thinking, and had a brand new team he trained off and on which is why he hasn’t done well in Isshu. BW is way too connected to the past (and it wasn’t merely on just character cameos like Dawn and Charizard.) I’d rather call BW a botched saga than a complete reset that didn’t exist. BW focused on bonds and comedy rather than pushing on the importance of the Pokémon League. If I gotta accept XY(&Z) as being canon then so are the other “lackluster” sagas. People can accept and forget dropped subplots that happened way back when anyway.
 

Sham

npc
You can still argue that Ash was on vacation mode, wasn’t thinking, and had a brand new team he trained off and on which is why he hasn’t done well in Isshu. BW is way too connected to the past (and it wasn’t merely on just character cameos like Dawn and Charizard.) I’d rather call BW a botched saga than a complete reset that didn’t exist. BW focused on bonds and comedy rather than pushing on the importance of the Pokémon League. If I gotta accept XY(&Z) as being canon then so are the other “lackluster” sagas. People can accept and forget dropped subplots that happened way back when anyway.

BW gave you:

Occasional Tournaments
A full time female battler since Misty
Team roation
An old Pokemon joining the team full time

A lot of it could've used work but that's the core issue. People revolve this entire series around Ash in every single instance and ignore what's going on around. We get that he's the main character but justifying this lackluster league just because he won is ridiculous. It's the same reason why people ignore the good qualities of BW because all they pay attention to is his battling skills yet praise XY despite giving them nothing but because he "got the girl" and "seemed like a teenager" people seen it as a win.


The main female character goals was boring a sh*t, Clemont and Bonnie hardly did anything and the Kalos League was one of the rushest leagues ever because they decided to have Alain sweep everybody but "OOOO ASH IS SO KEWL" makes up for everything bad in a series.
 
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Kazuniya

how cute~
BW gave you:

Occasional Tournaments
I really liked those. One of my favorite parts of BW was seeing everyone's rivals getting together to participate in smaller tournaments, especially Iris and Cilan's rivals, and seeing their comments and fun banter. It was a perfect excuse to give us some cool battles and character interactions. I'd love to see something like that brought back in the next series.
 

Sham

npc
Yes. Yes put some respect on BW’s name. Just because Ash was bozo doesn’t mean the entire series or characters were bad. Glad journeys acknowledge from the rivals watching, Drayden appearing, redrawing of Cynthia and Iris and Ash to Iris and Cilan traveling.

XY gave you nothing outside of Ash you still ate that up.
 
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Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
Why bother when you can have Koraidon instead :p

True enough.

Koraidon is so much better.

The game might have performance issues but I think it's the first time I really feel attached to the cover legendary (not counting Pikachu on Yellow/LGP, of course)
 

Damerdal

[Dam]n h[er] Gan[dal]f!
Yes. Yes put some respect on BW’s name. Just because Ash was bozo doesn’t mean the entire series or characters were bad. Glad journeys acknowledge from the rivals watching, Drayden appearing, redrawing of Cynthia and Iris and Ash to Iris and Cilan traveling.

XY gave you nothing outside of Ash you still ate that up.

BW would have been solid if it was the start of a brand new series with a new rookie protagonist not named Ash.

It just didn't work when it's the next series after Ash took out his strongest rival to date (who still hasn't been topped as a rival mind you) and defeated an overpowered Player Character with a Darkrai and Latios.

If DP had ended with Ash winning the Sinnoh League, and then there was a follow-up final arc like Journeys where Ash defeats the E4 and Champions to become the strongest trainer, then that would have been a good ending.
 

Sham

npc
BW would have been solid if it was the start of a brand new series with a new rookie protagonist not named Ash.

It just didn't work when it's the next series after Ash took out his strongest rival to date (who still hasn't been topped as a rival mind you) and defeated an overpowered Player Character with a Darkrai and Latios.

If DP had ended with Ash winning the Sinnoh League, and then there was a follow-up final arc like Journeys where Ash defeats the E4 and Champions to become the strongest trainer, then that would have been a good ending.
That's valid but my original point was that if you're letting your complete analysis comes from how Ash behaves and what he accomplishes is interesting to say the least. Some people who watch show simply aren't that interesting in him to let it sway your emotions. BW was probably a correct time especially with the two main characters slightly being like Brock and Misty.
 

Sham

npc
Okay, okay, I do like XY, but it is time to end this debate. Look at this here, nor BW nor DP is particularily liked according to this magazine:
As for XY, the easiest way to fix the XY debate is to just delete Serena. Problem solved! (insert Haha reaction)
I just recently reed that magazine lately but it's nothing approved by the series and is just some/publication giving their opinion. Anybody can have an opinion so how is that proving "XY is better" when it's nothing factual and can't be proven?
 
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Okay, okay, I do like XY, but it is time to end this debate. Look at this here, nor BW nor DP is particularily liked according to this magazine:
As for XY, the easiest way to fix the XY debate is to just delete Serena. Problem solved! (insert Haha reaction)
1. The magazine writers putting DP as one of the worst seasons is stupid. Put JN instead.
2. Serena is an amazing character with amazing development (Amourshipping aside) and there are other problems in XY than her (cough Ash-Greninja’s arc being a waste, Ashs Kalos team being jobbers and chokers sans Pikachu and the Kalos League cough)
 

satopi

Rooting for best girl May!! X3
BW gave you:

Occasional Tournaments
Yes, I loved the Don George Tournaments and how it was set up. Everyone including minor characters joined and it was all decent battles with good winners. It wasn’t just Ash sweeping through the competition like usual and we even got to know/root for reoccurring characters like Kenyan. All the rivals interacting with each other was one of the best scenes in Best Wishes. I also liked the little character plots like that Subway episode with centered on Dento.
A full time female battler since Misty
Yeah, and Iris was and still is a good rival/competitor against Ash. (I thought Saito has been a great battler but I think she eventually got dropped after the last time Ash beat her and we haven’t seen her since outside the small cameo at the PWC.) She was also in some ways, shown to have more or less the same competence in battling skill.
Team roation
I thought they did a pretty crappy job with rotation. I didn’t care for it. I hated that they kept over relying on stock animation. I still believe BW had some of the best filler episodes to make up for the sucky battles. I even enjoyed DA! Meloetta was a fun addition to the team and ending theme especially.
An old Pokemon joining the team full time
Let’s not forget that Meowth joined the BW Trio even after Iris tried to catch him twice. And it was for an extended amount of time. I know people were saying that Charizard was there just for fan service or to have someone similar to Iris’ Dragonite to duke it out but I really did think that Ash’s Charizard was going to have a bigger role against Giovanni.
A lot of it could've used work but that's the core issue. People revolve this entire series around Ash in every single instance and ignore what's going on around.
Had something sensitively tragic happened in XY early on like it did in BW, it wouldn’t have nearly been as good as the finished product we did get. Some people act like they care about Ash when they never did in the past until he started being a winner and self inserting themselves into him, while ranting about how much of a boring cardboard he is is straight congnitive dissonance. It’s different from the people who watch the anime for reasons other than Ash. There is good stuff in JN.
We get that he's the main character but justifying this lackluster league just because he won is ridiculous.
I never even saw the PWC as a traditional league. It just seemed like something that’s important because the show says that it’s important.
It's the same reason why people ignore the good qualities of BW because all they pay attention to is his battling skills yet praise XY despite giving them nothing but because he "got the girl" and "seemed like a teenager" people seen it as a win.
Ash acted no different than how he was in BW than he did in previous sagas and the same with XY. He was hyper focused on being a boring battle bot with some moments of being his normal, silly self. That other stuff is just wishful thinking from dumb fanboys who think Ash is only good for battles and none of that stuff even happened.
The main female character goals was boring a sh*t,
Also sexist as ****. Not one tomboy or boy shown at all. And we already know Showcases we’re made for Serena since she had nothing else going for her and the idol inspired goal was the only thing they could think of for a pretty girl.
Clemont and Bonnie hardly did anything
Clemont was a solid character until he lost to Ash at his own Gym. Bonnie did nothing until she sang her stupid song and told Zygarde to attack Lysandre. I did like her speech at the end.
and the Kalos League was one the rushiest leagues ever because they decided to have Alain sweep everybody but "OOOO ASH IS SO KEWL" makes up for everything bad in a series.
I guess the one good thing that did come out of the PWC that’s connected to XY was Alan getting a taste of his own medicine. Kalos League had good Ash battles and it was rushed. The likes of the Sinnoh League hasn’t had a worthy successor yet.
 
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