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December 16th: PM2019 136 - Satoshi and Go! Setting Off Anew!!
- Thread starter Dephender
- Start date
satopi
Life doesn’t end, …it changes.
Well, out of all the characters Ash reminisced on, it’s definitely Brock, Gary, and Tracey. Dawn is the top female friend he’ll think of.
You can still argue that Ash was on vacation mode, wasn’t thinking, and had a brand new team he trained off and on which is why he hasn’t done well in Isshu. BW is way too connected to the past (and it wasn’t merely on just character cameos like Dawn and Charizard.) I’d rather call BW a botched saga than a complete reset that didn’t exist. BW focused on bonds and comedy rather than pushing on the importance of the Pokémon League. If I gotta accept XY(&Z) as being canon then so are the other “lackluster” sagas. People can accept and forget dropped subplots that happened way back when anyway.
Sham
The Guardian of War
BW gave you:
Occasional Tournaments
A full time female battler since Misty
Team roation
An old Pokemon joining the team full time
A lot of it could've used work but that's the core issue. People revolve this entire series around Ash in every single instance and ignore what's going on around. We get that he's the main character but justifying this lackluster league just because he won is ridiculous. It's the same reason why people ignore the good qualities of BW because all they pay attention to is his battling skills yet praise XY despite giving them nothing but because he "got the girl" and "seemed like a teenager" people seen it as a win.
The main female character goals was boring a sh*t, Clemont and Bonnie hardly did anything and the Kalos League was one of the rushest leagues ever because they decided to have Alain sweep everybody but "OOOO ASH IS SO KEWL" makes up for everything bad in a series.
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Sham
The Guardian of War
Yes. Yes put some respect on BW’s name. Just because Ash was bozo doesn’t mean the entire series or characters were bad. Glad journeys acknowledge from the rivals watching, Drayden appearing, redrawing of Cynthia and Iris and Ash to Iris and Cilan traveling.
XY gave you nothing outside of Ash you still ate that up.
XY gave you nothing outside of Ash you still ate that up.
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Spider-Phoenix
#ChespinGang
Why bother when you can have Koraidon instead
True enough.
Koraidon is so much better.
The game might have performance issues but I think it's the first time I really feel attached to the cover legendary (not counting Pikachu on Yellow/LGP, of course)
Damerdal
[Dam]n h[er] Gan[dal]f!
BW would have been solid if it was the start of a brand new series with a new rookie protagonist not named Ash.
It just didn't work when it's the next series after Ash took out his strongest rival to date (who still hasn't been topped as a rival mind you) and defeated an overpowered Player Character with a Darkrai and Latios.
If DP had ended with Ash winning the Sinnoh League, and then there was a follow-up final arc like Journeys where Ash defeats the E4 and Champions to become the strongest trainer, then that would have been a good ending.
Sham
The Guardian of War
That's valid but my original point was that if you're letting your complete analysis comes from how Ash behaves and what he accomplishes is interesting to say the least. Some people who watch show simply aren't that interesting in him to let it sway your emotions. BW was probably a correct time especially with the two main characters slightly being like Brock and Misty.
Okay, okay, I do like XY, but it is time to end this debate. Look at this here, nor BW nor DP is particularily liked according to this magazine:
As for XY, the easiest way to fix the XY debate is to just delete Serena. Problem solved! (insert Haha reaction)
As for XY, the easiest way to fix the XY debate is to just delete Serena. Problem solved! (insert Haha reaction)
Sham
The Guardian of War
I just recently reed that magazine lately but it's nothing approved by the series and is just some/publication giving their opinion. Anybody can have an opinion so how is that proving "XY is better" when it's nothing factual and can't be proven?
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cricketlaxwolvesbandy
Summoning...
1. The magazine writers putting DP as one of the worst seasons is stupid. Put JN instead.
2. Serena is an amazing character with amazing development (Amourshipping aside) and there are other problems in XY than her (cough Ash-Greninja’s arc being a waste, Ashs Kalos team being jobbers and chokers sans Pikachu and the Kalos League cough)
cricketlaxwolvesbandy
Summoning...
Oh he certainly changed for the absolute worse from 2013 to 2016…
satopi
Life doesn’t end, …it changes.
Yes, I loved the Don George Tournaments and how it was set up. Everyone including minor characters joined and it was all decent battles with good winners. It wasn’t just Ash sweeping through the competition like usual and we even got to know/root for reoccurring characters like Kenyan. All the rivals interacting with each other was one of the best scenes in Best Wishes. I also liked the little character plots like that Subway episode with centered on Dento.
Yeah, and Iris was and still is a good rival/competitor against Ash. (I thought Saito has been a great battler but I think she eventually got dropped after the last time Ash beat her and we haven’t seen her since outside the small cameo at the PWC.) She was also in some ways, shown to have more or less the same competence in battling skill.
I thought they did a pretty crappy job with rotation. I didn’t care for it. I hated that they kept over relying on stock animation. I still believe BW had some of the best filler episodes to make up for the sucky battles. I even enjoyed DA! Meloetta was a fun addition to the team and ending theme especially.
Let’s not forget that Meowth joined the BW Trio even after Iris tried to catch him twice. And it was for an extended amount of time. I know people were saying that Charizard was there just for fan service or to have someone similar to Iris’ Dragonite to duke it out but I really did think that Ash’s Charizard was going to have a bigger role against Giovanni.
Had something sensitively tragic happened in XY early on like it did in BW, it wouldn’t have nearly been as good as the finished product we did get. Some people act like they care about Ash when they never did in the past until he started being a winner and self inserting themselves into him, while ranting about how much of a boring cardboard he is is straight congnitive dissonance. It’s different from the people who watch the anime for reasons other than Ash. There is good stuff in JN.
I never even saw the PWC as a traditional league. It just seemed like something that’s important because the show says that it’s important.
Ash acted no different than how he was in BW than he did in previous sagas and the same with XY. He was hyper focused on being a boring battle bot with some moments of being his normal, silly self. That other stuff is just wishful thinking from dumb fanboys who think Ash is only good for battles and none of that stuff even happened.
Also sexist as ****. Not one tomboy or boy shown at all. And we already know Showcases we’re made for Serena since she had nothing else going for her and the idol inspired goal was the only thing they could think of for a pretty girl.
Clemont was a solid character until he lost to Ash at his own Gym. Bonnie did nothing until she sang her stupid song and told Zygarde to attack Lysandre. I did like her speech at the end.
I guess the one good thing that did come out of the PWC that’s connected to XY was Alan getting a taste of his own medicine. Kalos League had good Ash battles and it was rushed. The likes of the Sinnoh League hasn’t had a worthy successor yet.
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
Ash Ketchum!
Pokemon Trainer
OS or DP >>>
Morax
King of heroes
I wannat meet your serbian students.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
Yeah BW's goodbye sucked but the final episode at Oaks lab was genuinely good and a great segway to the next series
OS, DP, XY and SM all had great finales but
AG's finale (both of them) sucked ass, sorry not sorry
