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December 1st: PM2019 003: Fushigisou is Quite Mysterious, Don't You Think Sou?

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AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.
Why, no. I do not think Ivysaur is quite mysterious.

EI1DHHbUYAE2WGA.jpg

I don't like that the Ivysaur seems to be in pain and Ash is just a grinning loon
That Ivysaur doesn't look like it's in pain, though...
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
Why, no. I do not think Ivysaur is quite mysterious.


That Ivysaur doesn't look like it's in pain, though...
I assume you know that the title is a pun on Ivysaur's name, right?
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen

Kazuniya

read/watch dungeon meshi
Can't wait for Pocket Monsters to evolve the rest of Ash's Kanto starters. We start with Bulbasaur... :D
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
I doubt Ash's Bulbasaur is here, but even if it is, I'm sure Bulbasaur and Squirtle will never evolve. They're basically mascot pokemon similar to Piplup, Rowlett, etc.

Tell that to Gamefreak, and their Charizard favoritism.

Mascot? Hardly?

Mascot in the anime? I don't think it matters after 20 years and we've barely seen it.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Yes it does, established mascot pokemon never evolve. Ash's Cyndaquil was never treated as a marketable pokemon so they could evolve it.

Just like if Rowlett ever appears again, even now that SM is over, it still likely will never evolve.

I literally do not see how it matters. The decision to not evolve Bulbasaur was made over 20 years. Within 20 years Pokemon anime has likely had a lot of changing of hands to who has authority. If they choose to evolve Ash's Bulbasaur they will.

Us fans literally have no say in the matter at all. Just because we think of it as a mascot (for whatever reason that makes sense), considering Squirtle had far more reasons NOT to evolve than Bulbasaur outside of that one episode, doesn't mean it is a Mascot Pokemon.

And if it was such a Mascot Pokemon, they wouldn't have left May's Bulbasaur with Ash's Bulbasaur, let alone fully evolve it.

And you're kind of wrong about Cyndaquil, they literally had an episode in JOHTO in which Cyndaquil doesn't evolve and Ash said "I like Cyndaquil the way it is" indicating that they were sticking with Cyndaquil NOT evolving, then they decide to evolve in 4th generation LIKELY because someone else was running the anime and decided on it evolving. Besides what there wasn't a mascot in 2nd generation? Despite Cyndaquil being constantly used in almost every gym battle, and favored over Chikorita and Totodile (at least prior to the league, where Charizard got favored in the end). So there wasn't a mascot?

Just like how there wasn't a mascot in 3rd generation but suddenly the 4th gen had a mascot, likely 5th if you're counting Axew, likely 6th if you count Chespin. But not the 2nd and 3rd generations?
 

AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.
Bulbasaur is never evolving. He refuses to evolve, just like Pikachu not wanting to evolve. Just as how Rowlet doesn't want to evolve because he'd rather weaponize an Everstone all his life.

Any other Pokemon from Ash's that hasn't expressed refusal to evolving have the door wide open, just like Cyndaquil.

Regardless, Bulbasaur isn't in this episode...for now.
 

World Turtle

Well-Known Member
Bulbasaur is never evolving. He refuses to evolve, just like Pikachu not wanting to evolve.

He could always change his mind can't he? And maybe he just didn't want to evolve right then against his will and wanted to evolve on his own time on his own terms.

I doubt Ash's Bulbasaur is here, but even if it is, I'm sure Bulbasaur and Squirtle will never evolve. They're basically mascot pokemon similar to Piplup, Rowlett, etc.

Pipulup and Rowlet didn't evolve because they were the cutest starters and therefore more marketable in their basic stages. I like Bulbasaur and Squirtle, but they weren't any cuter then Charmander. Plus its their final stages that are the mascots of the RGBY era with Pikachu and Charizard. It's not Bulbasaur and Squirtle on the box covers it's Venusaur and Blastoise.

They weren't evolved back then because Ash was the underdog and Shudo didn't want Ash to be too powerful* and it took Ash till after the League to get Charizard to listen to him. Also probably so Pikachu could have Pokemon his own height to hang out with.

Neither of these two factors are an issue anymore.

*Among other issues given his notes gave the impression he didn't care for the pokemon training aspect of the show given his plans for a pokemon revolution and for Ash to realize his dream was childish and that he needed to grow up.

And you're kind of wrong about Cyndaquil, they literally had an episode in JOHTO in which Cyndaquil doesn't evolve and Ash said "I like Cyndaquil the way it is" indicating that they were sticking with Cyndaquil NOT evolving, then they decide to evolve in 4th generation LIKELY because someone else was running the anime and decided on it evolving.

Which episode was this?
 
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AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.
He could always change his mind can't he?
Unfortunately, there has never been a situation when a Pokemon who initially refuses to evolve wants to evolve soon. Either they refuse, or they evolve with no desire to say so.

The closest we got was with Lusamine evolving Clefairy, though that was mostly because Lillie wasn't told about it until it was too late. Clefable was clearly happy to evolve without hearing from Lillie.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
It'd be kind of jarring to see Ash with Ivysaur after twenty years of Bulbasaur staying the same. Not sure how I would feel.

Regardless I think Bulbasaur can still show up here since SM did bother to include him in the Kanto special
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
He could always change his mind can't he? And maybe he just didn't want to evolve right then against his will and wanted to evolve on his own time on his own terms.



Pipulup and Rowlet didn't evolve because they were the cutest starters and therefore more marketable in their basic stages. I like Bulbasaur and Squirtle, but they weren't any cuter then Charmander. Plus its their final stages that are the mascots of the RGBY era with Pikachu and Charizard. It's not Bulbasaur and Squirtle on the box covers it's Venusaur and Blastoise.

They weren't evolved back then because Ash was the underdog and Shudo didn't want Ash to be too powerful* and it took Ash till after the League to get Charizard to listen to him. Also probably so Pikachu could have Pokemon his own height to hang out with.

Neither of these two factors are an issue anymore.

*Among other issues given his notes gave the impression he didn't care for the pokemon training aspect of the show given his plans for a pokemon revolution and for Ash to realize his dream was childish and that he needed to grow up.



Which episode was this?
I'm pretty sure it's the Bugsy episode? My memory of OS is hazy.

It'd be kind of jarring to see Ash with Ivysaur after twenty years of Bulbasaur staying the same. Not sure how I would feel.

Regardless I think Bulbasaur can still show up here since SM did bother to include him in the Kanto special

I always wanted Ivysaur for Ash. Squirtle is cool enough as it is.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Which episode was this?

You're a star, Larvitar.

Ash wanted to evolve Cyndaquil, but at the end decided he was fine with Cyndaquil as it was, Cyndaquil didn't make any sort of attempt to be excited about evolving then, rather timid about the whole situation (if I remember that part correctly)

If it was going to evolve during the 2nd generation, it would have evolved in that episode. Clearly the writers/producers said "Nah" at that time. They changed their mind at the end of the 4th generation.

Sure, it could've been a stupid decision back then and someone decided to rectify it, because only Chikorita evolved at the time, but it's not like Ash's Bulbasaur has MUCH of a role except for Oak lab episodes. So it evolving into Ivysaur isn't going to be the end of the world. Plus they may want to rectify on not giving Ash an Ivysaur, while only having Charizard as well as Squirtle and we all know why Squirtle isn't going to evolve. At least Bulbasaur has a chance at evolving, if they decide Bulbasaur is ready to evolve.
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
I've wanted Ash to get Ivysaur since Pokémon Trainer became a character in Smash and it'd fit exactly. But I'm not expecting it
 

i2i

Big Bad Wolf
Why do people think Ash is bringing back old pokemon in general? I'm sure one of the scans/magazine stuff would have said something by now. Nothing indicates Ash is using his old pokemon this series at all.

Most fans here believe that the fact Ash is traveling to past regions in this series he might bring back or reunite with his old Pokémon in the region he originally caught them in.
 

Revolver Furious Dragon

Well-Known Member
Why do people think Ash is bringing back old pokemon in general? I'm sure one of the scans/magazine stuff would have said something by now. Nothing indicates Ash is using his old pokemon this series at all.

Because people like to make wild speculations based on nothing.
 

Kazuniya

read/watch dungeon meshi
Because people like to make wild speculations based on nothing.
That's objectively false.

1. Ash's old Pokemon were featured even in SM when he was back in Kanto.
2. Ash is now back in Kanto, why wouldn't they at least briefly show his old Pokemon?

How is that speculation based on nothing?

Also, people aren't speculating Ash will *use* his old Pokemon, just that we'll see them again. Big difference. So yeah, it's not based on nothing when there's plenty of reasons to assume it could happen. In other words, you are wrong.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Because people like to make wild speculations based on nothing.

I think its more that people need to stop having these ridiculous assumptions that they know how this series is going to work exactly.

We literally know NOTHING about how this series is going to work. Therefore technically everything is on the table.

And until we at least have some kind of consistency, or something with less chaos, its going to be impossible to know what they are planning.

Like let's just make an assumption right here: Ash will only catch Galar Pokemon.

You see that would make sense considering all the other series that took place in a specific location, Ash caught Pokemon of that generation.

But until they decide to stick with a region, that's not going to be the case here in this series because of what this series appears to be about. It would be extremely weird if Ash ONLY caught Galar Pokemon of the few times he goes to Galar, ON TOP of that it would be weird to have Ash take his Galar only Pokemon to every region in the world.

There likely has to be a mix of Ash catching other regional Pokemon or using other regional Pokemon while also using Galar Pokemon so as the series doesn't feel disjointed or weird, Ash would likely need to battle Gyms right, and Ash is going to be battling because he did specifically he said he wanted to become a better battler.

But then your argument is: What if Go exists so Ash doesn't capture Pokemon, there's no need for him to capture Pokemon, right?

Then Ash would have no choice but TO use his older Pokemon because I highly doubt Ash is ONLY ever going to battle Pikachu. It would get boring FAST, and I would not be a fan of that, I don't think anyone would be a fan of Ash using only Pikachu for over 100 episodes.

So what is it? What will Ash's purpose in the show? His Pokemon?

Exactly! WE DO NOT KNOW. BECAUSE WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS SERIES.

It is SO different than any other generation, how could anyone think "Ash won't use his past generation Pokemon" is a valid speculation. This isn't 1st generation to 7th generation. Though to be clear in certain episodes, Ash did use his older Pokemon. HINT HINT HINT. Like Battle Frontier or even the Sinnoh League. And Ash did bring back his Bulbasaur to meet May's Bulbasaur. So is it really even a valid argument/speculation to even begin with? Only in the context we don't know what's going to happen, but that doesn't automatically invalidate speculation that Ash WILL use his past generation Pokemon.

We literally just don't know. The formula as we know it, completely erased the moment they confirmed they would travel to all the regions. The formula was also erased when it was confirmed that the Sakragi Lab would act as a homebase for Ash and Go. There's literally nothing about the past generations that we could even remotely apply here in sort of semblance of any clear formula. You have stories, and characters, and that's it. Anything else is just a random guess.

I mean the Mysterious Garden already proves that they are bringing past stories back to the anime. Since that was exclusively only for Ash's Bulbasaur, especially since it was never brought up (except maybe a flashback in sun and moon maybe, is that what's being said).

Why bring back the Mysterious Garden or the elements of Bulbasaur evolving, if it wasn't some huge implication there would be some continuity brought to the series? Especially with all that traveling to all these regions, there would inevitably have to be some crossover at some point. Galar would be the only real region they could do whatever with.

But if say 30 episodes of this series takes place in Hoenn, how could they get away with having 30 episodes, but not even remotely touch ANY of the elements Ash did when he was in the Hoenn Region. No gym leaders, no same locations, no character of the day. Can you really sit there and say that Ash going to Petalburgh City, that he wouldn't run into Norman, Caroline or Max, at all, conveniently or they wouldn't be mentioned at all.

At the very least they could only get away with it by making this series a reboot. If its the same Ash that we've always known that's going to be an impossible feat to pull off. It would have to ultimately be the BIGGEST stretch ever by the writers. Especially with the Ho-oh episode.
 
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