Soniman
Break the Limit
SANDSHREW GET BACK THE THE PEWL
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December 29th: PM2019 007: The Houen Region, Site of Fierce Fights! The Battle Frontier Challenge!!
- Thread starter Dephender
- Start date
- Status
TheWanderingMist
Paladin of the Snow Queen
I expect karma to hit evil characters in children's shows, which this is. I also expect the narrative not to destroy other people's characterization just so the writers' pet gets more praise. Such as Ash and Cynthia in DP040. Ash defends Paul abandoning the match, which makes absolutely no sense given Ash's personality. Paul didn't abandon the match to spare his Pokémon. He abandoned it because he was a coward. See below for Cynthia.
Cynthia battled Paul, watched him yell at his Pokemon for his own mistakes, saw that he wasn't even going to take them to a Pokemon Center, and was just like "I'll heal you Pokemon" and "It's just different training methods" after which she left. And given that Paul does not change, I can guarantee what happened during the Hearthome tournament was a common occurence with Chimchar getting the harshest treatment.
Considering AJ was back in the Shudo era, it's very different. Sandshrew probably would've been one of the leading revolution members.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
He wasn't a coward lol. It's similar to Pokemon adventures where blue ends the fight with mew coz clearly he is outmatched. That's the same.
Yeah just because they get karma usually doesn't mean it should always happen. Their rivalry was always meant for Ash to triumph over Paul with his training method using a Pokemon Paul discarded as weak. It's thematic and made sense. Just because Paul is a harsh trainer doesn't mean he is a weak trainer, so him driving the match to the ire makes perfect sense. His Pokemon are loyal to him as shown when they were sad he lost and accept him, it's loyalty, Pokemon never abandon their trainers. His arc was set up to make his training methods in the end inferior coz he didn't show compassion which helped bring out chimchars strength. Ash doesn't contradict himself in DP040 he just explains him abandoning it. And yeah Paul is harsh but it doesnt make sense for cynthia to invade in it. And you want the cliche regrets his decision in the children show but you are mad when the cliche almost loses but gets up in the last second to win happens?
Your criticism of Paul is contradictory. I can get if it's ur opinion u don't like how he was handled but claiming it is a fact that it was bad and dragging down everyone who likes it is childish.
Yeah just because they get karma usually doesn't mean it should always happen. Their rivalry was always meant for Ash to triumph over Paul with his training method using a Pokemon Paul discarded as weak. It's thematic and made sense. Just because Paul is a harsh trainer doesn't mean he is a weak trainer, so him driving the match to the ire makes perfect sense. His Pokemon are loyal to him as shown when they were sad he lost and accept him, it's loyalty, Pokemon never abandon their trainers. His arc was set up to make his training methods in the end inferior coz he didn't show compassion which helped bring out chimchars strength. Ash doesn't contradict himself in DP040 he just explains him abandoning it. And yeah Paul is harsh but it doesnt make sense for cynthia to invade in it. And you want the cliche regrets his decision in the children show but you are mad when the cliche almost loses but gets up in the last second to win happens?
Your criticism of Paul is contradictory. I can get if it's ur opinion u don't like how he was handled but claiming it is a fact that it was bad and dragging down everyone who likes it is childish.
Half of Ash's captures abandoned their trainers.
Power Up
...
I watched Sinnoh 9 or so years ago, I barely remember specifics from BW, let alone DP.
I have zero dog in this supposed " debate " no matter how dumb I think it is
That said, I seem to remember that Ash did have a problem with what Paul did and Ash did think what Paul was doing was wrong and the show showed that several times
You're clearly letting your narrative biases influence your perception of the storytelling done in DP. That's fine of course, I have my own biases, but you're seriously close-minded to believe that media has to be black and white in portraying actions
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
No they didn't. The trainers abandoned THEM. And then ash came along and took them, and they chose ash over that original trainer. What the hell?
xinfernapex
Sinnoh Champion
That would actually be a cool idea. Would explain why the episode wasn’t revealed until now
Red and Blue
Well-Known Member
Intellion isnt in the title or summary though. Revealing episode 7 earlier wouldnt have spoiled anything
I do remember that Ash's Snivy abandoned her first trainer on her own
mehmeh1
Not thinking twice!
Snivy and Froakie?
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
Froakie was a special case. It was searching for someone to draw about its latent abilities that is bond phenomenon. Snivy had an attitude as far as i remember. Whereas Paul's Pokemon accepted their trainers training methods and adopted it. They became loyal to Paul, it was evident when they became sad that Paul last.
TheWanderingMist
Paladin of the Snow Queen
Paul didn't end the fight, he ran away from it because he was losing.
If the "gets up at the last second" had been 1/4 as long I wouldn't be as mad, but I'd still be mad. 20 seconds is unacceptable when the ref called other matches in 3 IN THE SAME BATTLE. And again, Sinnoh is THE ONLY REGION where someone using Paul's methods was even allowed to work the way it did. Every other region would have his Pokemon either weak or disloyal.
I don't care if Paul regrets his actions or not. I want him punished for them regardless, and they just would not let it happen.
Snivy abandoned her Trainer, and Froakie abandoned countless Trainers. And it's not loyalty when the Trainers are like Paul. It's f***ing Stockholm Syndrome.
And to top it off, his reason for being so awful is absolutely pathetic. I'd be far more sympathetic if he'd lost a Pokemon because his weren't strong enough. But no. His entire reason for being such an arrogant jerk is "Wah, my brother lost to Brandon."
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
You don't get it, seeing his brother lose like that made him consider him weak, and his training method inferior, which is why he adopted his harsh training regime. His ideology ultimately fails to Ash's ideology as he is defeated by his own Pokemon who he couldn't draw out the full strength because of his training method. Which leads to him showing hints of change when he leaves the show, it was part of growth for his character. It doesn't matter what you call it Stockholm syndrome or whatever but his Pokemon were loyal and accepted his training methods. It wouldn't make sense for them to disobey him causing him to lose. Ur proposition of ash vs Paul is so lame and anticlimatic and ruins their entire rivalry just to push a moral agenda. It was perfect as it was
I mean, which methods? Having all his Pokemon attack one of his Pokemon? Ash did that in the same region.
Catching a bunch of Pokemon and switching them out? Gary did that.
Giving up in the middle of a battle should have disqualified him, but that's different from his strength.
From what we've seen of Paul's training, it's nothing too harsh. He's a jerk, but most of that comes from stuff outside of battle, like the Maylene incident.
As for loyalty, his Pokemon are a lot like him, as shown by Elekid. Even if they weren't, Pokemon tend to just follow orders no matter how bad the trainer, as Ekans taught us.
Red and Blue
Well-Known Member
Wonder how much longer we can keep this Paul discussion going before a mod shuts it down?
Why don't we get back on topic. This is a thread about this episode, not about Paul. Thank you.
Red and Blue
Well-Known Member
If we are talking Gen 8 Pokemon making a appearance in the tournament there is Obstagoon. Zigzagoon was the only Gen 3 Pokemon to get a Galarian form and evolution
CMButch
Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Paul is still the best rival to date. Perfectly written, dark, and quite opposite than any rival so far. He was factually unique. In the end he turned out to be a "good guy" making his arc worthy of everyone's time. Done. Period.Case closed.
Back to the topic, the episode, not Paul. Thanks.
Spider-Phoenix
#ChespinGang
If I recall correctly, Iris and Cilan speculated Snivy was trained.
For this case, we'd need Dephender or someone else with a good understanding of japanese to double check the scene and clarify things.
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