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Definitive Uber List

Discussion in '3rd Gen RMT' started by Netbattle, Feb 19, 2005.

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  1. Netbattle

    Netbattle Banned

    Deoxys / Deoxys-E / Deoxys-F / Deoxys-L / Groudon / Ho-oh / Kyogre / Latias / Latios / Lugia / Mew / Mewtwo / Rayquaza / Wobbuffet.

    These are the ONLY pokemon that are uber

    Jirachi, isn't uber due too it's 'limited movepool'

    Celebi, isn't uber due too the fact that it has 7 weaknesses (4x to Bug,2x to Fire/Flying/Posion/Ice/Dark/Ghost)

    Slaking isn't uber despite having the same base stat total as kyogre, due to its abillity Truant

    Other legends aren't uber (Articuno/Zapdos/Moltres/Raikou/Suicune/Entei/Regice/Registeel/Regirock)
    no matter how much you say they are, they aren't.
     
  2. Hey Micky!

    Hey Micky! Well-Known Member

    Because if you classify them as Uber you also classify Metagross, Salamence, Dragonite and Tyranitar as Uber since their stats are better.

    Just figured I'd add that ;)

    [Just so you know, this is gonna turn into another arguement topic about who is and isn't Uber]
     
  3. Aaron

    Aaron Banned

    k well the only thing id argue about is mew. i think its BL...

    anyway can a mod sticky and delete the replies so that we dont get any silly questions about whats uber and what isnt?
     
  4. Cromat

    Cromat Guest

    might as well add a complete review of the standard rules

    I think I wrote than when I made the guide with HT (it got deleted)

    edit: here it is


    Things that are ok to clause/ban:

    1) Ubers - Latios, Latias, Rayquaza, Kyogre, Groudon, Ho-oh, Lugia, Mewtwo, Deoxys (all forms) have better stats and/or moves and as such they ruin the game's balance and shouldn't be used. Celebi is not Uber. Jirachi isn't too. Mew is debatable, but his movepool makes him overpowered. Latios and Latias are Uber regardless of Soul Dew. Wobbufett is also considered uber, for the fact that you can't counter it. How can you counter something that you can't switch out against? And that can Encore you and kill you with Mirror Coat/Counter or Encore something like Rest and then setup his own pokemon. Wobbufett is uber.

    2) Double Team/Minimize (Evasion) - These moves make the game based more on luck than skill. Using Double Team requires no skill at all, and depends only on luck. You can use DT once and have your opponent miss every time or you can DT 6 times and have your opponent hit each time. Sure, it is counterable. Haze can ruin it, but what if Umbreon Taunts your Weezing? To Haze it you need some horrible Hazer like Crobat. Aerial Ace and the other never-miss moves are fine, but what is AA going to do to Umbreon? Nothing, that's what. Anyway, don't use Double Team.

    3) OHKOs (Fissure, Horn Drill, Guillotine, Sheer Cold) - These moves make the game based ONLY on luck rather than skill. There is no counter to OHKOs. You can use Subsitute, but what if Lapras OHKOs your Raikou on it's way out? Ahh, but there's Sturdy! Sturdy pokemon can't be hit by OHKOs! They're the answer! Wrong. Sturdy pokemon are Ground/Steel/Rock types. Of the 4 OHKO moves, only Sheer Cold has no immunities (it's also the only one of them that can hit Gengar/Missy). Therefore, it's the best OHKO move, and the most popular (especially on Articuno or Sleep Talking Lapras). So let's say I sent Skarmory out on Lapras' Sheer Cold. Ha Lapras! You can't hit me with your Sheer Cold! Well, Lapras will just Surf/Thunderbolt your Skarmory/Steelix until it dies, and that's usually 2 turns. Sheer Cold users have nothing to fear of Sturdy pokemon, as they can usually kill them with their normal moves anyway. So, Sturdy is not the answer. OHKOs have no counter, except hoping your opponent will miss enough. They should never be used.

    4) Sleep Clause - The Sleep Clause says that only one pokemon in a team can be put to sleep at a time. This rule is vital if you want the game to be enjoyable and fair. Otherwise Pokemon would be all about Agility/Spore Smeargle, you'll need a Hypno/Bannete on every team, and everything would be forced to use Chesto Berry. It would ruin Pokemon. Also if one team is made to take advantage of the lack of Sleep Clause, the other one has practially no chance to win without some serious luck, even if it's overall better. Do the world a favor and enforce this clause.

    Now that we established what's cheap and what's not, I can say this:

    Anything not of the 4 above IS NOT CHEAP, NOT OVERPOWERED, SHOULDN'T BE CLAUSED/BANNED OR LOOKED DOWN ON. THIS INCLUDES: BLISSEY, SKARMORY, CELEBI, CM LEGENDS, CM SUICUNE, LEECH SEED, SUBSITUTE, HIDDEN POWER, CHANSEY, SNORLAX, SALAMENCE, TYRANITAR, BELLYZARD OR WHATEVER YOU MAY THINK IS CHEAP ISN'T. IF YOU LOSE TO ONE OF THEM, FIX YOUR TEAM ACCORDINGLY.

    It's actually deeper than that. It's also a certain way of life. You don't have the right to make the rules. You don't have the right to decide what's the moral way to play Pokemon. Those 4 rules were made because Pokemon is an unbalanced game, so it needs those rules to remain fun even after so much time. Ignore these rules and you will lose respect in the eyes of other players. But, other than those 4 rules, don't clause anything else. The 5th rule is this: Play to win.
     
  5. HoundoomTrainer

    HoundoomTrainer YOU GIVE ME MIGRAINE

    Mew is so debatable. Definately debatable. Really.

    Also guys the other day someone IMed me and said I was one of the best on NB, lol. XD
     
  6. ~-=Mewtwo=-~

    ~-=Mewtwo=-~ Guest

    Yay, a non-smelly re-birth of my thread!!! Well Mew can't be debateble since most TM moves can't be used in strategy...
     
  7. Atlantius

    Atlantius Guest

    About the Sleep Clause:

    I think it should be changed to make the max number of pokes asleep from 1 to 2. Especially since Blissey (a cleric) is so ridiculously common these days. I use sleep-powdering Venusaur, and I get sick of folks just sacrificing one team member to avoid all the rest of their pokes from falling asleep, pretty much making Vena useless for the rest of the battle.

    And I personally think that if Wobbuffet is considered Uber, so should Bliss, Skarm, etc. I don't like wasting team slots to use some sort of Skarm-Bliss/CalmCune/etc. counter, making them as hard as Wobbu to take out (if used correctly). His stats aren't incredibly high (which ultimately defines the rest of the Ubers), so why does that fact that he can Encore-switch make him Uber? Can't I do the same with something else with high defenses? Well, I won't go into depth unless people start whining and arguing with me.
     
  8. Moonlight

    Moonlight Guest

    And for the half-minded people, pictures to remind them:

    [IMG135]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pkrs161.gif[/IMG135][IMG135]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pkrs196.gif[/IMG135][IMG135]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pkrs197.gif[/IMG135][IMG135]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pkrs198.gif[/IMG135][IMG135]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pkrs199.gif[/IMG135][IMG135]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pkrs200.gif[/IMG135][IMG135]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pkrs202.gif[/IMG135][IMG135]http://www.serebiiforums.com/newforums/images/avatars/frlg/386-lg.gif[/IMG135][IMG135]http://www.serebiiforums.com/newforums/images/avatars/frlg/386-fr.gif[/IMG135][img135]http://www.serebiiforums.com/newforums/images/avatars/386-em.gif[/img135][IMG135]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pkrs305.gif[/IMG135][IMG135]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pkrs306.gif[/IMG135][IMG135]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pkrs384.gif[/IMG135][IMG135]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pkrs385.gif[/IMG135]

    That's all the ubers in picture form.
     
  9. Aaron

    Aaron Banned

    using dugtrio will solve this problem.
     
  10. Netbattle

    Netbattle Banned

    Wobbuffet is seriously a lot harder to beat then SkarBliss

    Also SkarBliss isn't a pokemon so it can't be uber

    ty, Cromat and Moonlight for adding good stuff.
     
  11. rawrimacat

    rawrimacat Guest

    beat up@houndoom will kill skarmbliss pretty easily
     
  12. Phaedra

    Phaedra IS THAT PAM GRIER??

    Though it takes a bit of luck, I've found Venusaur/Tyraniboah will counter mista big wobbles. Just pray to God Sleep Powder hits or get a Sub up and wait for Encore to fade. Afterwards just hammer away at him with Sludge Bombs or repeated Crunches and Subs.
     
  13. Hey Micky!

    Hey Micky! Well-Known Member

    Encore > Switch

    That's what makes him so difficult. He Encores something, switches to a stat booster, stat booster stat ups and then sweeps the entire team.

    Can someone write a "Why Wobbuffet is Uber F.A.Q" and psot some log examples as to how Wobba can at least be guarentied to KO at least 1 Pokemon. All these stupid "Wobba isn't 00ber!" arguements are getting annoying. I don't think anyone here who has faced a well-used Wobba would disagree that it is 00ber. It may look easy to KO on paper, but it damn well isn't.

    And to those who disagree with clausing it, Dux calculated the power of struggle if two Wobba's encountered each other and got the struggle war point. Leftovers would recover all the lost HP from the struggles and in the end we'd be waiting for someone's power to cut out... In basics, allow people to use Wobbuffet, be at risk of the ****est stall war ever.
     
  14. Mr.Internet

    Mr.Internet Guest

    - Because of Shadow Tag, you can't get your Houndoom, Heracross etc. in. You have to sacrifice a Pokemon just to even TRY to get your counter in, and a smart Wobbuffet user will just switch out, and it sure will be back to **** you up.
    - With Counter and Mirror Coat, and excellent HP, if you use an attacking move you will die, and a smart Wobbuffet user would predict moves and Counter/Mirror Coat right back in your face without even Encoring. Choice Banders not named Heracross/Toxic Dugtrio (lol) are simply screwed.
    - Encore, which is one of the two main reasons Wobbuffet is uber. If you use a non-damaging move, Wobbuffet will simply Encore it and switch to a counter or even a Pokemon that will set up.
    - Even through it can't heal itself, smart Wobbuffet users would support it with Wish and Heal Bell, making it more a ***** to take down.
    - Wobbuffet can switch out freely at the first sign of trouble.
    - Thus, only counters are Toxic Dugtrio, Gardevoir, Toxic Trapinch, Toxic Porygon2, and you have to sacrifice a Pokemon to get those in, since if Wobbuffet is switched in P2/Gardevoir they can't Trace Shadow Tag and Dugtrio/Trapinch usually have CB so they cant switch moves. Plus all of those are pretty rare.
     
  15. Netbattle

    Netbattle Banned

    Safeguard wobba > Toxic Trapinch BTW

    Well stalls it out of toxics if it has CB or generally rapes it
     
  16. Hyozanryu

    Hyozanryu Guest

    and then it can use destiney bond if he senses that he will get KO'd
     
  17. Hey Micky!

    Hey Micky! Well-Known Member

    Well, me and Dux set out to prove that Wobba should be banend by having a:

    Wobbuffet / Wynaut / Mew (transform) / Smeargle (transform) / Ditto (transform) / Skitty (assist)

    battle with leftovers banned. We faield because after 20 mins both me and Dux wanted to suicide, but here's the log of 180ish turns:

     
  18. Hey Micky!

    Hey Micky! Well-Known Member

    Continued...

    Hopefully I've proved the point that Wobbuffet is the most NEEDED to be claused Pokemon EVER
     
  19. Hey Micky!

    Hey Micky! Well-Known Member

    We just sat there clicking random buttons since it hardly mattered. Neither of us paid much attention, but it was still 20 mintues of utter hell.

    Either way, if people don'tbelieve Wobbuffet's incredible staying power isn't enough of a reason to clause him, the potential of 2 Wobbuffet's meeting each other should be enough reason.
     
  20. indigestible_wad

    indigestible_wad Well-Known Member

    Wobbufett can be easily countered by leech seed or toxic, as it cannot attack. All you have to do is have the right pokemon out at the right time.
     
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