Delta Episode Discussion

[the1stpkmnfan]

I just finished the Delta Episode in OmegaRuby today. Good golly, this was an excellent edition to the Hoenn remakes. Of course, I wouldn't consider this just a remake, but also a retelling; content that wasn't able to be presented in RSE. Props to you, GameFreak!

Zinnia was definitely an interesting character, and it surprised me that she was responsible for

Spoiler: DE

wanting to bring Primal Groudon/Kyogre from their slumber. It's like a mystery we never considered, even from the original RSE. Could she have been in those games, albeit in the background? Mind blowing.

Oh yeah, getting to fight Wallace at the Sky Pillar entrance was also a treat for me. It was like battling him if he were the Champion from Emerald. I believe his Emerald team was present during this battle in ORAS. Very nice on GF's part. A little bit of Emerald here and there.

The origin story of Rayquaza and Mega Evolution was insightful to listen to. Learning about it while climbing Sky Pillar was a phenomenal presentation. The music playing in the background was majestic, holy crap. So good.

The hints of AZ also caught my attention. Man, I really wanna know more about that guy. He's got my curiosity peaked.

Catching Rayquaza and Deoxys weren't too hard to capture. It took a few balls, sure, but I had no trouble the first time. I even caught Rayquaza with a critical capture. That's some surprising luck on my part.

I also like how Team Magma got more attention in ORAS than they did in RSE. Seems like they were easier to sympathize with in the story.

It's interesting to note how Brendan/May and his/her family comes from the Johto region. It's like an exact, but indirect, follow up to the Johto region games.


Overall, I give the Delta Episode about 8.9/10; strong lore, albeit a short story.

They really did leave the story/game open ended. I'm dying to see if they'll continue the plot of Mega Evolution in the next Pokemon game. Perhaps we could see Zinnia again. Or Steven, even.

Heck, I'm stoked for anything up to this point.

 

[Ulicies]

Delta episode was awesome. I really enjoyed the storyline, and it still posed some nice philosophical questions, like repeating history, and if we're truly willing to compromise our morals in the face of an extreme circumstance.

Personally, I find Zinnia fascinating. The only two aspects of her character that I felt were a bit overwrought was the way should would elongate some words, and the way she appeared before throwing her PokeBall in a battle. They were obviously demonstrating her emotional or mental instability, caused by obsessing over the Meteorite all her life. My guess is that because Game Freak is garnering the Pokemon series mainly to children, some more subtle or mature concepts must be conveyed clearly, or even overdone to lessen the severity of said concept. Because I believe that, I don't really hold those negatives against Zinnia specifically, but rather label Pokemon's younger tone at fault.

Anyway, playing through it was a blast. Personally, I didn't mind flying about from town to town, mainly because I'm super psyched to be FINALLY flying on any Pokemon, much less the Eon duo (a couple of my favorite Pokemon). Not only that, but going around the entire region, solving problems here and there, made me feel like a true Champion, unlike the normal story mechanic of being at the right place at the right time. Hopefully in a future game, they'll connect together the three closely-knit regions Hoenn, Johto, and Kanto (and the Seven Islands) into one big world map, so that you can Soar across the sea between multiple regions.

Catching Rayquaza was of course relatively easy, and for me personally, Deoxys wasn't that bad either. He constantly used Cosmic Power, which made him easier to get down to the red zone. Plus, Hyper Beam's and Superpower's secondary effects both made the battle substantially easier. The only annoyance was when he used Recover, but luckily, I scored a critical capture before too long.

Overall, Delta Episode is a phenomenal addition to the Pokemon series, and hopefully will set a precent for more quality story lines in the future. When Mega evolution was first revealed, I was worried it would be artificially shoehorned into story lines, but ORAS and XY have proven that Mega evolution is a fascinating mystery, and I can't wait to see this story arc unraveled in the future.

 

[Mate397]

Hi
I was hoping I could get some help, my Omega Ruby is acting strange, after I finished the main game and the cutscene for Episode Delta ended I can't seem to continue it as if I never had it to begin with, once I left my house I took a small detour to Sea Mauville to try and get Ho-oh. After that I'm unable to continue Episode Delta, I even checked playthroughs in-case I1m looking at the wrong place, but the events/encounters that should happen on said locations are not there for me.. Any idea?
Thanks.

 

[Chibi_Muffin]

Did you go to May/Brendan's house? :/

While I'm here, I'll just post my thoughts on the Delta Episode.

Spoiler: Just in case

I have... mixed opinions on Zinnia as a character, to say the least. I can understand stealing Key Stones as a last resort, but before that she got Magma/Aqua to awaken whichever Primal, so she shares responsibility for that. But unlike them, she knew how dangerous the Legendaries were and doesn't feel remorse for it. She is kind of condescending to everyone but you (which made her niceness towards me seem kinda fake), but never really bothers to explain her solution to the problem, instead being needlessly cryptic (especially since the world is ending). They never really explain the deal with Aster properly nor who Zinnia was 'meant to be', so that didn't really get me to sympathise with her either. If Zinnia's backstory was better explained and someone called her out for her horribly reckless actions, I might like her more. As it is, she just seems like a frustrating character. Which is a shame, considering how I really liked how all of the older characters were portrayed in this game.

Speaking of which... Matt/Courtney's actions here just seem weird. Why are they going all Cyrus on us? Your leader's not dead or completely not himself anymore, there's no real reason to take revenge (revenge that will end up killing him as well, at that). Blowing up the world also has nothing to do with making it a better place for people/Pokemon, so it's not stubbornness either. It just feels like they wanted the villainous teams to continue being bad guys even after they were meant to have reformed.

That being said, the backstory for the Legendaries was pretty cool, though. Nice mix of getting the R/S and the E stuff in there. Rayquaza seems to be in competition with Arceus for the position of Pokemon God. Blowing up a meteor manages to be both super duper cheesy and also awesome. Also, Deoxys! Granted, I already had one, but at least I can nickname this one! Also, they're both Timid for some reason. @_@

For more on the positive side... it was nice seeing more of the Hoenn cast, they are way cool and are probably now my favourite bunch of humans in any Pokemon game. The end credits were also simultaneously hilarious and adorable.

 

[bobandbill]

I agree with your thoughts there, Chibi_Muffin. I also have mixed feelings on Zinnia. On the one hand, given what she knows and the weight of that, and the fact that she does seem somewhat out of it (and understandably so), her actions are also understandable. But I still can't help but dislike the way she goes about it, to the point of destroying a method of saving the ORAS world. Nor was her condescending lecturing of everyone else really warranted. How were they to know about a multiverse being an actual thing (supposedly)?

Matt's actions were somewhat left field for me as well, but I did like the rest of the Team Aqua appearances. And overall I did appreciate the story and lore added in, along with the references. And hey, riding into space on a dragon to fight an alien Pokemon monster is pretty cool. (And that Deoxys battle theme remix ~)

Probably my biggest gripe was the forced shipping by the game's (and particularly by the protagonist's parents') shipping of me with my rival. I didn't like the rival in RSE, my opinion hasn't really improved on them in ORAS, so this was just plain annoying. Oh well. Zinnia gained points for robbing them, I suppose!

 

[Krishnath]

Personally, I fully understand *why* Zinnia wanted to awaken Kyogre/Groudon. Basically, it was an attempt to summon Rayquaza so that she could use Ray-ray to take care of the Meteor as it had done once in the past. She was obviously aware of the Meteor long before the Scientists in Mossdeep. The Key is the legend she tells you as you ascend the tower. She knew that Ray-ray would come and calm the primal down as it had done in the past, thus allowing her, as the lore keeper, to talk to Ray-ray and tell it about the meteor so that the dragon could stop it, and she felt that a few thousand dead would have been a fair price to pay compared to the alternative, which would have been an Extinction Level Event on par with the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs. Basically a few thousand lives are less important than preventing the extinction of 90% of all life, or at least the complete and utter annihilation of Hoenn and nearby areas.
Of course, then you went and stopped Groudon/Kyogre before Rayquaza noticed, which is what lead her to her desperation move of stealing the keystones. At the same time she realized that due to her involvement with awakening the Primal Beast, she was no longer worthy of being the one who helped rayquaza with the meteor/asteroid directly, which is why she, in her own way, encouraged you each step of the way during the Delta Episode.
Basically, she was trying to uphold her duty as the lore keeper of the Draconids, and when she realized she was no longer worthy of said title, she passed it on to you.

 

[casskingdra]

Spoiler: Delta Episode

At this point it feels like Game Freak left the end of the Delta Episode really ambiguous. Zinnia's back story could do with some more development - it's developed to an extent, but we don't learn much outside of her role of Draconid Lorekeeper. What happens to her after the Delta Episode finishes? How did she meet Aster? Why didn't she try awaken both Primals and have them fight (seeing as that is the better way to attract Rayquaza's attention...)?

I do like her character though. Holding out for an installment that links AZ's story and Aster & Zinnia's stories. I really hope those references to him 3,000 years ago were hinting at a connection between the two stories.

 

[Krishnath]

Spoiler: Delta Episode

At this point it feels like Game Freak left the end of the Delta Episode really ambiguous. Zinnia's back story could do with some more development - it's developed to an extent, but we don't learn much outside of her role of Draconid Lorekeeper. What happens to her after the Delta Episode finishes? How did she meet Aster? Why didn't she try awaken both Primals and have them fight (seeing as that is the better way to attract Rayquaza's attention...)?

I do like her character though. Holding out for an installment that links AZ's story and Aster & Zinnia's stories. I really hope those references to him 3,000 years ago were hinting at a connection between the two stories.

Spoiler: Zinnia Theory

Aster is apparently a replacement goldfish for a lost sibling, who died some time before the story started. It is theorized that the previous Aster died during an earlier attempt to summon Rayquaza. (From what I've been told the names Aster and Zinnia are related in Japanese). The theory states that the original Aster was the previous Lorekeeper, and Zinnia got shoved into the role when her sister (possibly twin) lost her life in said attempt. Zinnia's behavior, willingness to sacrifice herself (and thousands of others) to summon Ray-ray, not to mention her sprite, seems to indicate that she has suffered some sort of mental break leaving her more than a little unhinged and possibly suffering from some form of PTSD.

 

[casskingdra]

Spoiler: Zinnia Theory

Aster is apparently a replacement goldfish for a lost sibling, who died some time before the story started. It is theorized that the previous Aster died during an earlier attempt to summon Rayquaza. (From what I've been told the names Aster and Zinnia are related in Japanese). The theory states that the original Aster was the previous Lorekeeper, and Zinnia got shoved into the role when her sister (possibly twin) lost her life in said attempt. Zinnia's behavior, willingness to sacrifice herself (and thousands of others) to summon Ray-ray, not to mention her sprite, seems to indicate that she has suffered some sort of mental break leaving her more than a little unhinged and possibly suffering from some form of PTSD.

Spoiler: Zinnia Theory

...I like that theory. Something in Zinnia's dialogue, I forget what exactly, screamed out to me that Aster was the name of someone who died. This makes a lot of sense. It'd also show why she seems eager (perhaps not the best word, but it's the only one springing to mind) to shift the role to the Player when you're on top of Sky Pillar. She never wanted the responsibility in the first place?

 

[Grei]

My personal gripe with Delta Episode is that this new ancient 3000-year-old lore is just being shoved in. In my opinion, the Pokemon world was just fine with the "war" crap and ancienty lore being confined to fan headcanon.

 

[Krishnath]

Spoiler: Zinnia Theory

...I like that theory. Something in Zinnia's dialogue, I forget what exactly, screamed out to me that Aster was the name of someone who died. This makes a lot of sense. It'd also show why she seems eager (perhaps not the best word, but it's the only one springing to mind) to shift the role to the Player when you're on top of Sky Pillar. She never wanted the responsibility in the first place?

Spoiler: Zinnia Theory

I always got the vibe that it was more a case of not being worthy. That is why she was so willing to die to summon Rayquaza on the top of the Sky Pillar, except Ray-ray didn't accept her sacrifice. She also realized that while she was not worthy of being the Lorekeeper, she realized that the Player was, particularly when the PC easily (kinda) stopped the Primal beast. This was also why she effectively guided you around Hoenn to where you needed to be during the Delta Episode, and the reason for the History lesson as you climbed the Tower. She was setting you up to be the new Lorekeeper because she neither had the capability nor mental faculties to be it herself.

My personal gripe with Delta Episode is that this new ancient 3000-year-old lore is just being shoved in. In my opinion, the Pokemon world was just fine with the "war" crap and ancienty lore being confined to fan headcanon.

Except they explain the inconsistencies quite handily during the Delta episode.

Spoiler: Explanation

Basically, each game is a separate universe.

 

[casskingdra]

Spoiler: Zinnia Theory

I always got the vibe that it was more a case of not being worthy. That is why she was so willing to die to summon Rayquaza on the top of the Sky Pillar, except Ray-ray didn't accept her sacrifice. She also realized that while she was not worthy of being the Lorekeeper, she realized that the Player was, particularly when the PC easily (kinda) stopped the Primal beast. This was also why she effectively guided you around Hoenn to where you needed to be during the Delta Episode, and the reason for the History lesson as you climbed the Tower. She was setting you up to be the new Lorekeeper because she neither had the capability nor mental faculties to be it herself.

True. When I woke up this morning I wasn't expecting to get so upset about Zinnia. I hope she makes a reappearance down the line. I adore her character.

 

[Krishnath]

True. When I woke up this morning I wasn't expecting to get so upset about Zinnia. I hope she makes a reappearance down the line. I adore her character.

Considering her disappearing act at the end of the Delta Episode, I'd be surprised if she didn't show up in the future, either in a continuation of the Hoenn storyline, or the Kalos storyline. Considering the success of B/W and B2/W2, and the overall popularity of the franchise (which is apparently at an all time high), I think such a sequel would be inevitable before Gen7.

 

[Excitable Boy]

and the overall popularity of the franchise (which is apparently at an all time high)

[img139]http://www.wtfgamersonly.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/07-16-Review-Pokemon-RB-01.jpg[/img139]

it's been getting lower ever since

 

[Krishnath]

[img139]http://www.wtfgamersonly.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/07-16-Review-Pokemon-RB-01.jpg[/img139]

it's been getting lower ever since

Considering that more people are playing the current generation of games than Gen1 that is blatantly false.

 

[BurningWhiteKyurem]

Considering that more people are playing the current generation of games than Gen1 that is blatantly false.

These numbers you mention in regards to Gen VI is based on what?

 

[Excitable Boy]

in what universe is 12 million greater than 30 million

jesus, I feel old now that I know that people underestimate the might of Pokemania at its prime

 

[BurningWhiteKyurem]

in what universe is 12 million greater than 30 million

jesus, I feel old now that I know that people underestimate the might of Pokemania at its prime

I'm pretty sure it's because the sales of ORAS and XY were jumbled up together to make the point that Gen VI popularity > Gen I. Even then, if you combine all of Gen I's sales, that's more than 40 million players, easily more than Gen VI's 20+ million.

 

[Krishnath]

Funny, all info I have been able to find about Gen 1 says the sales were in 20 million range for the GB system. Gen 6, is currently at the same shortly after ORAS (ORAS sold 3 million copies in the first couple of weeks) was released. So there is no real difference there. Considering I said Franchise and *not* Game. Then yes, the franchise is indeed more popular today, as its current merchandising out performs previous years. If you only count the games themselves, thus not counting ORAS and X/Y together, then yes, Gen 1 did outperform the Gen6 games. But then again, the Gen 1 games required you to get three different games to access all pokemon in a region, while modern incarnations only require two, or even one due to the advent of the Global Link allowing trades with people all over the world, which slightly reduces the demand for the games.

If you count each individual game of a generation separately, then the modern games are equal to Gen 1 (or will be in about a year when ORAS has been out for a while). But the Franchise as a whole is more popular today than when it started.

 

[Excitable Boy]

Funny, all info I have been able to find about Gen 1 says the sales were in 20 million range for the GB system. Gen 6, is currently at the same shortly after ORAS (ORAS sold 3 million copies in the first couple of weeks) was released. So there is no real difference there. Considering I said Franchise and *not* Game.

if you're going by every game, are you counting all of Red, Green, Blue, and Yellow, and in every region

even if you want to use 20 million (for whatever reason), Gen VI is still five million short

But then again, the Gen 1 games required you to get three different games to access all pokemon in a region, while modern incarnations only require two, or even one due to the advent of the Global Link allowing trades with people all over the world, which slightly reduces the demand for the games.

lol no it didn't

everything was available between RG or RB, you're just making sh*t up

If you count each individual game of a generation separately, then the modern games are equal to Gen 1 (or will be in about a year when ORAS has been out for a while).

do you seriously believe ORAS will get more substantial sales than it has now, considering how badly XY's trailed off and how poorly remakes tend to do in comparison to the start of generations overall