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Delta Episode Discussion

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Krishnath

Dragon Lord
do you seriously believe ORAS will get more substantial sales than it has now, considering how badly XY's trailed off and how poorly remakes tend to do in comparison to the start of generations overall
Never underestimate the power of Nostalgia. That said, as I mentioned, the Franchise as a whole, which is what I mentioned in my original post, is more profitable than every previous year. The individual popularity of the games themselves does not change this.

But we really should try to get this thread back on topic rather than argue and discuss semantics that ultimately are irrelevant.
 

Excitable Boy

is a metaphor
That said, as I mentioned, the Franchise as a whole, which is what I mentioned in my original post, is more profitable than every previous year. The individual popularity of the games themselves does not change this.
what sorcery did you employ to come to this conclusion

is this a failure to account for inflation or what
 

Trainer Yusuf

VolcaniNO
Except they explain the inconsistencies quite handily during the Delta episode.
Basically, each game is a separate universe.
Ah, the Superboy Prime gambit.

Personally, I go with elastic timeline/crisis theory, that is; each remake is a crisis retcon, whereas each main game moves the timeline to its prime timeline, with OR/AS essentially being the equivalent of Flashpoint, and Gen VII being implied to become the equivalent of DCnu.
 
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Krishnath

Dragon Lord
Ah, the Superboy Prime gambit.

Personally, I go with elastic timeline/crisis theory, that is; each remake is a crisis retcon, whereas each main game moves the timeline to its prime timeline, with OR/AS essentially being the equivalent of Flaspoint, and Gen VII being implied to become the equivalent of DCnu.
Please, like the Superboy Prime gambit was in any way original. Star Trek did it in the 60's. :p

But yeah, the official explanation is alternate universes.
 

MetalKing1417

Legend Seeker
[img139]http://www.wtfgamersonly.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/07-16-Review-Pokemon-RB-01.jpg[/img139]

it's been getting lower ever since
Genwunner alert.
 

BurningWhiteKyurem

Well-Known Member
Funny, all info I have been able to find about Gen 1 says the sales were in 20 million range for the GB system. Gen 6, is currently at the same shortly after ORAS (ORAS sold 3 million copies in the first couple of weeks) was released. So there is no real difference there. Considering I said Franchise and *not* Game. Then yes, the franchise is indeed more popular today, as its current merchandising out performs previous years. If you only count the games themselves, thus not counting ORAS and X/Y together, then yes, Gen 1 did outperform the Gen6 games. But then again, the Gen 1 games required you to get three different games to access all pokemon in a region, while modern incarnations only require two, or even one due to the advent of the Global Link allowing trades with people all over the world, which slightly reduces the demand for the games.
Information has worldwide sales of all Gen I games at 30 million. 20 million only accounts for Red and Blue (or Green if in Japan). Not to mention, Yellow is separated from RGB for whatever reason. If you want to base popularity on merchandising: consider that most Pokemon merchandise in North America nowadays are sold in the form of toys, plushies, DVDs, and cards (in Japan, that sample is expanded into almost stuff like housewares, domestics, cutlery and so on). Whereas, when Gen I began, you had merchandise in the form of food, bedding (domestics), housewares, cards, clothing, and so on. The demand for these things back then far outweighed what we have now (most demand is on games and cards anyway). I'd reckon that if TPCi revealed its profitability from the 90s and had that number adjusted for inflation, that number would far supersede the amount they're making now.

Also, in what world did Gen I require three games to get all the Pokemon? If you had read your sources carefully instead of jumping to conclusions based on the number of games, you'd realize that RG and RB were designed to have exclusives so that the other could trade for them. Ergo, you only need two games. Blue in Japan was mostly a patched version of the game (which formed the basis of RB in NA and the rest of the world), and Yellow was the anime version because of how much hype the show had.

If you count each individual game of a generation separately, then the modern games are equal to Gen 1 (or will be in about a year when ORAS has been out for a while). But the Franchise as a whole is more popular today than when it started.
It makes no sense to compare individual games of a generation separately. Mainly when disparities take effect such as one game being more popular than another...how are you supposed to compare that? And as I've stated, if you take demand into account, then the franchise isn't exactly as popular as when it started. It's decent, but nowhere near Gen I's level.
 

Wulava

Chuffed to bits
Staff member
Moderator
Get back on topic, people.
This thread is for discussing the "Delta Episode", not a Pokemon sales and marketing meeting.
 

HM02gon

Waiting...
Thank you, now I have a question relevant to the Delta Episode- Is there anyone besides myself who frankly did not like Zinnia? I mean she was cool and had by far one of the best themes ever made but her personality... It was just irritating how arrogant she was. She basically denies that your character has any skills or knowledge, then drags you behind her to the sky pillar only to find out she isn't all so great as she thought she was. Not to mention dissing Steven and Hoenn's top scientists in the process.
 

Ulicies

Mild Monk
Thank you, now I have a question relevant to the Delta Episode- Is there anyone besides myself who frankly did not like Zinnia? I mean she was cool and had by far one of the best themes ever made but her personality... It was just irritating how arrogant she was. She basically denies that your character has any skills or knowledge, then drags you behind her to the sky pillar only to find out she isn't all so great as she thought she was. Not to mention dissing Steven and Hoenn's top scientists in the process.
Well, she was condemning the scientists and Steven for attempting to repeat the same mistake committed 3,000 years ago. I agree that aspects of her character were overwrought, like elongating words unnecessarily, being overly sassy, not to mention that crazy dance and facial expression… But just in my opinion, I believe GF did that on purpose in order to convey her possible PTSD or mental instability clearly to children who might not pick up on more subtle cues, since, after all, this franchise is first and foremost geared toward children. From that perspective, I just chalk it up as more GF's fault for Zinnia's annoying qualities, rather than blaming Zinnia herself as a character.
 
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Pokemon Power

Well-Known Member
Just finished it!! You know, seeing the legend of Mega Rayquaza made me wonder. Was Rayquaza there when AZ shot the ultimate weapon in Kalos?
 

Psynergy

Strong Winds
Staff member
Super Mod
I actually liked how Zinnia's personality was presented. Given the weight she had on her shoulders, I feel like her forward attitude was also a way of putting on a brave face. She grew up with the knowledge that she would have to help save the world from that meteoroid and that's probably a ton of pressure to grow up with (and likely affected her mentally), so she had to be confident in every way possible to deal with that pressure. That, and it's new seeing someone who isn't a villain talking down to the [Former] Champion, which is surprisingly refreshing when Champions normally get nothing but praise just for being Champion.

Obviously her confidence fell slightly short when Rayquaza finally did appear and she couldn't get it to Mega Evolve, but that's where you come in.
 

Ulicies

Mild Monk
Just finished it!! You know, seeing the legend of Mega Rayquaza made me wonder. Was Rayquaza there when AZ shot the ultimate weapon in Kalos?
I wonder that as well. Since Rayquaza can fly into space, presumably he would have the capability to travel long distances with ease. On the other hand, Rayquaza might just stay in the Hoenn region to keep an eye on the Primals… Like others have said, it's highly possible that each region's world-ending catastrophes is contained within its own universe. However, Delta Episode proved that the Kalos storyline did happen within Hoenn's timeline, so having specific dimensions/universes doesn't necessarily mean that each game's storyline is contained within its own universe.

It seems to me that each region's batch of legendaries are only aware of their own local problems. It's not like every single legendary Pokemon can somehow know what's happening on the other side of the world. That said, the supposed god Pokemon Arceus, and perhaps Rayquaza to a certain extent, have less of an excuse.
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
Just finished it!! You know, seeing the legend of Mega Rayquaza made me wonder. Was Rayquaza there when AZ shot the ultimate weapon in Kalos?
What difference does it make if Rayquaza was? Its Mega Evolution isn't tied to the Ultimate Weapon.

It seems to me that each region's batch of legendaries are only aware of their own local problems. It's not like every single legendary Pokemon can somehow know what's happening on the other side of the world. That said, the supposed god Pokemon Arceus, and perhaps Rayquaza to a certain extent, have less of an excuse.
Arceus isn't a God Pokemon Arceus didn't lift a finger when Sinnoh was in danger, so it's hardly surprising that it wouldn't go out of its way to solve Hoenn's problems.
 

Pokemon Power

Well-Known Member
Yeah, about the dimensions. I'm just splitting it into eight dimensions for now. One where Red and Gold happened. One where Blue and Silver happened. One where Ruby, FireRed, Pearl, HeartGold, and White 1 and 2 happened. One where Sapphire, LeafGreen, Diamond, SoulSilver, and Black 1 and 2 happened. One where Yellow, Crystal, Emerald and Platinum happened followed by Black 1 and 2. One similar to the last one only with White 1 and 2 happening. One where X and AlphaSapphire happened. And finally, one where Y and OmegaRuby happened.
 

mew 2000

Shiny Celebi
Information has worldwide sales of all Gen I games at 30 million. 20 million only accounts for Red and Blue (or Green if in Japan). Not to mention, Yellow is separated from RGB for whatever reason. If you want to base popularity on merchandising: consider that most Pokemon merchandise in North America nowadays are sold in the form of toys, plushies, DVDs, and cards (in Japan, that sample is expanded into almost stuff like housewares, domestics, cutlery and so on). Whereas, when Gen I began, you had merchandise in the form of food, bedding (domestics), housewares, cards, clothing, and so on. The demand for these things back then far outweighed what we have now (most demand is on games and cards anyway). I'd reckon that if TPCi revealed its profitability from the 90s and had that number adjusted for inflation, that number would far supersede the amount they're making now.

Also, in what world did Gen I require three games to get all the Pokemon? If you had read your sources carefully instead of jumping to conclusions based on the number of games, you'd realize that RG and RB were designed to have exclusives so that the other could trade for them. Ergo, you only need two games. Blue in Japan was mostly a patched version of the game (which formed the basis of RB in NA and the rest of the world), and Yellow was the anime version because of how much hype the show had.



It makes no sense to compare individual games of a generation separately. Mainly when disparities take effect such as one game being more popular than another...how are you supposed to compare that? And as I've stated, if you take demand into account, then the franchise isn't exactly as popular as when it started. It's decent, but nowhere near Gen I's level.
I agree with walvula about getting back on topic, but I think that guy meant by needing three you needed 3 to get all the starters as it was unlikely your friend was going to trade you his venusuar for your diglett and if you did manage to do that what about bulbasuar and ivysuar breeding didn't exist. You ether had to reset your game 3 times sending the starter to a friend or you had a friend do that for you, or you bought 3 games.

sorry about the off topicness post
 

Endolise

TengenToppaBoogaloo
Was Rayquaza there when AZ shot the ultimate weapon in Kalos?
As Akashin said, even if it was, it clearly didn't do anything about it, which makes sense as the actual beam only took a moment to ascend and then descend. However, the likelihood of it being in that specific area, which is explicitly far away from the domain that it usually protects, at that specific moment, seems incredibly small.

Like others have said, it's highly possible that each region's world-ending catastrophes is contained within its own universe.
There really isn't any reason to believe so, especially since later games often refer back to those events. Off the top of my head, I can recall a Plasma grunt in BW talking about the schemes of Teams Rocket and Galactic, as well as the former Teams Aqua and Magma grunts in B2W2 talking about their past goals. And then there's the foreign Team Rocket grunt from HGSS appearing in BW.

That said, the supposed god Pokemon Arceus, and perhaps Rayquaza to a certain extent, have less of an excuse.
Arceus is a divine nap-taker that hardly anyone knows about, and even most of those that do don't even know it's name.

Rayquaza has only ever concerned itself with the safety of the Hoennese people, and even then, it has always been drawn in by something else. Either a conflict between the Primal Reversions throwing the local weather out of balance prompted it to appear and deal with it (and that doesn't necessarily have to be for the sake of humans; Rayquaza certainly wouldn't want its world to be destroyed either), an incoming meteor has attracted it (and in a manner similar to how the Rayquaza in Destiny Deoxys only attacked Deoxys because the meteor that it came in on plowed through its territory and seemed to be a threat, Rayquaza may still have just been looking out for itself/its territory), or it has been deliberately compelled to appear by a Draconid Lorekeeper.

Yeah, about the dimensions. I'm just splitting it into eight dimensions for now. One where Red and Gold happened. One where Blue and Silver happened. One where Ruby, FireRed, Pearl, HeartGold, and White 1 and 2 happened. One where Sapphire, LeafGreen, Diamond, SoulSilver, and Black 1 and 2 happened. One where Yellow, Crystal, Emerald and Platinum happened followed by Black 1 and 2. One similar to the last one only with White 1 and 2 happening. One where X and AlphaSapphire happened. And finally, one where Y and OmegaRuby happened.
I'm being pedantic here, but actually, Diamond and Pearl are incompatible with any universe in which Black and White take place, as are Ruby in Sapphire with any universe that contains Black 2 and White 2. In BW, Cynthia referred back to seeing a "Trainer who faced Giratina," which only happened in Platinum. Likewise, B2W2 contain a reference to Mirage Tower, and also feature a former Team Magma grunt and a former Team Aqua grunt who have become a couple, and they both refer to their past attempts to alter the environment (and it was only in Emerald that both Teams were antagonistic and aimed to alter the ecosystem; in RS, the opposite Team existed solely for the purpose of undermining the villainous Team). So, in order to be totally consistent, then the multiverse would have to look like this:

R/G/B(/Y) > G/S/C

FR/LG and R/S > HG/SS and D/P

FR/LG and Emerald > HG/SS and Platinum > BW > B2W2 (As once the Black and White pairs are added, the Hoenn and Sinnoh adventures have to be the ones seen in Emerald and Platinum, respectively.)

OR/AS > X/Y

... and then you would split those up however you see fit.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
To say you hate something as good as the Delta Episode because of a throwaway line that people continue to take WAY too seriously is trying to rationalizing what is already questionable.

What you linked to further proves that point - to start crying about Game Freak not being terribly worried about their own tissue-thin attempts at chronology and continuity, or at least putting them a distant second behind gameplay (where they belong), is baying at the moon aimlessly.

I hope we can recover from this as a society and move on to not caring about things that don't matter. Like this.
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
To say you hate something as good as the Delta Episode because of a throwaway line that people continue to take WAY too seriously is trying to rationalizing what is already questionable.

What you linked to further proves that point - to start crying about Game Freak not being terribly worried about their own tissue-thin attempts at chronology and continuity, or at least putting them a distant second behind gameplay (where they belong), is baying at the moon aimlessly.

I hope we can recover from this as a society and move on to not caring about things that don't matter. Like this.
You seriously need to learn how to accept other people's opinion. What you call a throwaway line isn't a throwaway line to me because it had a huge impact in the timeline. It was a line said by one of the most relevant characters in one of the most relevant quests of the game. So forgive me if i do not consider this a throwaway line. Anyway, it wasn't the only reason why i hated the delta episode, i also hated the dialogue, the characters and the whole mega universe idea, but i'm not even going to waste my time saying why i disliked because i know you're not here to hear other's people opinion and see their point of view, but only to bash them for thinking something different from you.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
Explaining the ways in which you're overreacting isn't a crime. My point is and continues to be that it's beyond silly to get worked up over something this small - yes, small - much less to claim "I hate [entire segment of the game]!" in part or in whole because of it and then link someone else's severe overreaction as if it somehow justifies things. Particularly as they've been lightly tapping on this "concept", such as it is, that games you haven't played are "alternate universes" since Black and White, and the only reason people are getting worked up about it now is because it was placed in a more visible location

but only to bash them for thinking something different from you.
And that's how we can be sure you're not taking anything remotely logical away from what I'm saying.
 
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