Delta Episode Discussion

[Xuxuba]

The blog states as follows:

"In XY Sycamore claimed Mega Evo never happened outside Kalos so far. "

However, Sycamore does not say that. Sycamore says something else which is much more vague and can be interpreted to mean that, but can also be read in other ways.

Hence, it is only an error if you look at it a certain way, and the blog's complaint that ORAS contradicts XY by showing Mega Evolutions outside of Kalos is invalid, because it was never concretely stated that there weren't. If one chooses to interpret it to mean that there weren't, then that is the interpreter's problem, because they are the one who is insisting that a problem that needn't exist, must exist. No one is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to read that line so literally.
You think it's invalid be
Also, calling particular attention to this:



So, you know what "my problem" is, huh? Odd that the interpretation that you say is mine is not one that I have expressed in this particular thread thus far. Not sure why you feel the need to be so personal, but alright.

It's not a logical error. She/he never said that text was open to interpretations, so there's no contradictions in her/his argument. I, on the other hand, said that text could mean two things, but one of them is so out of context that you could even ignore it. You might even think the text is super vague, but we don't. End of story.

I'm being personal because i'm posting personal opinions, just like everybody else here.

And then followed it up by saying:


These are irrelevant semantics (though vilifying ORAS for something that FRLG did a decade ago is weird regardless) in the scheme of things, however, and Endolise is doing a bang up job of arguing the parts of the blog entry that actually matter. So I'll leave it at that.

You forgot to highlight this part:

after years of maintaining a logical timeline.

It doesn't mean there wasn't "new type incosistences" before, it means that they maintained a logical timeline for years (not necessarily before or after FR/LF did whatever you think it did). Even if that blog said exactly that there was no "new type incosistences" before, i do not agree with it, so idk why are we even talking about this or why are you calling someone weird just because they don't agree with you about something that you called a irrelevant matter of semantics.

 

[JohnMango95]

Honesty, I'm sort of surprised by the communities sudden criticism of the game based on continuity. I don't think continuity has ever been a major part of pokemon. Many events in just about every game have things that don't make sense. Really though, I don't think that's why we play pokemon in the first place. As far as the writing goes, I actually prefer the writing in the delta episode in comparison to the writing for X/Y's backstory. The only thing I didnt like about OrAs was how the writers kept forcing the connection to the Kalos region.

 

[girazard]

Even if Prof Sycamore did say unambiguously that Mega-evos only existed in Kalos, it's not a contradiction if they appear in Hoenn because he could simply be wrong. Nothing universe-tearing about that.

 

[Hydrohs]

Honesty, I'm sort of surprised by the communities sudden criticism of the game based on continuity. I don't think continuity has ever been a major part of pokemon. Many events in just about every game have things that don't make sense. Really though, I don't think that's why we play pokemon in the first place. As far as the writing goes, I actually prefer the writing in the delta episode in comparison to the writing for X/Y's backstory. The only thing I didnt like about OrAs was how the writers kept forcing the connection to the Kalos region.

You'd be surprised by how many people actually care for some reason.

 

[Wulava]

Assuming the next Kalos title is a "third version", they can simply correct the inconsistencies and connect the lore in ORAS with XY.
Besides, aren't third versions considered the main canon, and the paired titles are ignored?

Anyway, if we get sequels instead, I agree with the post above and Sycamore can simply admit that he was wrong.
It's nothing too major that some people make it seem to be.

 

[MerCurry]

I'm just surprised that some don't think that Researchers can't be wrong sometimes.

They're "theories" for a reason, peeps.

 

[Bguy7]

Spoiler: Zinnia Theory

Aster is apparently a replacement goldfish for a lost sibling, who died some time before the story started. It is theorized that the previous Aster died during an earlier attempt to summon Rayquaza. (From what I've been told the names Aster and Zinnia are related in Japanese). The theory states that the original Aster was the previous Lorekeeper, and Zinnia got shoved into the role when her sister (possibly twin) lost her life in said attempt. Zinnia's behavior, willingness to sacrifice herself (and thousands of others) to summon Ray-ray, not to mention her sprite, seems to indicate that she has suffered some sort of mental break leaving her more than a little unhinged and possibly suffering from some form of PTSD.

From what I got in the Delta Episode, the original Aster was Zinnia's daughter. She called Aster (the Whismer) her "little girl," and talked to it as if it were her own child. Am I wrong?

 

[Taodragon]

From what I got in the Delta Episode, the original Aster was Zinnia's daughter. She called Aster (the Whismer) her "little girl," and talked to it as if it were her own child. Am I wrong?

Spoiler: Zinnia

No, she does refer to the Whismer as her little girl. The only thing is that she seems rather young, and one of the Team grunts implies that she's a teenager, so I don't think it'd be her daughter. I think the reason why the Whismer is referred to her daughter is more as an affectionate gesture to the Pokémon rather then Aster, but I could be wrong on that.

 

[Ulicies]

I thought it was interesting that Whismur was surprised when Zinnia opened up about her past. That tells me Zinnia never talked to her Whismur about her sibling/daughter/whatever, and yet told the main character this not long after meeting us.

 

[TheDragonKing]

I thought it was interesting that Whismur was surprised when Zinnia opened up about her past. That tells me Zinnia never talked to her Whismur about her sibling/daughter/whatever, and yet told the main character this not long after meeting us.

Well Whismur is a Pokemon. You don't tell your pet dog all about your deceased aunt Betty, do you?

 

[Ulicies]

Well Whismur is a Pokemon. You don't tell your pet dog all about your deceased aunt Betty, do you?

Ash whines to his Pikachu about everything, and my own mother talks to her dog like she's a person. So I don't know, maybe?

 

[Krishnath]

From what I got in the Delta Episode, the original Aster was Zinnia's daughter. She called Aster (the Whismer) her "little girl," and talked to it as if it were her own child. Am I wrong?

It is far from unusual for people to name children or pets after deceased loved ones.

 

[Autobot N]

Not to mention that we know XY takes place in the same time period as BW/BW2 (or their AU versions) and we see in ORAS that the Royal Unova is still being built by the model in the Oceanic Museum.



How? We see Mr. Bonding in XY...we seen how he came to be in ORAS...clearly ORAS must happen before XY.

Maybe it was his mom?

 

[Krishnath]

Maybe it was his mom?

Considering we see his actual *creation*, then, no, no it wasn't. In fact, doing the quest that leads to his creation is the only way to get the Hatching O-Power.

 

[Autobot N]

Considering we see his actual *creation*, then, no, no it wasn't. In fact, doing the quest that leads to his creation is the only way to get the Hatching O-Power.

Well, maybe it is another Mr. Bonding. Personally, I think ORAS comes after XY. I mean, Mega Evolution seems like it was just being unearthed in XY, but in ORAS, it is (for the most part) common knowledge. There was even this random surfing trainer that after I beat him said, "Mega Evolution, huh?" (even though I didn't even use a Mega).

And anyway, I said it might be his mom as a joke. I'm surprised it wasn't taken as one.

 

[Krishnath]

Well, maybe it is another Mr. Bonding. Personally, I think ORAS comes after XY. I mean, Mega Evolution seems like it was just being unearthed in XY, but in ORAS, it is (for the most part) common knowledge. There was even this random surfing trainer that after I beat him said, "Mega Evolution, huh?" (even though I didn't even use a Mega).

Except that Dr. Birch says that he is going to share the information he has gathered about mega evolution with a colleague on another continent, in a way that makes it sound like it is an entirely new discovery. This coupled with the creation of Mr. Bonding, and other hints throughout the Main Game and the Delta Episode (Including a couple of references to the Kalos War and to AZ himself during his wandering days) points towards ORAS is a prequel of sorts to XY. Because if AZ is wandering, then XY hasn't happened yet.
Of course, the Draconid people have known about Mega-Evolution for at least 3000 years, probably more. They where pretty clear about that in the Delta Episode.

Also, it seems the primary divergence point between R/S/E and the ORAS timeline is the Kalos war. Zinnia mentions that a great "laser" somewhere else in the world, awakened Kyogre/Groudon and made them go berserk in their primal mode, which drew Rayquaza back to the Hoenn Region, allowing the latter to stop the formers rampage. Said laser deflected an asteroid that heading for the Hoenn region (that created the Birth Island in the original version of the game), thus preventing said island from coming into being, and leading to the Delta Episode crisis that ended with you battling Deoxys in space.

 

[Lorde]

I loved Zinnia so much; she was a great anti-hero in my opinion. I wish Delta Episode had been longer too; I loved having something plot-related to accomplish in OR/AS after the E4.

 

[Autobot N]

Except that Dr. Birch says that he is going to share the information he has gathered about mega evolution with a colleague on another continent, in a way that makes it sound like it is an entirely new discovery. This coupled with the creation of Mr. Bonding, and other hints throughout the Main Game and the Delta Episode (Including a couple of references to the Kalos War and to AZ himself during his wandering days) points towards ORAS is a prequel of sorts to XY. Because if AZ is wandering, then XY hasn't happened yet.
Of course, the Draconid people have known about Mega-Evolution for at least 3000 years, probably more. They where pretty clear about that in the Delta Episode.

Also, it seems the primary divergence point between R/S/E and the ORAS timeline is the Kalos war. Zinnia mentions that a great "laser" somewhere else in the world, awakened Kyogre/Groudon and made them go berserk in their primal mode, which drew Rayquaza back to the Hoenn Region, allowing the latter to stop the formers rampage. Said laser deflected an asteroid that heading for the Hoenn region (that created the Birth Island in the original version of the game), thus preventing said island from coming into being, and leading to the Delta Episode crisis that ended with you battling Deoxys in space.

Well, if Birch was telling this to a colleague, and that colleague was Sycamore, then why did he say in XY that currently there were examples of Mega Evolution only in the Kalos region?

 

[Ulicies]

Well, if Birch was telling this to a colleague, and that colleague was Sycamore, then why did he say in XY that currently there were examples of Mega Evolution only in the Kalos region?

And this is why some people are frustrated about ORAS, because they believe it upsets X/Y's storyline. However, I agree with another person in the thread, where he said that the third version basically overwrites the canon of the first two versions. From that perspective, you have to expect X and Y to introduce a new mechanic, and then for the theoretical Z version to rewrite the canon. In this case, I believe the third installment in Kalos will coincide more with ORAS' canon.

 

[Krishnath]

Well, if Birch was telling this to a colleague, and that colleague was Sycamore, then why did he say in XY that currently there were examples of Mega Evolution only in the Kalos region?

He lied so he could get all the credit? He is after all, a person who was convinced that Lysande was a admirable person until the latter tried to commit global genocide.