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Delta Episode Discussion

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Autobot N

Autobot
He lied so he could get all the credit? He is after all, a person who was convinced that Lysande was a admirable person until the latter tried to commit global genocide.
Get all the credit? To get the credit, he would have to take a trip to hoenn and "discover" the new megas.
 

Krishnath

Dragon Lord
Get all the credit? To get the credit, he would have to take a trip to hoenn and "discover" the new megas.
True, however he was claiming that he discovered it to a teen, and not a peer (another scientist). And as we all know, teens don't fact check all that often.
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
True, however he was claiming that he discovered it to a teen, and not a peer (another scientist). And as we all know, teens don't fact check all that often.
Err, where and when did Sycamore claim to have discovered Mega Evolution? He was studying the hows and whys of it, but I definitely don't recall him ever claiming to have discovered it. Would be pretty hard to make such a claim, seeing as he directs you to a place that has known of it since long before he was born...

As Endolise pointed out earlier in this thread, all Sycamore says on the subject is, "And why are there examples of Mega Evolution only in the Kalos region?" And whether he is claiming Mega Evolution exists only in Kalos is open to interpretation at best.
 

Krishnath

Dragon Lord
Err, where and when did Sycamore claim to have discovered Mega Evolution? He was studying the hows and whys of it, but I definitely don't recall him ever claiming to have discovered it. Would be pretty hard to make such a claim, seeing as he directs you to a place that has known of it since long before he was born...

As Endolise pointed out earlier in this thread, all Sycamore says on the subject is, "And why are there examples of Mega Evolution only in the Kalos region?" And whether he is claiming Mega Evolution exists only in Kalos is open to interpretation at best.
Good point.
 

PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
I have to admit, I felt pretty bad for Archie after Zinnia took his mega stone. He just got super depressed, and everyone kept having to cheer him up.

It was even sadder when he a Matt started to cry. That was so touching.
 

BurningWhiteKyurem

Well-Known Member
As Endolise pointed out earlier in this thread, all Sycamore says on the subject is, "And why are there examples of Mega Evolution only in the Kalos region?" And whether he is claiming Mega Evolution exists only in Kalos is open to interpretation at best.
Not sure how it's open to interpretation when it clearly suggests that. The issue is that why would he say that examples are only found in Kalos, if as a Professor, he would've found other clear examples of such phenomena in Hoenn (especially if we're to believe that ORAS happens before XY)? Either Sycamore is a horrible researcher, or GameFreak doesn't really know how to tell the story of Mega Evolution when they contradict what the prior games said about the mechanic.
 

Krishnath

Dragon Lord
Not sure how it's open to interpretation when it clearly suggests that. The issue is that why would he say that examples are only found in Kalos, if as a Professor, he would've found other clear examples of such phenomena in Hoenn (especially if we're to believe that ORAS happens before XY)? Either Sycamore is a horrible researcher, or GameFreak doesn't really know how to tell the story of Mega Evolution when they contradict what the prior games said about the mechanic.
Well, to be fair, it is also an emergent phenomenon in Hoenn, except among the Draconid people. As such it is not unlikely that he simply didn't know it had appeared there as well.
 

Endolise

TengenToppaBoogaloo
I mean, Mega Evolution seems like it was just being unearthed in XY
"Just being unearthed," despite the centuries-old tower dedicated to it in Shalour City?
 

Psynergy

Strong Winds
Staff member
Super Mod
Either Sycamore is a horrible researcher, or GameFreak doesn't really know how to tell the story of Mega Evolution when they contradict what the prior games said about the mechanic.
Or Sycamore could have just been wrong and not necessarily a horrible researcher. World famous researchers aren't necessarily always right especially on a subject that so few people know about. I really don't see a blatant contradiction here though.
 

BurningWhiteKyurem

Well-Known Member
Or Sycamore could have just been wrong and not necessarily a horrible researcher. World famous researchers aren't necessarily always right especially on a subject that so few people know about. I really don't see a blatant contradiction here though.
Horrible in the sense that when researching for examples of Mega Evolution, it didn't occur to him to research if Mega-Evolution had shown up in other regions? The most basic thing a researcher could do is use their data and compare to other things. For instance, crime patterns between one city and another, or more relevantly, evolution patterns and how they may differ from one place to another. The glaring contradiction is saying "examples of Mega Evolution only in Kalos" when Hoenn also has Mega Evolutions indigenous to that region. Now that I think about it, there were Pokemon that were indigenous to Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh that got Mega-Evolutions, and it didn't come across Sycamore's mind to see if that same phenomenon was occurring in regions indigenous to them?
 

Hasty

Moonside
Pokemon was never about logics. Sycamore being wrong/a horrible researcher makes the most sense.

You could say the same thing about why there are always new Pokemon and "earlier" regions don't know about them when they have contact between regions and have a higher level of technology than the real world. So, don't they have any telephones/Internet? Are they living under domes? I don't think so.
 

Krishnath

Dragon Lord
Pokemon was never about logics. Sycamore being wrong/a horrible researcher makes the most sense.

You could say the same thing about why there are always new Pokemon and "earlier" regions don't know about them when they have contact between regions and have a higher level of technology than the real world. So, don't they have any telephones/Internet? Are they living under domes? I don't think so.
Not to mention the whole Pokedex thing...

"Hi. We don't actually know which species of Pokemon live in this region, but we know how many, would you kindly try and find as many different species as possible?"
"Oh, you've found more species than there are native ones in this region, better upgrade your pokedex to one that covers the number of pokemon entire nation/world".

>.<
 

EmphaticPikachu

A tired little girl~
Not to mention the whole Pokedex thing...

"Hi. We don't actually know which species of Pokemon live in this region, but we know how many, would you kindly try and find as many different species as possible?"
"Oh, you've found more species than there are native ones in this region, better upgrade your pokedex to one that covers the number of pokemon entire nation/world".

>.<
yeah that never made sense to me zzz

Im sure if gamefreak tried they could retcon it to make sense, but since its pretty much tradition at this point idk if they will.
 

Excitable Boy

is a metaphor
I thought we agreed that the reason Sycamore thought Mega Evolution was Kalos-exclusive was because Game Freak hadn't come up with the alternative universes ass-pull yet in XY, with the whole "newly discovered" bit playing into it from the original universe/meta-perspective of the player; you'll notice they did the same thing with the introduction of new types

why are people looking for consistency in a game series clearly not designed for it

Or Sycamore could have just been wrong and not necessarily a horrible researcher.
That's highly improbable.
 

Auraninja

Try to understand.
I don't find it nearly as bad as Oak stuck in his own world of 150 Pokemon, even being mentioned in HG/SS.
 

Krishnath

Dragon Lord
I thought we agreed that the reason Sycamore thought Mega Evolution was Kalos-exclusive was because Game Freak hadn't come up with the alternative universes ass-pull yet in XY, with the whole "newly discovered" bit playing into it from the original universe/meta-perspective of the player; you'll notice they did the same thing with the introduction of new types
Except it didn't really come out of nowhere at all. Alternate universes have been pretty much Canon since the fourth generation with the introduction of Giratina, Dialga, Palkia and Arceus. Heck, Arceus even creates an entirely new universe in HGSS just so you can get one of the three legendary dragons of the fourth generation in that game. And even before that it was hinted at, as that was the only logical way that you could explain the differences between each individual game in a generation. Not to mention the differences between the various forms of Pokemon media: The game, the anime, and the manga all work by different rules, but are clearly part of what can best be described as a pokemon multiverse. The only real difference I see between now and then when it comes to the story is that now they actively point it out.
 

BurningWhiteKyurem

Well-Known Member
Except it didn't really come out of nowhere at all. Alternate universes have been pretty much Canon since the fourth generation with the introduction of Giratina, Dialga, Palkia and Arceus. Heck, Arceus even creates an entirely new universe in HGSS just so you can get one of the three legendary dragons of the fourth generation in that game. And even before that it was hinted at, as that was the only logical way that you could explain the differences between each individual game in a generation. Not to mention the differences between the various forms of Pokemon media: The game, the anime, and the manga all work by different rules, but are clearly part of what can best be described as a pokemon multiverse. The only real difference I see between now and then when it comes to the story is that now they actively point it out.
In what world is Arceus creating another universe? All I gathered from playing through the event is that Arceus musters up the power to create a Pokemon egg from pure scratch. There are many implications for this, one I can readily think of is that perhaps this is Arceus's way of keeping Space, Time, and Antimatter in balance should the Pokemon responsible for keeping it in check be caught, or dead. Additionally, we don't know that Time, Space, and Antimatter is limited to one universe, because we don't actually know if Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina have the ability to expand their powers into more than one universe (for instance, Dialga can view past events that didn't really exist in the current timeline etc.).

Also, why does the fact that people have varied playthroughs of the same game/different Pokemon appearing in both games need explaining? Regardless of the different Pokemon choices you make, the events are still going to be the same, and you are still going in the same linear path, so it's not like you're getting something new every single playthrough (as it pertains to story). Lastly, you're assuming that the manga, anime, and games share the same significance altogether and we all know that that's not true. The games are not connected to the anime, and are not connected to the manga because of these very different rules, and vice versa.
 
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Excitable Boy

is a metaphor
Except it didn't really come out of nowhere at all. Alternate universes have been pretty much Canon since the fourth generation with the introduction of Giratina, Dialga, Palkia and Arceus.
Right, but this is the first time they used the concept to make a meaningful distinction between overarching storylines as opposed to aesthetic/Pokemon availability differences; you can tell by the way that XY is written that Game Freak had originally intended for it to follow the past games in the same timeline, hence the whole "coming out of nowhere" and some of the contradictions regarding the mention of past antagonistic organizations and whatnot.

Not to mention the differences between the various forms of Pokemon media: The game, the anime, and the manga all work by different rules, but are clearly part of what can best be described as a pokemon multiverse.
That's super meta, though, and doesn't really mean anything.
 

Ulicies

Mild Monk
I did feel kind of disappointed when Mega Evolution seemed like a cheapened concept in ORAS, at least until the Delta Episode brought more gravitas. During the game, Steven just tosses you an extra Mega Bracelet like it's no big deal, when in XY, it was part of a lengthy story arc to acquire one properly.

I feel like these problems are symptomatic of ORAS being a remake. GameFreak ultimately has to focus on the storyline from R/S/E, but also feel like it would be bad to ignore Mega Evolution entirely. Therefore, they shoehorn in small quips and remarks about it during R/S/E's storyline, with Steven just flippantly tossing you a Mega Bracelet for the sake of gameplay more than anything else. It is only in the Delta Episode that Mega Evolution is properly utilized, probably because GameFreak then had the freedom to craft an entirely new storyline.
 

Legendary Dreams

Well-Known Member
I did feel kind of disappointed when Mega Evolution seemed like a cheapened concept in ORAS, at least until the Delta Episode brought more gravitas. During the game, Steven just tosses you an extra Mega Bracelet like it's no big deal, when in XY, it was part of a lengthy story arc to acquire one properly.

I feel like these problems are symptomatic of ORAS being a remake. GameFreak ultimately has to focus on the storyline from R/S/E, but also feel like it would be bad to ignore Mega Evolution entirely. Therefore, they shoehorn in small quips and remarks about it during R/S/E's storyline, with Steven just flippantly tossing you a Mega Bracelet for the sake of gameplay more than anything else. It is only in the Delta Episode that Mega Evolution is properly utilized, probably because GameFreak then had the freedom to craft an entirely new storyline.
To be fair though, assuming if they don't retcon it further, Hoenn is canonically the first region to have had access to Mega Evolution, and probably developed the Mega Gears a lot earlier than Kalos - and the number of characters with Mega Gears (Brendan, May, Wally, Maxie, Archie, Courtney, Matt, Zinnia, Lisia, Aarune, Sidney, Phoebe, Glacia, Drake and Steven) sort of showed that Hoenn is a region full of eager people (Devon already developed Infinity Energy, while you spent the entire of X&Y essentially stopping Lysandre from doing something similar in terms of structure).
 
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