Delta Episode Discussion

[HM02gon]

Zinnia also creeped me out as well, I wan't that much of a fan. Loved her design, but otherwise? Meeh.

Yeah I wasn't a bi fan of Zinnia either. As cool as her concept was, it was really creepy how she stalked you though out the story and then just walks up to your house and is like hey random kid I'm some creepy stalker and you're gonna save the world with me after I break into your friend's house and steal their mega stone.

And honestly like why does the game like to idolize dragon types so much? Yeah they're cool but honestly they're just another type. They should make a character that idolizes poison types. Or electric types. I don't know. Overall, Delta episode was cool, love going into space, but I wish Zinnia was more developed It would have been awesome to have the option to have her as a battle mason partner, since she does have a 3D model and she could use her mega Mence or something.

 

[Autobot N]

Yeah I wasn't a bi fan of Zinnia either. As cool as her concept was, it was really creepy how she stalked you though out the story and then just walks up to your house and is like hey random kid I'm some creepy stalker and you're gonna save the world with me after I break into your friend's house and steal their mega stone.

And honestly like why does the game like to idolize dragon types so much? Yeah they're cool but honestly they're just another type. They should make a character that idolizes poison types. Or electric types. I don't know. Overall, Delta episode was cool, love going into space, but I wish Zinnia was more developed It would have been awesome to have the option to have her as a battle mason partner, since she does have a 3D model and she could use her mega Mence or something.

If its any consolation, there is a Rich Boy in the battle resort that idolizes poison types.

 

[Lorde]

And honestly like why does the game like to idolize dragon types so much?

I don't see how OR/AS "idolized" Dragon-types. Aside from Mega Rayquaza and Zinnia's team in Delta Episode, I didn't think that Dragon-types were hyped much. :x

 

[Alexander18]

Yeah I wasn't a bi fan of Zinnia either. As cool as her concept was, it was really creepy how she stalked you though out the story and then just walks up to your house and is like hey random kid I'm some creepy stalker and you're gonna save the world with me after I break into your friend's house and steal their mega stone.

And honestly like why does the game like to idolize dragon types so much? Yeah they're cool but honestly they're just another type. They should make a character that idolizes poison types. Or electric types. I don't know. Overall, Delta episode was cool, love going into space, but I wish Zinnia was more developed It would have been awesome to have the option to have her as a battle mason partner, since she does have a 3D model and she could use her mega Mence or something.

Pretty sure that her and fellow members of Draconids are suppose to have dragon types as they worshiped Rayquaza or what they with it so Dragon types make since.

 

[Bguy7]

And honestly like why does the game like to idolize dragon types so much? Yeah they're cool but honestly they're just another type. They should make a character that idolizes poison types. Or electric types. I don't know. Overall, Delta episode was cool, love going into space, but I wish Zinnia was more developed It would have been awesome to have the option to have her as a battle mason partner, since she does have a 3D model and she could use her mega Mence or something.

Because two words: They're Dragons.

That's all you need. Everyone bow down to your Dragon Overlords. I would think that someone who named themselves after Flygon would understand this concept.

 

[TheDragonKing]

Because two words: They're Dragons.

That's all you need. Everyone bow down to your Dragon Overlords. I would think that someone who named themselves after Flygon would understand this concept.

Amen.

But yeah, considering Rayquaza seems to be considered the ultimate dragon type the Delta Episode is kind of almost justified in having so many dragons. All the dragons we had anyway were Ray-quay, Zinna's team, and supposedly the Draconids. The rest was Team Aqua/Magma and the space centre.

 

[WhyBuffet]

The Delta Episode was simply amazing. I really like Zinnia and I thought it was fitting that she used one of the most broken Mega Evolutions of all time.
If a Delta Emerald comes out, I hope they keep the Delta Episode, or even incorporate it more integrally into the story!

 

[BCVM22]

Given what Emerald was and given what the nonexistent - yes, nonexistent - Emerald remake would entail, what is it about what comprised Delta Episode that would be able to be repeated in such a game?

 

[NotABeginningTrainer]

Given what Emerald was and given what the nonexistent - yes, nonexistent - Emerald remake would entail, what is it about what comprised Delta Episode that would be able to be repeated in such a game?

This, because if Rayquaza was summoned to stop a hypothetical Primal Kyogre/Groudon fight why would it also be around to stop Deoxys? It's unlikely all of them would be part of the same quest. The only way would be for it to disappear after Kyogre/Groudon battle, you be unable to catch it until post-game, and Delta Episode (or something similiar) triggers after the Pokemon League.

 

[WhyBuffet]

I guess what I'm really just saying is that Zinnia should be a recurring character in any new game (Delta Emerald or otherwise).

 

[SILVER XD]

I guess what I'm really just saying is that Zinnia should be a recurring character in any new game (Delta Emerald or otherwise).

With the possibility of Z Version and it likely centering on Zygarde(if it does exist) Zinnia could show up there. Dragon type legendary that watches over a region, with all the X and Y references in ORAS it wouldn't seem too far fetched(avoiding pun). But I do think we've seen the last of Zinnia, it feels like her story is over and I wouldn't be one to clamor for her to return. I wouldn't be upset if she did happen to show up again either.

 

[Rio!]

I guess what I'm really just saying is that Zinnia should be a recurring character in any new game (Delta Emerald or otherwise).

I still don't understand the hang-up around 'Delta Emerald' when we've already re-visited the Hoenn region with the ends already tied up? Just because something is licensed does not mean it's going to happen. Isn't that what happened with 'Grey'? unless it become's Unova's re-make or something and somehow ties in a form of mega evolution or something pertaining to the 'original dragon' idk.
I'd imagine if Zinnia happens to re-appear, it'll be fairly minor; I could see her maybe being the character in future games that's able to teach Dragon Ascent to Rayquaza later on.

 

[The Pokemon Broadcast]

I still don't understand the hang-up around 'Delta Emerald' when we've already re-visited the Hoenn region with the ends already tied up?

Because 'muh Emerald features that should have been included in ORAS right from the start!' and all that jazz. I'm just guessing, though.

Anyway, I have to agree that it would be neat to see Zinnia again, but it would also be fine if she didn't appear. I'm cool either way.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

The Delta episode was literally made to avoid having to make an Emerald remake.

Delta Emerald ain't happening.

 

[Gone Airbourne]

I think it was a wonderful add onto the game. The whole storyline, Zinnia and the battle between Mega Rayquaza & Deoxys in space. I really enjoyed this extra part of ORAS and it does say at the end to be continued if I do remember right. Which I really hope they make Delta Emerald or make it a DLC that would be great.

ORAS has been such a great game and brought back so many memories to me listening through the soundtrack. I think Hoenn is the most beautiful out of all the regions as well.

 

[Krishnath]

I only just completed Delta Episode so I'm not familiar with all the plot speculation yet, but do we know why Zinnia acts like such a loony during her battles? That pose she makes at the start combined with the facial expressions creeped me out.

Zinnia acts loony, because she is loony. She is quite literally insane. She was trust into the role of lorekeeper when the previous lorekeeper met her demise (details of how or why the previous lorekeeper died is not given), which was someone Zinnia was very close to (sister, daughter, or lover, again details not given). She names a pokemon after the dead person (Aster) and treats it like a daughter. Then she learns that a giant friggin' asteroid is heading towards Hoenn, one of sufficient size to cause an extinction level event, and the only thing that can realistically stop said asteroid from impacting is a legendary dragon named Rayquaza that none have seen for over a thousand years. She learns that one of the ways to summon rayquaza was to upset the natural balance, so she infiltrates the local team of eco-terrorists (Aqua or Magma take your pick), and convinces said teams leader that the way to reach their goal is to awaken another legendary pokemon (Groudon or Kyogre, take your pick), because she knows the weather they create will eventually cause Ray-ray to come forth and pacify them, allowing her to plead with the dragon to stop the meteor. Even though awakening the primal beast will likely cause untold destruction and kill thousands she goes through with it because the alternative is worse. Then you come along and capture Kyogre/Groudon shortly after its awakening, putting the kibosh on her plan, causing her to essentially panic. She comes up with another way to summon ray-ray by collecting keystones (actually meteorites), however through her haze of insanity (and she is pretty far gone by this time as shown by her frantic behavior) she realizes that you are probably the best chance Hoenn's got, so she guides you along on the right path. You follow her to the Sky Pillar, you both reach the top, she tells you the legend of Rayquaza and knocks you out cold. When you awaken, she finishes the ritual to summon ray-ray, but it won't mega-evolve. She realizes that her behavior has made her unworthy of both being the lorekeeper and the savior of Hoenn, she passes the title onto you, the meteor you've been carrying for two-thirds of the game is what finally allows Ray-ray to transform, and you fight the dragon to show your worthiness. You and Ray-ray then travel to space to save Hoenn (and the world), fight Deoxys, and when you return, Zinnia is gone.

Zinnia lost it when original Aster died, she went more insane as time went by. It took the player's interactions with her at the top of the Sky pillar and with Rayquaza to fix her mind. She left Hoenn to travel the world after making you the new lorekeeper. The Player Character is a Draconid.

 

[Endless]

She was trust into the role of lorekeeper when the previous lorekeeper met her demise (details of how or why the previous lorekeeper died is not given), which was someone Zinnia was very close to (sister, daughter, or lover, again details not given).

Correct me if I'm wrong, bu I don't think it has ever been stated that the original Aster was the previous Lorekeeper. Just someone very close to her. Everything from a sister, child, lover and so on is possible.

She realizes that her behavior has made her unworthy of both being the lorekeeper and the savior of Hoenn, she passes the title onto you, the meteor you've been carrying for two-thirds of the game is what finally allows Ray-ray to transform, and you fight the dragon to show your worthiness.
Zinnia lost it when original Aster died, she went more insane as time went by. It took the player's interactions with her at the top of the Sky pillar and with Rayquaza to fix her mind. She left Hoenn to travel the world after making you the new lorekeeper. The Player Character is a Draconid.

This part is not really confirmed either. It's true that Zinnia admits that you're the one chosen by Rayquaza, and that she gives up the title of Lorekeeper. However you being their Successor as they call it doesn't need to be synonymous with being a Lorekeeper and definitely not a Draconid. The way I understood it the Draconids were a family and not an organization. In fact Zinnia mentions herself that she is the last Lorekeeper of the Draconids in this quote:
...That's it, then. I guess...it's time that I do my last task as Lorekeeper. You have obtained Rayquaza's power for your own... Now I will have you prove to me that you can master that power... in battle! That is my final... The final duty of the last Lorekeeper of the Draconid people! Show me that you can exceed it—the entirety of history that we have clung to until today!"

 

[Krishnath]

Correct me if I'm wrong, bu I don't think it has ever been stated that the original Aster was the previous Lorekeeper. Just someone very close to her. Everything from a sister, child, lover and so on is possible.

This part is not really confirmed either. It's true that Zinnia admits that you're the one chosen by Rayquaza, and that she gives up the title of Lorekeeper. However you being their Successor as they call it doesn't need to be synonymous with being a Lorekeeper and definitely not a Draconid. The way I understood it the Draconids were a family and not an organization. In fact Zinnia mentions herself that she is the last Lorekeeper of the Draconids in this quote:
...That's it, then. I guess...it's time that I do my last task as Lorekeeper. You have obtained Rayquaza's power for your own... Now I will have you prove to me that you can master that power... in battle! That is my final... The final duty of the last Lorekeeper of the Draconid people! Show me that you can exceed it—the entirety of history that we have clung to until today!"

It is mentioned that she was not the original holder of the title of lorekeeper and that the responsibility was thrust upon her when the previous lorekeeper died suddenly. It is inferred that said Lorekeeper was the original Aster.

As for her being the last Lorekeeper, that is true at the time she mentions it. When she said it, she was indeed the last Lorekeeper of the Draconids, but that does not in turn mean she is the last Lorekeeper that would ever be, just that she was the latest one. Throughout the Delta Episode, particularly as seen in the Sky Pillar (with the exposition and the back story), Zinnia groomed the PC to take over the role. The PC succeeding with Rayquaza where she had failed and your final battle with her was the last test of worthiness to the title. She was never supposed to be the Lorekeeper, the old lady at the Dragon Falls said so much, but when the chosen one died, there where no one else to take up the mantle, and she strained from the responsibility (and loss).

And in regards to the PC being a Draconid, it was fairly heavily hinted at from the get go that the PC was special in more ways than just being the designated protagonist of the game. Logically, a tribe/ethnic group such as the Draconids would eventually split into smaller groups as it grew, and some of those groups would, again, logically, travel to and settle in other regions. Heck, they did so within Hoenn, one group stayed near Meteor Falls, while another moved to and settled Sootopolis (handily explaining why Wallace knows as much as he does, as well as explaining why he is part of the group that guards the Cave of Origins). It is far from illogical that such a group would move to and settle in Jotho, which incidentally is where the Protagonist is from. The PC's bond with pokemon goes far beyond most other characters in the game, including ones that bond heavily with their pokes. Only a handful of other characters in ORAS reach the same level, one is the alternate protagonist (obviously), one is Wally, and the rest are either a confirmed Draconid (Zinnia), or suspected as such (Wallace, Lisia, Steven). And then of course, there is the fact that the Lati@s chose to become part of your team. One thing is a coincidence, many coincidences stop being such.

 

[Endless]

It is mentioned that she was not the original holder of the title of lorekeeper and that the responsibility was thrust upon her when the previous lorekeeper died suddenly. It is inferred that said Lorekeeper was the original Aster.

Yeah the title seemed to be passed down over generations, I wouldn't be surpries if Zinnia's grandmother was the current Lorekeeper in her younger days. But can you show me a quote or when she says that the previous Lorekeeper had a sudden death, becaue I don't really remember that and I can't find anything that suggests it in neither Zinnia or her grandmother's dialogue. To me it would be very odd if Aster was Zinnia's predecessor since Zinnia treats her like a child.

As for her being the last Lorekeeper, that is true at the time she mentions it. When she said it, she was indeed the last Lorekeeper of the Draconids, but that does not in turn mean she is the last Lorekeeper that would ever be, just that she was the latest one. Throughout the Delta Episode, particularly as seen in the Sky Pillar (with the exposition and the back story), Zinnia groomed the PC to take over the role. The PC succeeding with Rayquaza where she had failed and your final battle with her was the last test of worthiness to the title. She was never supposed to be the Lorekeeper, the old lady at the Dragon Falls said so much, but when the chosen one died, there where no one else to take up the mantle, and she strained from the responsibility (and loss).

And in regards to the PC being a Draconid, it was fairly heavily hinted at from the get go that the PC was special in more ways than just being the designated protagonist of the game. Logically, a tribe/ethnic group such as the Draconids would eventually split into smaller groups as it grew, and some of those groups would, again, logically, travel to and settle in other regions. Heck, they did so within Hoenn, one group stayed near Meteor Falls, while another moved to and settled Sootopolis (handily explaining why Wallace knows as much as he does, as well as explaining why he is part of the group that guards the Cave of Origins). It is far from illogical that such a group would move to and settle in Jotho, which incidentally is where the Protagonist is from. The PC's bond with pokemon goes far beyond most other characters in the game, including ones that bond heavily with their pokes. Only a handful of other characters in ORAS reach the same level, one is the alternate protagonist (obviously), one is Wally, and the rest are either a confirmed Draconid (Zinnia), or suspected as such (Wallace, Lisia, Steven). And then of course, there is the fact that the Lati@s chose to become part of your team. One thing is a coincidence, many coincidences stop being such.

Well yeah it's not stated that the MC does not become a Lorekeeper, but it isn't exactly stated that they do either. The problem lies more with saying that the MC is a Draconid. Zinnia saying that she has one more mission to fulfill as the last Lorekeeper of the Draconids would refer to her being the end of the line in everyday speach and fulfilling the Draconids' prophercy. If she meant that you were a Draconid as well saying "latest", "current", or just saying "a" Lorekeeper of the Draconids would be much more proper.

Of course it is possible that the Draconids spread to other regions as well. But to say that the MC is a decendant of Draconids that moved to Olivine is a fan theory at best. For all we know Draconids only refers to the clan in Meteor Falls, since Wallace refers to himself as a Sootopolitan when testing if you're ready to enter Sky Pillar. The player is obviously the very best because of gameplay. That's true in all of the pokémon main series games, using that to determine that they are Draconids is reaching. I think the only time they have even been close to explain it is in BW where the MC is seen as some sort of spiritual successor of one of the two brothers depending on version, but them actually having any blood relation is not mentioned at all. (Also I severly doubt that Steven is a Draconid since his family doesn't seem to know anything about them at all). My point was that in your original post you stated that the MC is a Draconid when that's just a fan theory of yours.

 

[darkbluespark]

Really liked the Delta Episode, found it fun and interesting. So glad they added it in, the original Sapphire was kinda boring post game imo. Accidentally KO'd Deoxys though, so gonna have to beat the E4 again