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Derailed vs Already Bad Characters: Which is worse?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by moneylesswario, Feb 10, 2013.

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  1. moneylesswario

    moneylesswario Shudo's Powerhouses

    What types of characters do you think are worse?

    Those who were at least decent, but then got lame in some way, whether it be the exaggeration of one trait, or just fading into the background?

    Or characters who were never good to begin with?

    (No examples.)

    For me, derailed characters are worse, because with characters that were already bad, I had no prior attachment to them, and they weren't disgraced.

    What do you think?

    To quote Bluelatios*:
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2013
  2. Rovian

    Rovian Kodoku no Koori

    I agree that derailed characters are worse. They started off one way, and lost things about them or changed in a bad way.

    Brock was an interesting character in his debut episode, but later became a clown. It got worse when he kept getting attacked by his Croagunk.
  3. LizardonX

    LizardonX Banned

    What exactly is a derailed character anyways? Brock was never derailed as they never really gave him a rail besides the very broad definition of wanting to breed.
  4. Bulba the Great!

    Bulba the Great! We Do Not Sow

    Talk about derailed characters, Butch and Cassidy say hello.

    They started as kick-butt characters with sinister intentions to being worse than TRio.
  5. Derailed characters. It's painful to see characters you love being milked for all its worth.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2013
  6. Kutie Pie

    Kutie Pie 桜咲くこの坂を今も上っている

    Derailed characters are the worst due to the attachment and potential over the course of the series. You can't always expect characters to start out great at first, they have to be plain and rather decent so they can grow into their character (after all, we're just starting to know them). Characters who are bad to begin with are usually the ones they expect us to not like, or they were thrown together at the last minute and it shows. They tend to be one-shot characters for the most part, but even then they go and make them basically the spotlight of the episode. Thankfully, you rarely see them again after that.
  7. AgentPierce

    AgentPierce Mad science FTW!

    Derailed characters, no question about it.

    Typical fandom misunderstanding of character......that's thinking in terms of what he is, not who he is.

    And as for who he is, Brock was very different in Kanto than he was in Sinnoh.
  8. Definitely. Not even close.
  9. LizardonX

    LizardonX Banned

    Yeah he was way more mature and competent when not being stabbed by croagunk.
  10. Also in the background most of the time. :p
  11. AgentPierce

    AgentPierce Mad science FTW!

    Mature and competent? You're joking, right? What "competence" did he show; he barely battled.

    And maturity? His perversion was WAY more overblown and exaggerated than how it was in Kanto.
  12. Brock was a pansy, yet his dub voice sounded like a trucker in his 40s. His Pokemon team was downright pathetic. Three Pokemon that are all found in the wild in Sinnoh. His character was milked.

    I could go on and on about why I don't like Brock's character in that arc.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2013
  13. Bluelatios*

    Bluelatios* Well-Known Member

    Now, c'mon guys lets not bash Brock. In fact, I propose that nobody hints or mentions any specific names so that nobody gets upset and starts a flamewar. You should consider adding that to the first post marioluigi :). So non-specifically in general I'd say that characters that are bad from the start are worse. At least derailed characters by definition had a solid foundation to begin with, so that the writers always have the option to return to that foundation if they find themselves stagnating the character. On the other hand, a character that has a bad start already has a greater uphill battle to redeem themselves and gain a positive fanbase. In short, both can improve or worsen, but existing characters usually already have a wealth of things for them to work with.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2013
  14. Kokatsu

    Kokatsu Well-Known Member

    I think Brock with effort from the writers could of been great in DP. Not everyone needs a goal that is a tournament. Brock should of got more Pokemon in DP and his goal as a breeder should of been focused on more. There was no reason for Brock to have been pushed aside in DP to the point people forgot he was in the series at all. I mean people can say Iris is a bad character and to some degree her writing is bad. However it is better compared to Misty who got less focus in her 250+ eps than Iris has in less then 150. The issue with the writers is they toss in so many people in the series and seem to focus only on the people in actual tournaments.
  15. I feel the writers (and the dubbers) did not do Brock any justice in the DP arc. That's really the nicest way I can put it.

    That's how I feel as well.
  16. EmphaticPikachu

    EmphaticPikachu A tired little girl~

    Lol brock, he didn't change almost at all until the end of DP. I found DP brock to be the funniest since kanto, but that's just me.

    I really have a hard time arguing about repetitiveness in Pokemon, lets try to treat things more equally okay? .-...

    Aside from that, Derailed characters are worse.

    ...asuming they're atcually you know, De-railed and not just disliked.

    Bad characters are by far worse, its just that, its alot easier to spot a bad character then a...truly derailed one, especially when you're talking about pokemon.

    Emotions/character attachment tend to also make derailed characters worse, which is good, it proves you care about them. But still...remember the bigger picture .-.
  17. He was funny, but in the "This is so bad, this is downright hilarious!" sense for me. I think they totally decimated his character. He's supposed to be a mature, wise, mentor-esque figure. A likeable figure. DP just pushed him to the sidelines and made him too much of a joke...
  18. EmphaticPikachu

    EmphaticPikachu A tired little girl~

    Maybe you have trouble seeing this wacky characters as wise .-...

    when you see a wacky character, their wise moments become ten times as wise. When ever there were pokemon problems around, he'd get serious. hell, as long as there were no pretty girls around...he was always serious.
    The maid cafe episode I think represents his character best out of everything recent. Wacky yet wise. When there was nothing for him to wacky or wise about, he got pushed to the sidelines.

    He wasn't bad in my mind, its just that there was really nothing for him to do. which is why he finally went at the end of DP.
    Yet I never saw how he was any worse or any better then much of the other saga's besides kanto and possibly because of the voices.

    But I liked both of his voices, one of the few I stayed liking. (I've only conditioned myself to like ash's. XD)
  19. OceanicLanturn

    OceanicLanturn Non non non!

    #DP Bash thread in disguise

    Eh, both are pretty bad depending on what degrees. IMO Cilan was pretty derailed, and he has random stuff popping up. Train Connesieur, Movie Connesieur and some other stuff. Already bad characters like Cameron/Kotetsu are pretty bad too, like acting like an idiot and somehow
    beating ash in the Isshu League
    ... yeah.

    IMO I don't mind it if it goes slightly derailed, but too much is bad. It also is terrible if an already bad character be lame and stay lame. I love improvements, but on some bad characters I can't see any.

    There are some bad characters that started bad but improved on their way. Dawn and May come into mind, not sure about Misty, but Iris was ok, not the best. Bianca also developed. I mean, she managed to get 8 badges and enter the league, something which many can't do.
  20. TBH, I hated both Ash and Brock's dub voices during DP. I've only gotten used to Ash's voice since BW. XD.

    Brock's PUSA voice actually started out my favorite of all of them in the BF (tied with Jessie's), and then in DP became my worst...I don't know what the voice director did, but it was tough to get used for me, because Brock's voice got so much deeper. Ash's started out my worst in BF, he only got worse in the first 2 seasons of DP, then improved in the latter two, and now he's tolerable in BW. :)

    I feel poor Brock was pushed to the sidelines TOO much in the DP arc, I guess. You're right, he wasn't as WACKY before. That may be it. I feel he didn't have enough depth to his character there (I sound like Cilan now...XD). That's my main gripe with DP's characterization of him. It's what's been happening with TRio right now in BW (the whole lack of screen-time issue). I wish the JPN writers would really try to avoid doing that.

    The maid episode was one of the BEST episodes for DP Brock. I really, really liked him there. They should've done more eps like that...

    DP Brock bash thread in disguise.

    It's sad because I do like DP Brock occasionally, but the whole Croagunk jabbing thing (that wasn't funny to me for some reason), the Pokemon they gave him, the spotlight taken from him to an extreme degree...it's a bit depressing. They could've done so much better with his character.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2013
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