Detective Pikachu Movie Discussion Thread

[Bguy7]

1) Actually it can be close-minded if you choose to ignore several flaws in order to reach your goal of how it would work, not be great.

You know what else is close-minded? Asserting over and over again that project that may not even exist is doomed to failure without even trying to consider how it might succeed. The fact of the matter is, we don't know how they're going to go about this project. If they do go ahead with it, and make their changes, which may or may not align with what I've suggested, you might find out that some of the things you currently can't live without aren't as important as you thought. Then again, maybe I'll be wrong, and the movie will be completely awful with so many cut out. The point is, neither of us can know if the movie will be a good or bad until we see it. So how about you stop with the proclamations of how bad the movie will be until we at least see some solid information on it, if not the movie itself?

I disagree coming from a script-writer myself. If were talking about Team Rocket as the overall main focus of the story, your going to have to include the little details like Snorlax or the S.S. Anne to build-up the importance of Pokemon otherwise your Pokemon movie is doomed to fail to begin with. You also have to include showing Team Rocket's impact on the Pokemon and trainers outside of their base of operations to set up a menacing villainous presence for the audience. Also Red enjoying Pokemon battles and bonding with his own Pokemon would serve as the anti-thesis but also shares similar characteristics to Giovanni, a trainer who loves Pokemon battles as a sport but wants to become the strongest Pokemon trainer through questionable vile means. The best villains are the ones you can understand and through how Giovanni can somewhat relate to Red's adventures, that's possible.

Of course the movie is going to be more than just battling Team Rocket. And they may chose to use some of those minor subplots. They also may chose to ditch them, in favor of doing their own original, shorter, and better integrated sequences that better tie the movie together. The point is, cutting, let's say Snorlax, is a much easier thing to do than cutting Silph Co. or the Rocket Hideout.

As I explained previously. It's practically impossible to make a good video game adaptation movie out of a single one to casual audiences. It's possible to make a workable movie like Warcraft but not a great one.

Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't happen.

Does your same logic apply to the Detective Pikachu movie? It's a video game movie. Do you think it's automatically doomed to fail too?

 

[Kein]

It's possible to make a workable movie like Warcraft but not a great one. Although there are some exceptions to this, it's still pretty rare and they're not usually made with the casual audience in mind.

If it ends up being just workable, that's life. We probably should worry about Detective Pikachu first.

 

[shoz999]

You know what else is close-minded? Asserting over and over again that project that may not even exist is doomed to failure without even trying to consider how it might succeed. The fact of the matter is, we don't know how they're going to go about this project. If they do go ahead with it, and make their changes, which may or may not align with what I've suggested, you might find out that some of the things you currently can't live without aren't as important as you thought. Then again, maybe I'll be wrong, and the movie will be completely awful with so many cut out. The point is, neither of us can know if the movie will be a good or bad until we see it. So how about you stop with the proclamations of how bad the movie will be until we at least see some solid information on it, if not the movie itself?



Of course the movie is going to be more than just battling Team Rocket. And they may chose to use some of those minor subplots. They also may chose to ditch them, in favor of doing their own original, shorter, and better integrated sequences that better tie the movie together. The point is, cutting, let's say Snorlax, is a much easier thing to do than cutting Silph Co. or the Rocket Hideout.



Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't happen.

Does your same logic apply to the Detective Pikachu movie? It's a video game movie. Do you think it's automatically doomed to fail too?

1) That argument doesn't even make sense since I've considered how it might succeed multiple times and yours too.
2) Actually from what I've seen cutting out the Team Rocket storyline is much easier than it seems. Just look at the anime. Now that I think about it, I suppose a Pokemon movie without the complicated Team Rocket storyline would actually be much easier.
3) Pretty obvious my logic applies to Detective Pikachu too. Because of the unique circumstances it has, it's an exception because it serves as a good start with a good amount of freedom from a spin-off that doesn't have to worry too much about nostalgia while maintaining the central themes that makes Pokemon Pokemon such as adventure, the great outdoors and of course the Pokemon itself whereas an adaptation of Red & Blue would heavily disappoint fans from the get-go. So of course my logic applies to Detective Pikachu too.

 

[Prof. SALTY]

1 movie is not enough time to flesh out the story-building and might cause the public to once again lose faith in video game adaptations just when Detective Pikachu may have gotten it right forcing Nintendo to do everything in there power to take away the film rights if it doesn't bring in the monay. So three movies should just be right in the long-run!

I completely understand where you're coming from, but I think you're letting your hopes cloud your judgement. Realistically, they're going to play it safe. It will likely be a standalone story with an opening for a sequel at the end. NO ONE is saying this is the best thing, but it's the most realistic.

Also I forgot to add it to my previous statement, but I have another point about the manga. Using the manga as an example, when manga is adapted to anime, one volume = ~5 20 minute episodes (this is not always the case, but it is the standard). Converted to movies, that means 1 volume = 1 movie.

 

[shoz999]

I also completely understand that but what I'm saying is that realistically such a film project may be doomed and not considering why such video-game film projects might be doomed is to ignore further possibilities on how a video-game film project may realistically succeed. Trial and error, overcoming these obstacles you could say. The problem here is that a "workable" video-game film like Prince of Persia or Warcraft are either deemed failures by reviewers or by the box-office. I personally think they are "workable" because it actually isn't such a bad adaptation of the games but as a film, it's not really that good. This has long been a continuing trend in video game adaptations and it's pretty annoying to see it being ignored in talking about even a "workable" film and by extension a great film.

Again. I get what your saying. Your going by trends, a single lone film but also what's by trends and also what's "realistic" is that these films are doomed to fail because of these "realistic" reasons many of you are sticking to, either the film director just doesn't know the source material or it's just too big and it has to be cut down. The thing is you can see it in bgu7's comments, he's deeming certain plot-points as "irrelevant", from Snorlax to even the Gym Leader battles, is because he feels they can be cut-down to a 2 hour plot. Now let's take that "realistic" approach a bit further. We can actually take out Team Rocket's giant storyline from the games too and they contribute so much hours into the Pokemon games storyline and reduce it to simply I don't know, Jessie & James and Meowth which wouldn't surprise me actually especially considering their canon game appearances and the anime has actually already proven that you don't need the Team Rocket storyline. Why would someone want to reduce it to just a pair of grunts, because it takes up too much hours on the movie. Now how about in another scenario we keep the Team Rocket plot in somehow? That would be taking too much of the film's 2-hour story-line literally. How is that even going to work in a 3-act structure? Red encounters Team Rocket at usually there base-of-operations so how are you going to build-up to that without giving it enough time. When is Team Rocket going to even appear in what act? Will Red even have enough time to capture Pokemon? Do you see what the big "realistic" problem with Team Rocket is? They are still too big for the movie that you'd literally have to cut them out too or at least reduce the focus on them in a similar way of doing flashbacks for the Gym Leaders.

What I'm saying is what you guys considered as the so-called "realistic" option has so many problems for it to work, good or not and ignoring the mistakes of the past will not help it succeed. Realistic does not equal workable.

 

[Bguy7]

1) That argument doesn't even make sense since I've considered how it might succeed multiple times and yours too.

And yet you continue to say stuff like, "It's practically impossible to make a good video game adaptation movie," instead of just letting it go, and waiting to see how the movie turns out, because that's what having an open mind means.

2) Actually from what I've seen cutting out the Team Rocket storyline is much easier than it seems. Just look at the anime. Now that I think about it, I suppose a Pokemon movie without the complicated Team Rocket storyline would actually be much easier.

I mean, sure, you could do that. But seeing as Team Rocket is the only real coherent plot that Red and Blue has, I'm not really sure what you'd do instead. Without Team Rocket, the best you could hope for from the movie is a series of somewhat episodic sub-plots forced together into one movie. It could be done, but I'm not sure it would be very good. Definitely works better for a multiple episode TV show than a one-shot movie. I suppose you could just focus on the journey itself, but at that point it wouldn't have as much of an appeal to general audiences, and it wouldn't really be a Red and Blue movie anymore, it would just be a generic Pokémon movie. (Not that I have a problem with a generic Pokémon movie, just saying.)

3) Pretty obvious my logic applies to Detective Pikachu too. Because of the unique circumstances it has, it's an exception because it serves as a good start with a good amount of freedom from a spin-off that doesn't have to worry too much about nostalgia while maintaining the central themes that makes Pokemon Pokemon such as adventure, the great outdoors and of course the Pokemon itself whereas an adaptation of Red & Blue would heavily disappoint fans from the get-go. So of course my logic applies to Detective Pikachu too.

My point is, just because it's a movie made from a video game, does not mean it's doomed for failure. In the end, that's what your entire argument boils down to, and the logic is flawed. If Detective Pikachu can be successful, then clearly it is not "practically impossible to make a good video game adaptation movie."

 

[greninjamaster]

But the Pokemon name is much more mainstream. I mean it's the highest grossing franchise of all time for a reason. This being successful doesn't mean a Mario, DK, Zelda, Metriod film will be successful.

 

[shoz999]

And yet you continue to say stuff like, "It's practically impossible to make a good video game adaptation movie," instead of just letting it go, and waiting to see how the movie turns out, because that's what having an open mind means.



I mean, sure, you could do that. But seeing as Team Rocket is the only real coherent plot that Red and Blue has, I'm not really sure what you'd do instead. Without Team Rocket, the best you could hope for from the movie is a series of somewhat episodic sub-plots forced together into one movie. It could be done, but I'm not sure it would be very good. Definitely works better for a multiple episode TV show than a one-shot movie. I suppose you could just focus on the journey itself, but at that point it wouldn't have as much of an appeal to general audiences, and it wouldn't really be a Red and Blue movie anymore, it would just be a generic Pokémon movie. (Not that I have a problem with a generic Pokémon movie, just saying.)



My point is, just because it's a movie made from a video game, does not mean it's doomed for failure. In the end, that's what your entire argument boils down to, and the logic is flawed. If Detective Pikachu can be successful, then clearly it is not "practically impossible to make a good video game adaptation movie."

1) And yet I've considered how it might be a success to reach to that conclusion. So again. That doesn't make any sense.
2) Actually a generic Pokemon movie might be the most realistic and workable route.
3) If you think that's my point, then you failed to see what I'm trying to say and by extension do not understand why most video game movies fail and why the few rare video game movies succeed not simply just as workable films but at least as very good films. Yes, it may surprise some of you but there is at least one very well-made video game adaptation film that exist. Professor Layton and the Eternal Diva.

 

[Prof. SALTY]

The problem here is that a "workable" video-game film like Prince of Persia or Warcraft are either deemed failures by reviewers or by the box-office.

Resident Evil is literally one of the highest grossing horror movie series ever... Started with a singular movie with sequel bait at the end. This RGB movie if they go ahead with it will likely be bad no matter what.

the film director just doesn't know the source material or it's just too big and it has to be cut down.

Directors are rarely aware of the source material for adaptions. Rupert Sanders famously said that he loves the Ghost in the Shell 1995 anime movie and immediately started spouting the wikipedia article for the first episode of 2004's Stand Alone Complex.

he's deeming certain plot-points as "irrelevant", from Snorlax to even the Gym Leader battles, is because he feels they can be cut-down to a 2 hour plot. Now let's take that "realistic" approach a bit further. We can actually take out Team Rocket's giant storyline from the games too and they contribute so much hours into the Pokemon games storyline and reduce it to simply I don't know, Jessie & James and Meowth which wouldn't surprise me actually especially considering their canon game appearances and the anime has actually already proven that you don't need the Team Rocket storyline.

It doesn't sound like you actually understood what they were saying. Things like Snorlax and Bill are irrelevant to the plot. They're basically there to slow your process which this movie DEFINITELY would not need.

Now how about in another scenario we keep the Team Rocket plot in somehow? That would be taking too much of the film's 2-hour story-line literally.

W... What? What do you think the plot would even be if not the TR arc? There'd be no plot otherwise.

Will Red even have enough time to capture Pokemon?

It's unlikely we'll see this. Even in your 5 part movie idea, this would be impossible to pace well.

Do you see what the big "realistic" problem with Team Rocket is? They are still too big for the movie that you'd literally have to cut them out too or at least reduce the focus on them in a similar way of doing flashbacks for the Gym Leaders.

Have you ever seen a movie before...?

 

[shoz999]

Resident Evil is literally one of the highest grossing horror movie series ever... Started with a singular movie with sequel bait at the end. This RGB movie if they go ahead with it will likely be bad no matter what.



Directors are rarely aware of the source material for adaptions. Rupert Sanders famously said that he loves the Ghost in the Shell 1995 anime movie and immediately started spouting the wikipedia article for the first episode of 2004's Stand Alone Complex.



It doesn't sound like you actually understood what they were saying. Things like Snorlax and Bill are irrelevant to the plot. They're basically there to slow your process which this movie DEFINITELY would not need.



W... What? What do you think the plot would even be if not the TR arc? There'd be no plot otherwise.



It's unlikely we'll see this. Even in your 5 part movie idea, this would be impossible to pace well.



Have you ever seen a movie before...?

1) Oh right. I forget the Resident Evil movies even existed lol.
2) So I guess it's just the latter.
3) Actually Snorlax is one of Red's consistently used Pokemon and Bill is one of the most integral characters in the Pokemon universe. They could easily do that through a flashback scene or a starting sequence to let the audience know what Red is capable of in the beginning of the movie, of course you are talking about a stand-alone movie so I see what your saying but it's also for those same reasons that I just don't think a stand-alone film would do well since it would force the scriptwriters to think of a way for Red to build character dynamics-chemistry with other characters which also technically include Pokemon in little time.
4) What was the plot of Ash & Co. in the Indigo League? Either it's the Pokemon League... or nothing comes to mind! There. You have your movie plot lol... which might not actually be a bad idea now that I think about it...
5) I doubt it. It can easily work in a 5-parter as long as the people understand you can build character dynamics during the main story too.
6) You have to clarify.

On a different note. Who else saw what Snubbull looked like from Detective Pikachu?

 

[Prof. SALTY]

Actually Snorlax is one of Red's consistently used Pokemon and Bill is one of the most integral characters in the Pokemon universe. They could easily do that through a flashback scene or a starting sequence to let the audience know what Red is capable of in the beginning of the movie, of course you are talking about a stand-alone movie so I see what your saying but it's also for those same reasons that I just don't think a stand-alone film would do well since it would force the scriptwriters to think of a way for Red to build character dynamics-chemistry with other characters which also technically include Pokemon in little time.

He can have a Snorlax, that's fine. We just don't need to see him catch it. Flashbacks are unnecessary and break the flow. A throwaway line like "I caught this on route whatever" (but less bad) would be fine. As for character interaction, we can just see that... we don't need flashbacks.

What was the plot of Ash & Co. in the Indigo League? Either it's the Pokemon League... or nothing comes to mind! There. You have your movie plot lol... which might not actually be a bad idea now that I think about it...

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here... are you referring to the tournament style championship or are you talking about the league Journey with the badges?

I doubt it. It can easily work in a 5-parter as long as the people understand you can build character dynamics during the main story too.

This and the next point are related and I can explain this in one word.

Divergent.

Divergent was a set-up movie for a series. It was super boring because nothing happened. It was a movie literally just there to set up a sequel. It reviewed terribly because no one wants to see a set-up movie. With your 5 partner, there isn't any plot until movie 3 really. Movie series can have filler movies (Harry Potter movie 5 and 7 for example), but you can't start with one.

On a different note. Who else saw what Snubbull looked like from Detective Pikachu?

Unfortunately.... The set prop looked so good but the model looks so baaaaad...

 

[Shadao]

Perhaps it's time to elaborate on my thoughts on the hypothetical scenario of Red and Blue movie.

Saying it's an adaptation of Red and Blue is going to make me think they are literally adapting the plot of Red and Blue. Because if it's just a typical Pokémon trainer on a journey movie, it could be any region and we should not be confined to a certain generation of Pokémon. By implying that it's an adaptation of Red and Blue, I'm going to look into the actual plot line of Red and Blue to see if it's adaptable rather imagining they are going for an original screenplay. Truth be told, they should really take a page from the anime and the movie The Power of Us to realize what works and what doesn't.

This is why something like Detective Pikachu works so well as a potentially good Pokémon film. It's small and focuses on a few characters, primarily Tim and his Pikachu. Satoshi Tajiri has stated that the point of Pokémon is the bond between humans and Pokémon. He once stated that US got his idea better than Japan by comparing the Pokémon merchandise backpacks. Japanese Pokémon Backpack is just Pikachu while USA Pokémon Backpack is Ash and Pikachu. This is also why he had stated that Pokémon Adventures is the closest adaptation of Pokémon to capture his vision during the first volume run. The focus was primarily on Red and his Pokémon.

The reason I bring this up is because I notice a lot of people here have focus heavily on the human aspect of the Red and Blue story and not the Pokémon aspect. This has the potential to go human-centric and treat Pokémon like an afterthought/plot devices that could easily be removed from the story. Think Micheal Bay Transformers if you will.

Why was something like Pokémon The Power of Us well received despite being a low-key Slice of Life film? Simple. Tetsuo Yajima focuses on the humans and their individual Pokémon partners rather than a grand spectacle that previous Pokémon films have fallen under.

If we're going to do a Pokémon Red and Blue adaptation, I say throw the "plot line" into the trash and start focusing on the basics. What draws people into Pokémon? Who do we focus, and what story would best present them within 2 hours? Start from there, and the story can become something great like a Pixar film.

 

[Bguy7]

1) And yet I've considered how it might be a success to reach to that conclusion. So again. That doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, I'm done with this point of contention.

2) Actually a generic Pokemon movie might be the most realistic and workable route.

Maybe it would be, but that's not what we're discussing here.

3) If you think that's my point, then you failed to see what I'm trying to say and by extension do not understand why most video game movies fail and why the few rare video game movies succeed not simply just as workable films but at least as very good films. Yes, it may surprise some of you but there is at least one very well-made video game adaptation film that exist. Professor Layton and the Eternal Diva.

Okay, so if that's the case, why don't we just wait until we have some actually tangible information on this movie (if it even exists in the first place), before we decide whether this movie falls into the typical video game movie traps, or is one of the exceptions?

 

[shoz999]

He can have a Snorlax, that's fine. We just don't need to see him catch it. Flashbacks are unnecessary and break the flow. A throwaway line like "I caught this on route whatever" (but less bad) would be fine. As for character interaction, we can just see that... we don't need flashbacks.



I'm not sure what you're trying to say here... are you referring to the tournament style championship or are you talking about the league Journey with the badges?



This and the next point are related and I can explain this in one word.

Divergent.

Divergent was a set-up movie for a series. It was super boring because nothing happened. It was a movie literally just there to set up a sequel. It reviewed terribly because no one wants to see a set-up movie. With your 5 partner, there isn't any plot until movie 3 really. Movie series can have filler movies (Harry Potter movie 5 and 7 for example), but you can't start with one.



Unfortunately.... The set prop looked so good but the model looks so baaaaad...

1) Fair enough.
2) Ash & Co's basic plot outside of the tournament was just travelling. Travelling, travelling, travelling and that can actually make a very good movie.
3) Oh you mean how the first movie always has to feel like a stand-alone, finished from beginning to end with a plot. It's practically recommended but that's not always the case for all film series, Lord of the Rings for example but the thing is almost everyone here wants Team Rocket because they want a villain to make it have that complete plot presence, when it feels like the plot has weight. However the more I discuss about this, the more... wrong... it just seems for the Pokemon main series to be in movie format. It does have a giant overall story with villains but it's also composed of those little side-story moments that built-up the story to something else and I feel like I Choose You is actually a great example of this, humanization and journey. We see at one time Ash & Co. swimming in the lake with there Pokemon, hanging around the fire in a cave when there Pokemon refuse to be in their Pokeballs and the female character Verity looking at her photos while noticing Suicune watching in the night. I feel like these are those little moments that makes Pokemon Pokemon as there not just separate but also building-up to an overall journey that comes down to Ho-Oh which personally I don't think it was that good by the 3rd act but it definitely gets nostalgic by the end when they seperate their own ways.

After discussing about this, honestly a regular Pokemon journey that focuses more on traveling might be the best way to go about this. No Team Rocket, no Gym Leaders, not even any flashbacks just Red traveling and visiting new people and Pokemon.

 

[Redstar45]

Would fans crying about Red copy Satoshi like they did with the first episode of Pokemon generation ?

 

[Prof. SALTY]

I'm gonna rearrange a couple bits just for flow but;

Ash & Co's basic plot outside of the tournament was just travelling. Travelling, travelling, travelling and that can actually make a very good movie.

After discussing about this, honestly a generic Pokemon journey might be the best way to go about this. No Team Rocket, no Gym Leaders, not even any flashbacks just Red traveling and visiting new people and Pokemon

I 110% agree with you on this. It would definitely be the best way to go about it and would probably make a better movie than anything they're actually going to make, buuuuut... This is Hollywood and that sort of movie "doesn't sell". If Netflix were handling it, sure. Maybe they would go with this. But that's not the case.

almost everyone here wants Team Rocket because they want a villain to make it have that complete plot presence, when it feels like the plot has weight.

It's not really that everyone wants a TR plot, but more that it's the plot that makes the most sense from an American movie stand point.

However the more I discuss about this, the more... wrong... it just seems for the Pokemon main series to be in movie format.

Welcome to the club, friend.

 

[shoz999]

Understandable.

On a different note... Snubbull from Detective Pikachu. He definitely looks bigger than his original depiction. I wonder what girls think of Detective Pikachu's Snubbull. I'm serious. What do girls think of pseudo-live-action Snubbull lol? According to it's Pokedex entry lol, Snubbull is apparently a popularly cute Pokemon with girls. I wonder where GameFreak got the idea for that. I mean I guess Snubbull is kind of adorable but it's live-action version. It's definitely hard to judge. It kind of looks like Snubbull but it also looks like a Muppet.

 

[Monster Guy]

A live action Netflix show would be better for an adaptation of the main games imo, but does Netflix have the budget for it?

 

[Prof. SALTY]

Understandable.

On a different note... Snubbull from Detective Pikachu. He definitely looks bigger than his original depiction. I wonder what girls think of Detective Pikachu's Snubbull. I'm serious. What do girls think of pseudo-live-action Snubbull lol? According to it's Pokedex entry lol, Snubbull is apparently a popularly cute Pokemon with girls. I wonder where GameFreak got the idea for that.

Like I said earlier... Very disappointing. The prop they showed earlier literally was like, my favourite design so far from the movie and then the model... Just doesn't even look like it.

 

[shoz999]

I am very tempted to put Snubbull's head as my avatar. Funny thing is. I looked for similar images for this photo and I got Manatee pictures lol. Although personally, I actually wouldn't mind if they decreased his size. He looks way too big, like the size of Granbull.