Dex Speculation/Discussion Thread [READ THE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES]

[MidnightFennekin]

I'm really curious and want to see whether Cyclone will return here to reply or not, after everyone pointed out the huge flaw in his genwunner-ish statement

Agreed. I wonder if he'll reappear with an army of genwunners? If you ask me, Honedge is much more creative than Charizard, which genwunners say is the best Pokemon ever? Lulz, it's NU, with Blastoise and Venusaur being UU and OU. You have to look at a Pokemon's basis, strenghs, movepools, e.t.c. Don't judge a book by its cover! >.<

Well, we do know that Honedge itself is 4.4 lbs.

So Honedge may have low defenses? :/ It's typing is a really good defense type... :/

 

[meismadatyou]

I kinda wish I could come to the Dex speculation forum and not read a whole page on someone being a genwunner, while I do dislike those who bash anything new before they experience it, this isn't the place to call him out on it in every single post.

Now I'll state my opinion on designs. I personally like every Pokemon's designs, cause whether you believe it or not, they are all original. They don't just put any old animal in these games, or object in some cases. I don't know about you, but I don't normally see a sword with a hand flying around, or a pile of garbage with a mouth and eyes trudging along. I also don't normally see dogs running around spitting fire from it's mouth. Anyway, all I have to say about people who don't like a Pokemon's design is, DEAL WITH IT. Don't use the Pokemon. No one is shoving it down your throat the way you shove your opinion down people's.

And finally, my dex speculation. So, I'm honestly hoping we get a Shield Pokemon to go with this Sword Pokemon, not necessarily to use them together, but so that we can have a really Powerful attacking sword and a really bulky defensive shield, I dunno it seems like a great idea to me. x) I hope we also get a few more ghost types, I always love the dex entries because they're really creepy. I have a feeling we won't be getting many more reveals from now on because Masuda seemed to be serious when he said he doesn't want to reveal too much before release. Oh well, I'm extremely satisfied with ALL the Pokemon released so far and I honestly CANNOT wait until October 12.

 

[jake279]

OK, I'm sick of everyone jumping on the defense whenever someone criticises an object-inspired pokemon. The argument that "old pokemon are based on items and you like those, so you have to like new ones too" is quite frankly ridiculous. That's like saying "one pokemon is based on a mammal so you have to like all pokemon based on mammals". It's not so much the fact that they are based on items, but the actual items themselves that they are based on. For example, Magneton is based on magnets, but it is a brilliant design and that's why people like it. Vanillite is based on an icecream and that's just not a good item to base a pokemon on. Plus, the final product was just not good. It's not a gen thing or a nostaligia thing. Litwik was good, whilst Brozong sucked, yet Brozong came first. Using other pokemon based on completely unrelated items to support your case is moronic. If people think the sword pokemon sucks the big one then they should be able to say that on a discussion board without a dozen people immediately dismissing them as wrong and stating the same weak argument over and over again in the process.

 

[jake279]

I kinda wish I could come to the Dex speculation forum and not read a whole page on someone being a genwunner, while I do dislike those who bash anything new before they experience it, this isn't the place to call him out on it in every single post.

Now I'll state my opinion on designs. I personally like every Pokemon's designs, cause whether you believe it or not, they are all original. They don't just put any old animal in these games, or object in some cases. I don't know about you, but I don't normally see a sword with a hand flying around, or a pile of garbage with a mouth and eyes trudging along. I also don't normally see dogs running around spitting fire from it's mouth. Anyway, all I have to say about people who don't like a Pokemon's design is, DEAL WITH IT. Don't use the Pokemon. No one is shoving it down your throat the way you shove your opinion down people's.

And finally, my dex speculation. So, I'm honestly hoping we get a Shield Pokemon to go with this Sword Pokemon, not necessarily to use them together, but so that we can have a really Powerful attacking sword and a really bulky defensive shield, I dunno it seems like a great idea to me. x) I hope we also get a few more ghost types, I always love the dex entries because they're really creepy. I have a feeling we won't be getting many more reveals from now on because Masuda seemed to be serious when he said he doesn't want to reveal too much before release. Oh well, I'm extremely satisfied with ALL the Pokemon released so far and I honestly CANNOT wait until October 12.

I find this statement ironic, and it's quite frankly the most hypocritical post I've read in a while. I've seen maybe 3 posts saying they do not like the pokemon, yet I've seen dozens and dozens of posts replying to those telling them they're wrong and should keep their mouths shut. Opinions are being shoved down people's throats, you're right. But it's not by the people who criticise the new pokemon, it's by those who tell them they're wrong and shouldn't state their opinion if it's negative.

 

[MidnightFennekin]

OK, I'm sick of everyone jumping on the defense whenever someone criticises an object-inspired pokemon. The argument that "old pokemon are based on items and you like those, so you have to like new ones too" is quite frankly ridiculous. That's like saying "one pokemon is based on a mammal so you have to like all pokemon based on mammals". It's not so much the fact that they are based on items, but the actual items themselves that they are based on. For example, Magneton is based on magnets, but it is a brilliant design and that's why people like it. Vanillite is based on an icecream and that's just not a good item to base a pokemon on. Plus, the final product was just not good. It's not a gen thing or a nostaligia thing. Litwik was good, whilst Brozong sucked, yet Brozong came first. Using other pokemon based on completely unrelated items to support your case is moronic. If people think the sword pokemon sucks the big one then they should be able to say that on a discussion board without a dozen people immediately dismissing them as wrong and stating the same weak argument over and over again in the process.

No, we jump to defense when someone makes fun of it just for being an object. Not for being a bad looking object. If you just think the design is horrible, we can't argue, that's your opinion. But if you make fun of it just for being an object, but like Magneton and friends, then you're a hypocrite.

And we don't say you have to like them. We just say consider the fact that you shouldn't hate it just for being an object. If you ask me, Honedge being simple/realistic is a nice break from all the cartoon-y Pokemon, such as Dragonite.

And you can't say the final product wasn't good. Your now forcing your opinion on us. The Ice Cream line is actually a favorite of mine, thank you very much.

Not just directed at you, you seem to be okay with some object Pokemon, like Litwick.

 

[KKS-Lapras]

I find this statement ironic, and it's quite frankly the most hypocritical post I've read in a while. I've seen maybe 3 posts saying they do not like the pokemon, yet I've seen dozens and dozens of posts replying to those telling them they're wrong and should keep their mouths shut. Opinions are being shoved down people's throats, you're right. But it's not by the people who criticise the new pokemon, it's by those who tell them they're wrong and shouldn't state their opinion if it's negative.

While I agree with you, that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, there is one issue I have with it. This generation, for whatever reason, seems to have the vast majority of people excited. Be it cool designs, type combinations, a new type, whatever, the general consensus has been positive. There are so many people that are coming off of Gen 5 that liked most of Gen 5's Pokemon, but didn't love them. They're looking to be excited. I personally have liked each Generation's Pokemon, I have my own reason's for being excited for Gen 6.

With that being said though, it's like people that constantly bash the Pokemon Anime, sick of Team Rocket, sick of the Pikachu reset, blah blah blah, yet they continue to watch the Anime. You see the contradiction? Many people here get frustrated with the negativity, especially when for most people here, we're getting the games, even the people that "hate Fairy-types and don't like certain designs". Why complain at the very beginning, when we know next nothing about these Pokemon.

I agree with the sentiment some of the others have expressed. You don't like something, don't use, but don't go on complaining how you don't like said something, it's not getting anywhere.

No, we jump to defense when someone makes fun of it just for being an object. Not for being a bad looking object. If you just think the design is horrible, we can't argue, that's your opinion. But if you make fun of it just for being an object, but like Magneton and friends, then you're a hypocrite.

And we don't say you have to like them. We just say consider the fact that you shouldn't hate it just for being an object. If you ask me, Honedge being simple/realistic is a nice break from all the cartoon-y Pokemon, such as Dragonite.

And you can't say the final product wasn't good. Your now forcing your opinion on us. The Ice Cream line is actually a favorite of mine, thank you very much.

Not just directed at you, you seem to be okay with some object Pokemon, like Litwick.

I agree this to. We've had object based Pokemon since Gen 1, so I don't see why it bothers people some much. A sword is a cool inspiration for a Pokemon, especially a Ghost-type.

 

[Coller23]

OK, I'm sick of everyone jumping on the defense whenever someone criticises an object-inspired pokemon. The argument that "old pokemon are based on items and you like those, so you have to like new ones too" is quite frankly ridiculous. That's like saying "one pokemon is based on a mammal so you have to like all pokemon based on mammals". It's not so much the fact that they are based on items, but the actual items themselves that they are based on. For example, Magneton is based on magnets, but it is a brilliant design and that's why people like it. Vanillite is based on an icecream and that's just not a good item to base a pokemon on. Plus, the final product was just not good. It's not a gen thing or a nostaligia thing. Litwik was good, whilst Brozong sucked, yet Brozong came first. Using other pokemon based on completely unrelated items to support your case is moronic. If people think the sword pokemon sucks the big one then they should be able to say that on a discussion board without a dozen people immediately dismissing them as wrong and stating the same weak argument over and over again in the process.

But that's not the issue here, if you dislike the design then go right ahead say it, it doesn't bother me. My problem is when people make stupid claims like " Oh what has Pokemon come to" "Or it looks like Gamefreak has run out of ideas". They're over dramatizing of one design choice that has been around since the beginning and has appeared in every gen especially the 1st and 5th gen and yet now people come out and play this "out of ideas" card 6 generations later just for one Pokemon out of over 100 possibly. Saying if you dislike something is fine. Nobody was jumping on people for that really. Stupid statements "Like what has Pokemon come to" directly aimed at a Pokemon design choice that been around since the beginning while completely ignoring every other object based Pokemon is dumb.

 

[KKS-Lapras]

But that's not the issue here, if you dislike the design then go right ahead say it, it doesn't bother me. My problem is when people make stupid claims like " Oh what has Pokemon come to" "Or it looks like Gamefreak has run out of ideas". They're over dramatizing of one design choice that has been around since the beginning and has appeared in every gen especially the 1st and 5th gen and yet now people come out and play this "out of ideas" card 6 generations later just for one Pokemon out of over 100 possibly. Saying if you dislike something is fine. Nobody was jumping on people for that really. Stupid statements "Like what has Pokemon come to" while completely ignoring every other object based Pokemon is dumb.

Especially when said object is more original the some of the past objects used. It's a cool inspiration, which is why I have a hard time getting what the big deal is.

 

[Pokemon1998Ash]

Honedge
It is now known that Honedge comes into Being when a departed Spirit Possesses a Sword that once Belonged to Humans. It can use the blue cloth Attached to its Hilt as Nimbly as an Arm. Pokémon Trainers who carelessly take this Blade in Hand may find the Blue Cloth wrapping itself around them and Draining their Energy! ~ Serebii.Net

Honedge is a Very Interesting Pokemon.
Having it based on a Sword with a Unique Typing(Steel/Ghost) was Something I Wasn't Expecting from Nintendo/GF at All.
I Find it Cool that it can Change Forms, Sheathing Form and Unsheathing Form if its in Battle. It will be Interesting to see its Ability, Hoping for Levitate.
One thing that I did Notice was that Honedge's Dex Entry seems like a Combination of Banette and Litwick's Dex Entry.

It might not, if it's based on a heavy sword and not one of those light ones.

It would be so beastly if it got Nasty Plot or Swords Dance.

Honedge's Only Move that is Known is Swords Dance.

 

[jake279]

No, we jump to defense when someone makes fun of it just for being an object. Not for being a bad looking object. If you just think the design is horrible, we can't argue, that's your opinion. But if you make fun of it just for being an object, but like Magneton and friends, then you're a hypocrite.

And we don't say you have to like them. We just say consider the fact that you shouldn't hate it just for being an object. If you ask me, Honedge being simple/realistic is a nice break from all the cartoon-y Pokemon, such as Dragonite.

And you can't say the final product wasn't good. Your now forcing your opinion on us. The Ice Cream line is actually a favorite of mine, thank you very much.

Not just directed at you, you seem to be okay with some object Pokemon, like Litwick.

Again, i disagree. It all comes down to the item the pokemon is based on. Personally, I don't really like the sword pokemon and it is for the fact that it is a sword. As far as sword pokemon go, it's not badly designed, but that doesn't change the fact that it is just a sword. Yes, old pokemon have been based on items, but those pokemon were turned into actual creatures that you can train. The Litwik line was based on lamps, but they were turned into actual creatures that looked alive. This sword pokemon doesn't look like a creature. It still just looks like an inanimate object. It doesn't look like a pokemon at all, it just looks like a picture of a sword.

 

[MidnightFennekin]

Again, i disagree. It all comes down to the item the pokemon is based on. Personally, I don't really like the sword pokemon and it is for the fact that it is a sword. As far as sword pokemon go, it's not badly designed, but that doesn't change the fact that it is just a sword. Yes, old pokemon have been based on items, but those pokemon were turned into actual creatures that you can train. The Litwik line was based on lamps, but they were turned into actual creatures that looked alive. This sword pokemon doesn't look like a creature. It still just looks like an inanimate object. It doesn't look like a pokemon at all, it just looks like a picture of a sword.

So your being a hypocrite again. For Magneton, you said it was designed good. But you dislike Honedge just for being a sword, not including design? I'd rather have a Sword than a Magnet.

 

[jake279]

So your being a hypocrite again. For Magneton, you said it was designed good. But you dislike Honedge just for being a sword, not including design? I'd rather have a Sword than a Magnet.

Because Magneton looks like a pokemon. Put it this way, if you were on a random site and you saw a picture of Honedge. There was absolutely zero information about it and you didn't know it was affiliated with pokemon in any way, it was just a random picture of a sword on a site. Would you look at it and think, that's a pokemon. That's a creature that is meant to be alive. Or would you just look at it and think, that's a picture of a sword? Honedge does not look like a pokemon. It does not look like an alive creature. It still just looks like a lifeless object. That's not "basing" a pokemon off a sword, that's simply drawing a sword and calling it a pokemon. There's a difference. Other item pokemon such as litwik, muk etc. don't look like that. you can tell that they are meant to be living creatures

 

[Mew The Gato]

Because Magneton looks like a pokemon. Put it this way, if you were on a random site and you saw a picture of Honedge. There was absolutely zero information about it and you didn't know it was affiliated with pokemon in any way, it was just a random picture of a sword on a site. Would you look at it and think, that's a pokemon. That's a creature that is meant to be alive. Or would you just look at it and think, that's a picture of a sword? Honedge does not look like a pokemon. It does not look like an alive creature. It still just looks like a lifeless object. That's not "basing" a pokemon off a sword, that's simply drawing a sword and calling it a pokemon. There's a difference. Other item pokemon such as litwik, muk etc. don't look like that. you can tell that they are meant to be living creatures

Well, there is nothing such as a stereotypical Pokemon appearance. Tell me what a Pokemon looks like, would you? I would be just as likely to recognize Honedge as Magneton in this situation. There are many franchises with monsters, you would probably not recognize ANY Pokemon in this situation.

 

[MidnightFennekin]

Because Magneton looks like a pokemon. Put it this way, if you were on a random site and you saw a picture of Honedge. There was absolutely zero information about it and you didn't know it was affiliated with pokemon in any way, it was just a random picture of a sword on a site. Would you look at it and think, that's a pokemon. That's a creature that is meant to be alive. Or would you just look at it and think, that's a picture of a sword? Honedge does not look like a pokemon. It does not look like an alive creature. It still just looks like a lifeless object. That's not "basing" a pokemon off a sword, that's simply drawing a sword and calling it a pokemon. There's a difference. Other item pokemon such as litwik, muk etc. don't look like that. you can tell that they are meant to be living creatures

Your grasping at straws. Can you tell me what a Pokemon looks like? There's no limit. I mean some animals don't look like animals. But they are. So yeeaaahhhh

GF could make a turd and still call it a Pokemon. Then it's a Pokemon. Got it?

Don't see ya complaining about Zekrom and Reshiram, that look much more complicated then your beloved Voltorb.

And I would guess. It's done in Sugimori style. The only works of his I know about is Pokemon.

 

[Sponge]

Because Magneton looks like a pokemon. Put it this way, if you were on a random site and you saw a picture of Honedge. There was absolutely zero information about it and you didn't know it was affiliated with pokemon in any way, it was just a random picture of a sword on a site. Would you look at it and think, that's a pokemon.

If I had no knowledge of Magneton and didn't know it was affiliated with pokemon. I wouldn't think it was a pokemon. Why would I? I wouldn't have a reason to believe they were connected. No more than I would think Honedge was connected to pokemon.

If game freak says "This is a pokemon" and it's not something that looks like it came from monster hunter with blood dripping from it's mouth. Then I'm happy to agree with them. They decide what a pokemon looks like, not me. My only job is to decide whether I like it or not.

What a pokemon looks like, isn't something static. It changes with every generation.

 

[jake279]

Well, there is nothing such as a stereotypical Pokemon appearance. Tell me what a Pokemon looks like, would you? I would be just as likely to recognize Honedge as Magneton in this situation. There are many franchises with monsters, you would probably not recognize ANY Pokemon in this situation.

Your grasping at straws. Can you tell me what a Pokemon looks like? There's no limit. I mean some animals don't look like animals. But they are. So yeeaaahhhh

GF could make a turd and still call it a Pokemon. Then it's a Pokemon. Got it?

Don't see ya complaining about Zekrom and Reshiram, that look much more complicated then your beloved Voltorb.

And I would guess. It's done in Sugimori style. The only works of his I know about is Pokemon.

You're both missing my point completely and being extremely arrogant about it at the same time. My point is, with other pokemon, you can tell instantly that they are meant to be living creatures, even if they're based off items. Muk, despite being nothing but a pile of sludge, you can tell that it's alive. Honedge does not have this quality. It simply looks like a picture of a sword. A completely lifeless, inanimate object. Not a creature you're supposed to train and interact with.

Also, not once have I mentioned Voltorb nor how intricate a pokemon's design is, so you can shove that argument. Your moronic arrogance astounds me. That's not what we were discussing at all.

 

[Ungoliath]

You're both missing my point completely and being extremely arrogant about it at the same time. My point is, with other pokemon, you can tell instantly that they are meant to be living creatures, even if they're based off items. Muk, despite being nothing but a pile of sludge, you can tell that it's alive. Honedge does not have this quality. It simply looks like a picture of a sword. A completely lifeless, inanimate object. Not a creature you're supposed to train and interact with.

Also, not once have I mentioned Voltorb nor how intricate a pokemon's design is, so you can shove that argument. Your moronic arrogance astounds me. That's not what we were discussing at all.

Still the point keeps being valid.
I mean...what defines a Pokemon? And thing is that Honedge has a moving arm, enough to feel it alive. And well, it levitates.

It's an uncommon design, but it has sense.

Because Magneton looks like a pokemon. Put it this way, if you were on a random site and you saw a picture of Honedge. There was absolutely zero information about it and you didn't know it was affiliated with pokemon in any way, it was just a random picture of a sword on a site. Would you look at it and think, that's a pokemon.

To be fair it would happen the same with Mr. Mime. Or Machamp. Or...Well, you get the point.

Pokemon has already many non-pokemon pokemons

 

[jake279]

If I had no knowledge of Magneton and didn't know it was affiliated with pokemon. I wouldn't think it was a pokemon. Why would I? I wouldn't have a reason to believe they were connected. No more than I would think Honedge was connected to pokemon.

If game freak says "This is a pokemon" and it's not something that looks like it came from monster hunter with blood dripping from it's mouth. Then I'm happy to agree with them. They decide what a pokemon looks like, not me. My only job is to decide whether I like it or not.

What a pokemon looks like, isn't something static. It changes with every generation.

Which is exactly how this discussion got started. Some people mentioned that they did not like the design and were met with a barrage of replies saying they were wrong and should keep their mouth shut if their opinion is anything but positive. People constantly saying that you should like new pokemon based on items simply because you like older ones is ridiculous. It depends completely on the item the pokemon is based on and the end design. That was my original point. Just because you like Magneton, doesn't mean you can't be critical of a sword pokemon or that you're wrong if you don't like it.

 

[KKS-Lapras]

You're both missing my point completely and being extremely arrogant about it at the same time. My point is, with other pokemon, you can tell instantly that they are meant to be living creatures, even if they're based off items. Muk, despite being nothing but a pile of sludge, you can tell that it's alive. Honedge does not have this quality. It simply looks like a picture of a sword. A completely lifeless, inanimate object. Not a creature you're supposed to train and interact with.

Also, not once have I mentioned Voltorb nor how intricate a pokemon's design is, so you can shove that argument. Your moronic arrogance astounds me. That's not what we were discussing at all.

I think you're missing their point, not the other way around. We've only seen brief pictures and live action shots of Honedge, so no real sense of how live or animated can truly be surmised, yet. Besides that, there are plently of Pokemon that you look at them and just because they look alive doesn't mean if you didn't already know they were officially a "Pokemon", that you'd believe or know they were in fact a Pokemon. Garbordor comes to mind as an example, people thought it was fake when it was first released. It's one thing to have an opinion, but to go as broad as to say, "that doesn't look like a Pokemon", it's just a very loose statement, and you opened yourself up to people trying to nail you down for it.

 

[Dragalge]

Honedge is an official Pokémon and always will be one no matter what people say or feel.

Moving on!