Diamond: Battle tower damage dealing team needs tips

[Bigheaded]

As you can see, very new here.

I've had a look around at the sticky and some of the other teams, which were rather impressive and well thought out. Mine isn't, although i must admit i don't like the idea of waiting out fights so they have to struggle. My aim is simply to kill asap.

I must admit at the moment i'm slightly lazy (for example i am NOT getting 31/31/31/31/31/31 IV pokemon, and getting 255/255 for EV's in most situations).

So i'm looking for a few tips on possible extras to my team (i've only just started on trading, and i do not have previous game since pokemon silver/gold (on old gameboy lol!). So don't suggest something like a latios, cos i won't get it.

Anyway the team:
First up (so top left), I "hope" i'll get one or two "lol"s from this one.

Yes i am actually using a Staraptor.
IV's: 8/31/30/14/24/30
EV's: 255 atk/255 speed.
Nature: Hardy (+/- nothing) (real shame! , adamant would make her a lot stronger)
Moveset:
Aerial Ace: (Very tempted to change this to giga impact, thoughts?)
U-Turn (a MAJOR part of this guy being first)
Close Combat (obvious really, works nice with U-Turn)
Brave Bird (obvious choice)
Item: Sky plate (found no reason to change this yet)
Ability: Intimidate (another reason why she's first up!)

It's aim is generally to OHKO the other guys first pokemon, if i don't deem this possible, i will either set it up for my next pokemon to kill, if i think the other pokemon is faster, then i'll normal switch, if not i'll get some damage out with U-Turn.

The Belly of the team:

IV's: 29/31/31/27/18/8
EV's: 55 HP, 100 Def, 100, Sp.D, 255 Sp.A
Relaxed (-speed, +def)
Moves:
Surf,
Hydro pump
Ice Beam
Body Slam
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb (also sucks, i wanted the critical nulling one, but the EV's were too good to say no to at the time, my first trained battler)

My third is a little interesting as i just simply wished to try it out, not particularly effective and not really a damage dealer. Looking to replace as not as effective as i'd hoped.
this REALLY REALLY should have been my jolteon/espeon, but i wanted to try him, and i wanted espeon to be +spA, not speed.

IV's: 27/12/31/30/30/30
EV's: 255 HP, ~240 in defense, mystery 15 EV's somewhere
Timid (-attack + speed)
Faint Attack,
Double Team,
Toxic,
Rest,
Item: Chesto berry (not lum as rest removes any other status's)
Ability: Synchronize (passes status change to opponent)

Obviously the idea is to get ~3-6 double teams out, use toxic, rest and finish double teaming then rest when needed. high hp/def/spD to try and not die.

Highest wins in row solo: 35
with the "noob" cpu partners: (starapter + lapras) ~ 30 (i think)

Pokemon currently adding to the list:
1. Arcanine, my first trade was a machoke for arcanine, really looking forward to this one. Currently IV + nature hunting for +attack and decent EV's all around.
2. Espeon + Jolteon. I prefer massive SP.A as i try and OHKO as much as i possibly can.
3. Ninjask, havent even started this project yet, but will be coming in.

I do have a few joke pokemon also:
Adamant 31 attack/31 speed dugtrio, aim is to simply OHKO both enemy pokemon with quake/rock slide in 2v2 fights. Not very effective but pretty funny. he has ~100 hp lol.
Leafeon with semi decent stats, high attack/speed. Aim is to use leaf blade + critical chance increasing item to mass critical hits.

Anyway, let me know what you think.
I reckon my lapras's moveset needs looking at,
for starapter, giga impact or aerial ace? or something else altogether?
What pokemon should i also be taking a look at? (looking to MOSTLY be using offensive attacks, very little defensive play) note that i do not have older games and trading can be difficult.
Any tips for the pokemon i am getting soonish? (arcanine/espeon/jolteon/ninjask)
Rate it?

My main problems are electric pokemon as umbreon isn't particularly resistant, lapras will survive one thunder usually. starapter is auto dead to any special attack really.
Very tempted to try a Skuntank instead of Umbreon for that build and use flamethrower as the offensive attack, rest stays the same (flamethrower to kill gay steel types easily, and to deal some decent damage to poison types)
Less weaknesses, but not quite so high defense stats.

 

[deoxysdude94]

Give return to Staraptor instead of aerial ace.
Give Lapras thunderbolt instead of hydro pump.
Give Umbreon Payback instead of faint attack. Payback does huge damage most of the time, as umbreon is slow.

Other than that, this team is pretty good. I see a few flaws, but that's normal.

 

[Bigheaded]

Give return to Staraptor instead of aerial ace.
Give Lapras thunderbolt instead of hydro pump.
Give Umbreon Payback instead of faint attack. Payback does huge damage most of the time, as umbreon is slow.

Other than that, this team is pretty good. I see a few flaws, but that's normal.

thanks for really fast response!
The first suggestion is what i've been thinking of for a long time, but what does it add? flying types DIE to ice beam as it's a stab. Good against water, but i have water absorb, this lapras has beaten ALL water types i've come against so far.
Isn't psychic a MUCH better choice than thunderbolt? as it gives me super effective against poison (not so useful but can be good!) and good against fighting, which i think lapras is seriously lacking. As switching to starapter isn't a great idea, as it still does 100% damage (150% with STAB) as it's normal type also and considering low hp IV and 0 IV's into defense/HP it can be risky.
Thoughts on psychic instead of thunderbolt?


Return is a good shout though, but it's going against what my intentions are for that staraptor atm. It simply needs to kill one pokemon, 1 for 1, where i think giga impact offers more use for that.


My umbreon is actually fast.
If you look carefully, you can see +speed from nature and 30 IV on it. 93 speed IMO isn't "slow" so payback is a 50% chance of a fail sometimes. I'm sure there is better stuff about than that.



anyway, thank you very much for your opinion and speed of response!

 

[foxyman1167]

First off, you have 2/3 weakness' to Fighting, Rock, and Electric, of which you have nothing to resist them.

The most important part of any Battle Tower team is Defensive Synergy
Here's an example. My Platinum Battle Tower team consisted of Latias, Suicune, and Scizor.

Latias Weakness': Bug, Dark, Dragon, Ice, Ghost
Resistances: Electric, Fire, Fighting, Grass, Ground, Water

Suicune Weakness': Electric, Grass
Resistances: Fire, Ice, Water, Steel

Scizor Weakness': Fire 4x
Resistances: Bug, Dark, Dragon, Grass, Ghost, Normal, Ice, Poison, Steel

As you can see, everyone's weakness is negated by a resistance from another team member.

Now in your case, for example, if a Lucario with Swords Dance comes in and sets up, you're done for, because the best you've got to cover him is Staraptor's Close Combat, but +2 anything from Lucario WILL HURT, even if its only neutral.

 

[Terry. T.]

If you want to go 1v1 then you're not going to do well. You need to make sure all of your team have synenergy so if things go wrong, all the team can take out at least 2 opponents, something like that anyway. You may need to check but at least heed all said advice.

 

[Bigheaded]

First off, you have 2/3 weakness' to Fighting, Rock, and Electric, of which you have nothing to resist them.

Now in your case, for example, if a Lucario with Swords Dance comes in and sets up, you're done for, because the best you've got to cover him is Staraptor's Close Combat, but +2 anything from Lucario WILL HURT, even if its only neutral.

I do very much agree about the types, although i was going to replace umbreon anyway. I am "currently" happy with the other two, although i am looking into all sorts of other pokemon now i've discovered smogon.

Still, this leaves a major weakness versus lightning still, with both weak to it.

Any suggested pokemon? Obviously it needs to be strong against electric, which very much suggests ground types. Perhaps even a garchomp?

Also, reasoning of thunderbolt over psychic or should i just take psychic? Also presume for this question that umbreon is not existant there.

To answer which areas of BT:
I am currently playing only 1v1's versus computers and the one with the random allies with their pokemon, where i generally ignore the girl in the corner as i HATE her playstyle. The main problem i keep facing is that they keep trying to heal my lapras instead of KO'ing the opponents. It's fine when it's surf but any other attack is just ARGH, just use your stab and we'd have won yesterday.


Thanks for all advice so far.


also noticed in my previous reply i said "first suggestion" when quite clearly it's the second suggestion he makes.


Also, is there any people who have done similar builds of dealing damage. Or at the very least, not using trickscarf and still getting 50+ wins?
For i surely cannot be the first one aiming for 100 wins without abusing the AI's stupidity. links to their pages?


A possible team with far more coverage:
Garchomp, Lapras, Jolteon.
Currently building the jolteon anyway. Haven't even got any prevolution of garchomp yet, and thoroughly dislike death by icebeam.
It also seems a bit more "common".

 

[Byzantine]

I got to 69 with a sweeping team, but getting to 100 has been done, it is simply harder.

(I used Starmie, Garchomp, Blissey)

 

[spuds4ever]

Keep aerial ace on staraptor. You need something to hit double-teamers.

 

[Terry. T.]

^You want to take them out before they use Double Team -.-

 

[Aura Sensei™]

Keep aerial ace on staraptor. You need something to hit double-teamers.

Totally agree,they are very annoying.

 

[Bigheaded]

On the aerial ace or not i'm not convinced either way yet on this.

For really, what isn't OHKO'd by my staraptor who uses double team? Considering that i am likely to change to choice band (+attack) brave bird/close combat or a return/giga impact (not decided between these two, although 90% accuracy in Battle Tower (lets presume i get ~70 wins) doesn't that get risky?)??

Although i'm still considering keeping it, as I must admit I have used aerial ace about twice through necessity in my ~100 or so battles, when lapras's attacks second and misses the double team user, so i switch to Staraptor, it uses toxic and some more double team and it dies in~ two aerial aces seeing staraptor's attack kicks major arse especially with STAB.



Any suggestions of pokemon to try?
i'm trying an arcanine, mostly because i want one (like lapras) just a favored pokemon with decent stats. Need a DECENT umbreon replacement strong against lightning really though, jolteon is my current choice (volt absorb).


PLEASE PLEASE do let me know if you've tried a sweeper build and had decent success, link to thread if possible? if no thread, what sort of pokemon you used and why? moves? strategy if needed?

 

[Aura Sensei™]

Salamence is better than Staraptor so:

Salamence Adamant Nature
Intimidate 252 EVS Attack 252 EVS Speed 6 EVS Hp

~Dragon Dance
~Earthquake/Dragon Claw
~Fire Fang/Rock Slide
~Aerial Ace

Stategy is simple,set up with DD,then sweep.The reason is because Sala is my favorite pokemon and he's beast.

 

[foxyman1167]

Salamence is better than Staraptor so:

Salamence Adamant Nature
Intimidate 252 EVS Attack 252 EVS Speed 6 EVS Hp

~Dragon Dance
~Dragon Dance
~Earthquake
~Roost/Fire Fang/Aerial Ace

Why you had Dragon Claw slashed and Aerial Ace wasn't, I'll never know. Dragon + Ground gets amazing coverage, Fire Fang or Aerial Ace in the last slot to fill in any gaps, or Roost to heal off damage taken while DDing.

Stategy is simple,set up with DD,then sweep.The reason is because Sala is my favorite pokemon and he's beast.

Comments in bold.

 

[Bigheaded]

Comments in bold.

presume you meant dragon claw instead of 2x dragon dance


not entirely sure about DD, i must admit that i am not really a fan of stat boosting moves which dont include def/spD, especially without some form of regen.
I would agree with your moves more than the other moveset probably something along the lines of:
Dragon dance,
Dragon claw,
Earthquake,
Roost,
OR without DD:
Aerial ace,
Dragon claw,
Earthquake,
one of the fangs.

Would have to trade for a bagon though as i currently don't own one.

 

[Terry. T.]

don't do Salamence, Raptor w/ Return or else.
fast Umbreon is just pointless, 93 speed is IVs and EVs wasted on what could be an amazing 'Mon. It's designed to be a tank so if you want a powerhouse, try:
Absol w/ Muscle Band/Life Orb
Adamant
252ATK, 252SPD, 6HP
Night Slash
Stone Edge
Earthquake
Psycho Cut?
I think this gives more coverage but you will want to check. Otherwise your team gets flawed by Umbreon.

 

[Bigheaded]

don't do Salamence, Raptor w/ Return or else.
fast Umbreon is just pointless, 93 speed is IVs and EVs wasted on what could be an amazing 'Mon. It's designed to be a tank so if you want a powerhouse, try:
Absol w/ Muscle Band/Life Orb
Adamant
252ATK, 252SPD, 6HP
Night Slash
Stone Edge
Earthquake
Psycho Cut?
I think this gives more coverage but you will want to check. Otherwise your team gets flawed by Umbreon.

i already posted my umbreon is flawed, the eevee was completely wasted when i decided umbreon for that.
No EV's were wasted (as far as i remember) on that umbreon. although i still have 15 EV's where i am unsure where they are.

anyway, any reason you're suggesting an absol? for the team was simply 3 pokemon with high base stats which i liked the look of. that was the basic start of my battle tower team and posted it to get some suggestions on one or two replacement pokemon.



Looking now to cover weaknesses, which if i'm using staraptor/lapras, i dont think absol would cover them (lightning is simply neutral, and he's bad versus fighting, where the best i have versus fighting is staraptor, which is good versus them, but hard to switch into a hard hitting fighting attack with)

 

[Terry. T.]

because it's flawed I suggest you change it. And if you don't like the idea of Absol then because most types are pre-covered, you could develop a new tank such as Metagross, which is already covered by the other two, and also sorts out your rock weakness which could prove a problem given that although Lapras beats Rock, it is also weak to Rock. To cover your lightning weakness, then you could try a Dugtrio possibly or maybe a fast Ground? Gliscor may be viable and it's no use saying Absol is neutral to Electric because Umbreon is also.

 

[Bigheaded]

because it's flawed I suggest you change it.

i had already posted in the first post this: "My third is a little interesting as i just simply wished to try it out, not particularly effective and not really a damage dealer. Looking to replace as not as effective as i'd hoped."
And my reply to you obviously wasn't clear enough. Just forget the umbreon exists

you could develop a new tank such as Metagross, which is already covered by the other two, and also sorts out your rock weakness which could prove a problem given that although Lapras beats Rock, it is also weak to Rock. To cover your lightning weakness, then you could try a Dugtrio possibly or maybe a fast Ground? Gliscor may be viable

Thanks for reminding me about rock

I've tried a high attack + EV dugtrio, but heck that thing dies WAY too fast. Might be worth trying a choice band on him though. I absolutely LOVE dugtrio but he's a bit too weak for the BT.
Gliscor could be good, i really hate quadruple weakness but lapras can be switched into for ice easily.
Metagross is also a possibility.

Garchomp is also an obvious choice, as it's "ok" versus rock as it will have quake and plenty of speed. will be great for lightning and "fine" for a switch into fighting if needed.
Claydol could be REALLY interesting also, being resistant to all 3! (rock, fighting, lightning), Has a weakness to grass which staraptor can deal with and lapras is "good" versus them. Ice: Lapras deals with, (probably be my main weakness really), water: lapras eats it, bug: either of the other two can tank that. Ghost/dark: i don't really think these will be a problem either.


So thoughts:
1. Lapras with psychic or thunderbolt or keep hydro pump? (has surf)
2. Claydol as replacement umbreon?
3. If you think Claydol would work, attacks? tempted to use cosmic power/rest/psychic/quake? with leftovers or something. Stealth rock worth considerring? probably not imo
4. if you dont think claydol is a good last member, for these two, who'd you choose?

Remember, the idea i am mostly after is for any of these pokemon to be able to kill at the very least one another with it.

 

[Aura Sensei™]

Claydol Adamant/Chesto Berry
~Earthquake
~Rest
~Zen Headbutt
~Rock Slide
There you go.And,everybody is just trying to help,so don't be mad at them.

 

[Bigheaded]

Claydol Adamant/Chesto Berry
~Earthquake
~Rest
~Zen Headbutt
~Rock Slide
There you go.And,everybody is just trying to help,so don't be mad at them.

I am not "mad" at all, i am very grateful for the advice. I just write things badly from time to time and what i mean is confused and read in a different manner on the other side.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.

About the abilities, i am a bit reluctant to use rock slide in 1v1 BT fights in case attacks miss and a problem is caused from it. Zen headbutt for the same reason. Would be a great moveset for the 2v2 fights though.

Item: Chesto berry/leftovers
with 100% accuracy attacks: (changing from SpA from atk isn't a problem as claydol has equal 70 each for those stats)
Earth power
Psychic
rest
Calm mind
EV's: 255 hp, 255 def
Nature: Bold (+Def -Atk)

With max IV's, projected stats:
HP: 167
Atk: doesnt matter.
Def: 172
SpA: 90
SpD:140
Spe: 95

Other possible moves:
Cosmic Power.
Ice beam is also a decent possibility.
Shadow ball could be used, but it's not particularly great (ghost/psychic coverage only)

Thanks for suggesting an ATK moveset also. As it's also worth considerring.

Will take me a decent amount of time to get one of those IV bred though.