cricketlaxwolvesbandy
Summoning...
This thread geez...
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Did Serena and Clemont even like each other?
- Thread starter divinepokemonXZ
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RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
Then just do it, because he is not the only one thinking that about Serena and amourshipping, and they are logically allowed to think that about her. That is better than treat every post disagreeing with your own vision a bait post of a troll user.
Sham
The Guardian of War
This one thinks that his opinion are the undeniable truth and if you don’t agree either you’re simply misinterpreting the scene and viewing it incorrectly, didn’t watch the show or you’re a troll. I don’t particularly agree with either one of them but it’s best just to exchange a few words with him and divest. You’ll be arguing in an eternal argument.
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Kazuniya
read/watch dungeon meshi
They could post mountains of evidence, but they will not, because there is nothing to post.
Compared to that, I have actually posted specific instances in the summer camp arc which 100% prove that Ash was not the sole/determining factor which led to Serena finding a goal or even realizing that she needs to find a goal.
It's a fact that Serena:
a) found Tripokalons because of Shauna
b) realized she needs to have a goal because of Shauna, Trevor, Tierno, etc.
While she was only with Ash, her mind was only focused on romance.
After meeting different trainers, she was actually able to grow and find her own path. Ash certainly didn't help her with that, because she spent good 40 episodes around Ash, and no big change or development happened to her. It was only in the summer camp that she managed to get some growth due to meeting Shauna and her friends.
I should also point out, factually, that Amourshipping had no influence whatsoever on Serena finding a goal. Literally none. It was all Shauna and her friends. Serena's crush on Ash existed side by side with her goal, but the two never meaningfully connected, and the crush never caused any character development for Serena. All of Serena's character development exclusively came from her Performer goal.
I will give you credit that Ash is the reason why Serena left her house in the first place (even though it's obvious she already wanted to leave due to Rhyhorn racing), but that's pretty much it.
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AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Yup. Everyone forgot about Clemintine.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
Ironic you're the one saying this
Getting back to the topic of this thread (after that whole Serena argument, jeez)
Brock and Dawn Definitely had more of a character interaction then Clemont and Serena. No it wasn't anything amazing which is why they are criticised too but not to that extent considering Brock did play a mentor role to BOTH ash and dawn, interacting with BOTH of them when it came to their dreams and advises. Go back to dawn's contest episodes and how Brock presided over them and gave dawn advice plenty of times. How in the ash dawn bickering episodes he played a mediator role. How him being the cook and taking care of the gang was more emphasized on then clemonts role. Heck in BW when Dawn returned she's the one to mention Brock and talk about the mentor role he played to the group. Like geez, "rose tainted glasses". So yea, using this to deflect the criticism is so stupid
Jeal
Well-Known Member
Brock was older and more experienced. Clemont wasn't. You can try to say that Brock and Dawn interacted way more than Clemont and Serena, but we both know it's not really true. Their interactions were basically the same.
Morax
King of heroes
He's blinded by nostalgia, don't bother.
I kind of get the feeling that a number of posters in this thread are taking the opening poster's post in a kind of bad faith. Especially the very notion that such an inquiry is "a stupid question."
This is what divinepokemonXZ is inquiring about, with the thread title "Did Serena and Clemont even like each other." It feels like more than a few misinterpreted the title as "Did Serena and Clemont hate each other." Not only is that a gross and borderline negligent misreading, divinepokemonXZ even goes out of the way to note that Serena and Clemont did not hate one another. Most of the more scathing posts read as if they assumed Serena and Clemont hating each other was the premise of the thread. Now, perhaps an even more evenly-toned title could have been something to the effect of "How close were Serena and Clemont as friends?", but regardless of that, the title and opening inquiry are sufficiently even-toned and tactfully sans malicious intent.
This is what divinepokemonXZ is inquiring about, with the thread title "Did Serena and Clemont even like each other." It feels like more than a few misinterpreted the title as "Did Serena and Clemont hate each other." Not only is that a gross and borderline negligent misreading, divinepokemonXZ even goes out of the way to note that Serena and Clemont did not hate one another. Most of the more scathing posts read as if they assumed Serena and Clemont hating each other was the premise of the thread. Now, perhaps an even more evenly-toned title could have been something to the effect of "How close were Serena and Clemont as friends?", but regardless of that, the title and opening inquiry are sufficiently even-toned and tactfully sans malicious intent.
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cricketlaxwolvesbandy
Summoning...
Yeah cuz whenever Serena’s name gets brought up WW3 ensues
Morax
King of heroes
She lives rent free in their heads
Power Up
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Have to wonder, did the mountains of evidence and arguments of basically every poster on PAD XY and SM fan alike (a miracle in itself) convince you that your argument that the # of submissions on sakugabooru doesn't equal animation quality get you to change your mind?
I'm sorry to everyone who wanted to see me post a massive treatise about the wonders of Serena and Ash's relationship(heavy sarcasm on the idea of people wanting an essay), but yeah, I'm not going to give air/take seriously " opinions " like
It's like arguing with a person who believes in flat earth or that climate change isn't real from a poster who has a history of bad faith.
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RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
The difference is that I don't treat people like trolls and I consider their opinions seriously
Power Up
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brb, going to debate flat earthers on facebook, not trolls at all and definitely worth taking their opinions seriously.
divinepokemonXZ
ALL HAIL THE GORILLA-FROG!
It is even worst with Misty TBH since at least people don't act like I committed every possible crime and sin at once when I criticize Koharu/Chloe.
Then again, I don't actually know how popular Koharu is compared to the other Pokegirls. Honestly, she was not really that sympathetic for the first few episodes she appeared in, but personally, I don't mind her now.
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
The difference is that the earth is not flat, and that is cientifically proved, unlike your own vision of Serena as "the best written character" and your own vision about Amourshipping and Ash's influence on her. And people requested you the evidence instead of just calling them troll people with bait posts.
Actually I see more criticism about Misty than in previous years, I guess we progressed a bit in that sense.
Power Up
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I'm sorry man, but statements like " While Serena was only with Ash, her mind was only focused on romance " are pretty much some of of the best examples of trollish posts and clear bait. It's pretty much directly analogous to flat earthism just for the pokemon anime.
Don't know how that is connected to my opinion that Serena is the best written character or that Ash had influence on her?
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
No, flat earthism is proved to be wrong cientifically, unlike that Serena's statement, and people requested you evidence of what you support instead of calling people troll making bait posts, but I guess they are right saying that if you can't post it, you don't have it
Power Up
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It's easy, yet time-consuming to objectively prove that such a statement is factually incorrect. And yes, for someone who generally despises objectivity in media and has extensively written about that in PAD , I'm perfectly comfortable saying that " opinions " like the one of the posters and others that I'm sure you agree with like " AmourShipping is the entirety of Serena's character " or that " The show only focused on AmourShipping with Serena " and statements of the sort are objectively wrong.
And yeah, you're right, I generally don't waste time writing ripostes for flat earthism. You're asking essentially asking me to look at every Serena and Ash interaction and detail the time the anime spent on the crush versus other aspects of the relationship.
If you want me citing evidence in this thread itself, please see the post I made about the conversation between Ash and Serena in episode 40. Sure, there was some subtext of Serena's crush in the conversation, but I'd say any fair and accurate perception of the conversation would involve people coming away seeing Serena talking to Ash about her problems, Ash providing advice, and Serena taking it to heart.
You don't have to find it particularly meaningful as I do, as that's subjective and other people have stated that they don't, but that's the reality of the conversation and you can generally apply that to most of the interactions between Ash and Serena in the anime.
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