Did Serena and Clemont even like each other?

[RafaSceptile]

It's easy, yet time-consuming to objectively prove that such a statement is factually incorrect. And yes, for someone who generally despises objectivity in media and has extensively written about that in PAD , I'm perfectly comfortable saying that " opinions " like the one of the posters and others that I'm sure you agree with like " AmourShipping is the entirety of Serena's character " or that " The show only focused on AmourShipping with Serena " and statements of the sort are objectively wrong.

And yeah, you're right, I generally don't waste time writing ripostes for flat earthism. You're asking essentially asking me to look at every Serena and Ash interaction and detail the time the anime spent on the crush versus other aspects of the relationship.

If you want me citing evidence in this thread itself, please see the post I made about the conversation between Ash and Serena in episode 40. Sure, there was some subtext of Serena's crush in the conversation, but I'd say any fair and accurate perception of the conversation would involve people coming away seeing Serena talking to Ash about her problems, Ash providing advice, and Serena taking it to heart.

You don't have to find it particularly meaningful as I do, as that's subjective and other people have stated that they don't, but that's the reality of the conversation and you can generally apply that to most of the interactions between Ash and Serena in the anime.

Yes, and Sham basically mentioned the problems with Serena as a character after that post

 

[Power Up]

Yes, and Sham basically mentioned the problems with Serena as a character after that post

Sham had a problem with too much of Serena's character being connected to Ash in general(hilariously directly contradictory to the other poster, but that's fine cause different opinions as they said themselves). It's a perfectly fine take that one can debate about. That's not analogous to AmourShipping and they didn't even make a point about it besides literally conceding that " Amour wasn't shoved down their throat as much as they thought. " What did they say there that runs contrary to what you replied to here?

 

[RafaSceptile]

Sham had a problem with too much of Serena's character being connected to Ash in general(hilariously directly contradictory to the other poster, but that's fine cause different opinions as they said themselves). It's a perfectly fine take that one can debate about. That's not analogous to AmourShipping and they didn't even make a point about it besides literally conceding that " Amour wasn't shoved down their throat as much as they thought. " What did they say there that runs contrary to what you replied to here?

No, the original statement about the discussion was that her relationship with Ash didn't provide anything valuable for her character, which is for the most part, true.
Again, you can't treat people like troll just because you don't agree with them and is not something cientifically proved.

 

[Power Up]

No, the original statement about the discussion was that her relationship with Ash didn't provide anything valuable for her character, which is for the most part, true.
Again, you can't treat people like troll just because you don't agree with them and is not something cientifically proved.

Uh, that isn't what Sham said? They literally said directly the opposite, that Ash influenced/was intertwined with Serena too much?

People shouldn't act like trolls then?

 

[RafaSceptile]

Uh, that isn't what Sham said? They literally said directly the opposite, that Ash influenced/was intertwined with Serena too much?

People shouldn't act like trolls then?

I said the original statement, not Sham's statement

People is not acting like trolls, you are assuming that they are because they don't agree with your own vision of Serena's character

 

[Power Up]

I said the original statement, not Sham's statement

People is not acting like trolls, you are assuming that they are because they don't agree with your own vision of Serena's character

Lol, so the statement from Kazuniya that AmourShipping had really no influence on Serena's goals and dreams is what you're talking about?

Yes, when people just regularly post objectively false information, I can pretty much safely say that's trolling. Did you see me call Sham a troll for their statements on Serena?

 

[RafaSceptile]

Lol, so the statement from Kazuniya that AmourShipping had really no influence on Serena's goals and dreams is what you're talking about?

Yes, when people just regularly post objectively false information, I can pretty much safely say that's trolling. Did you see me call Sham a troll for their statements on Serena?

Except is not false information, and he explained why is not, It is his own vision of Serena's character, and you having "the correct" (spoiler: it is not) vision doesn't make him a troll.

 

[Power Up]

Except is not false information, and he explained why is not, It is his own vision of Serena's character, and you having "the correct" (spoiler: it is not) vision doesn't make him a troll.

I want you to answer this as directly as you can. Do you think that " While she[Serena] was only with Ash, her mind was only focused on romance? "

If you agree with that statement, then I'm sorry to say, that's a " vision " or an " opinion " that is just wrong. I can't believe I have to say this, but facts do exist and there are many objective elements in the anime's script and Serena's character. Similarly, it's objectively wrong to say that Serena crushing on Ash was her entire character or that all she did was blush and get jealous around Ash.

But what I will grant you that it doesn't objectively mean he's a troll I guess? For sure, it's my opinion he's a troll.

 

[RafaSceptile]

I want you to answer this as directly as you can. Do you think that " While she[Serena] was only with Ash, her mind was only focused on romance? "

I'm sorry to say, that's a " vision " or an " opinion " that is just wrong. I can't believe I have to say this, but facts do exist and there are objective elements in the anime's script and Serena's character.

But what I will grant you that it doesn't objectively mean he's a troll I guess?

The "short" answer: No, but a lot of the time it was, which is why some people think Amourshipping and Ash himself were not an important part of Serena's character and people give to both too much credit for what they do (both of them). So it is actually not wrong, that's why is an opinion

 

[Power Up]

The "short" answer: No, but a lot of the time it was, which is why some people think Amourshipping and Ash himself were not an important part of Serena's character and people give to both too much credit for what they do (both of them). So it is actually not wrong, that's why is an opinion

Lol, maybe you're not understanding, but " opinions " can be incorrect. Your " opinion " or " perception " isn't some bulletproof shield you can just hide behind. His opinion right there is factually incorrect just like how flat earthists say they perceive or think that the Earth is flat is incorrect.

Man, maybe I should really just stop talking about detesting people using the word " objective " since the blurring of objectivity and subjectivity has just become part and parcel of discourse or at least take the other side a lot more.

 

[RafaSceptile]

Lol, maybe you're not understanding, but " opinions " can be incorrect. You're " opinion " or " perception " isn't some bulletproof shield you can just hide behind. His opinion right there is factually incorrect just like how flat earthists say they perceive or think that the Earth is flat is incorrect.

Man, maybe I should really just stop defending people using the word " objective " since the blurring of objectivity and subjectivity.

Yes, opinions can be incorrect, when they can be objectively proved, which is not the case apparently because they explained why they have that opinion and they requested evidence about what you defend, but instead they got a "lol you are troll bye".

If you want to say that your opinion is the correct one, then post the evidence, or not call people a troll just because you don't agree with them.

 

[Power Up]

Yes, opinions can be incorrect, when they can be objectively proved, which is not the case apparently because they explained why they have that opinion and they requested evidence about what you defend, but instead they got a "lol you are troll bye".

If you want to say that your opinion is the correct one, then post the evidence, or not call people a troll just because you don't agree with them.

Lol, so for that statement as I've already said:

You're asking essentially asking me to look at every Serena and Ash interaction and detail the time the anime spent on the crush versus other aspects of the relationship.

This is why I said it's pointless debating flat earthists. One has to explain too much science and fact.

 

[RafaSceptile]

Lol, so for that statement as I've already said:

This is why I said it's pointless debating flat earthists. One has to explain too much science and fact.

As I mentioned before, with the exception that flag earth is cientifically proved to be false, unlike your own vision of Serena's character, and having a different vision about her and amourshipping and her interactions with Ash doesn't make other people trolls.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Did Serena even like Bonnie?

 

[Power Up]

As I mentioned before, with the exception that flag earth is cientifically proved to be false, unlike your own vision of Serena's character, and having a different vision about her and amourshipping and her interactions with Ash doesn't make other people trolls.

Lol, buddy, believe whatever you want. It doesnt change reality.

Did Serena even like Bonnie?

Yeah, Serena only liked Ash. Just my opinion though.

 

[RafaSceptile]

Lol, buddy, believe whatever you want. It doesnt change reality.

Yeah, Serena only liked Ash. Just my opinion though.

Yes, I believe what I want (which is most of what Kazuniya mentioned), and again, what do you mention is not "objectively correct", and worse when you refuse to explain why and other people explain the reasons about their opinions.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Actually, thinking back, a majority of Serena's interactions with Ash were devoid of romance that you needed to squint really hard if her chest was beating faster, though of course the writers tried to sell they were an item through those (and Ash was written as the HERO of the region) solely because they talked too much while Serena's private interactions with Clemont...weren't there, so they simply were forced into being best friends without really showing it.

Serena: What do you think about Ash?
Clemont: I wish I was him.
Serena: You wish, but I respect your admiration for him.

Bonnie liked damn everyone because 5-year olds are devoid of malice.

 

[RafaSceptile]

Bonnie liked damn everyone because 5-year olds are devoid of malice.

She killed Lyssandre

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

She killed Lyssandre

She's 5. She can't tell when a critical hit has been dealt. She really thought all he'd get was getting clonked on the forehead.

 

[Power Up]

Yes, I believe what I want (which is most of what Kazuniya mentioned), and again, what do you mention is not "objectively correct", and worse when you refuse to explain why and other people explain the reasons about their opinions.

Lmao, as I said, ok buddy. And yes, it is objectively correct and is exactly why I wonder if people watched the show.

And yes, I already explained why. It's so incredibly grating to repeatedly post the same thing over and over again, but I literally used episode 40 as an example before and literally pointed it out that in that conversation between Ash and Serena, there was some subtext of Serena's crush, but in totality and for most of the conversation it's just about Serena talking to Ash about her problems, Ash providing advice, and Serena taking it to heart. Now I don't give two flying f*cks right now if you don't think it was a meaningful conversation as I literally stated to you, but that's the objective reality of the scene and is analogous of much of Serena and Ash's interactions in the anime. Subtext of romance and sometimes outright examples with blushing and jealousy is present, but not indicative of their entire relationship/interactions.

Is this really that hard to grasp?