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Did you like SM's version of Ash?

Kintaro

Banned
So as we all know the SM incarnation of Ash is very different both design wise and character wise from most previous Ash's. With this saga having over 112 eps aired and being almost over, I think it's safe to put the final verdict on this Ash since Gen 8 will probably drastically change him yet again.

Just curious what the general consensus here is, since opinion seems mixed elsewhere. Keep in mind I'm mostly asking about his personality/role in this saga, obviously battle-wise this Ash isn't that great, lol
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I liked him, in fact this is maybe the first series I considered Ash the main draw appeal, though maybe because I simply have a soft spot for those 'warm hearted kooks with a deceptively brilliant side' archetypes.

Ash felt very fallible in this series, the writers maybe overdid the whole slapstick butt monkey angle at times, but I don't specifically mind a character getting crapped on, I like an underdog who has foibles but can in some way still vindicate themselves (if anything I wanted more cases another character got 'loser' moments, not out of vitriol, I wanted more reason to sympathise with them, singling out Ash too often made some of them boring and over complacent). While a rather different take on him, I think SM Ash well personifies many traits fans start to relate to his tenure in the show, this nomadic over-enthusiastic weird kid who at face value fails at everything related to his goals but still somehow accomplishes everything else and comes off as strangely brilliant.

Ash has plenty of agency this series, like he can be put into nearly any episode and drive it in some amusing way, a far cry from his blander XY and even BW self. He doesn't even need to battle to be effective (though while his skills are underplayed this series, they're still decent enough to gather he's competent at it), we get eccentric moments of insight like him going Jane Goodall with some Passimian or playing host for a Morelull.

Ash also immersed pretty well into this series' universe, he had good chemistries with several of the students and worked as a catalyst character pretty well. I could argue the school should have felt like a far more important element to his role, but it was undeveloped all around so that's not as much his fault. I do like this was maybe the first series he had to significantly alter his direction rather than just do the same thing in a different backdrop. We see him get into situations he is completely out of his element in, like having to be more proactive for a companion with a serious problem or moments of being crafty which don't just concern strategising a battle. I love the humility with this Ash and yet still retaining the same optimism and willingness to give anything the old college try.

There are some downsides I admit, again the butt monkey/over the top deformed faces moments are a bit oversaturated while the school trials are undersaturated, along with his team and battle skills (though I do appreciate the level of legit training his team have done this series, maybe the one time legit earning a move has stayed on level with the number of plot armour moments). Also Ash has had odd moments of taking on traits or flaws for the sake of a plot that don't really stay consistent to his character (he REALLY shouldn't have to be taught to be more acceptant of a Pokemon leaving him, especially since even this series has been consistent with that element in other episodes). But overall I think the good far outweighs the bad, this Ash has been very charming and rounded, hopefully next series will fine tune the bugs that remain while keeping the improvements.
 
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Zhydra

Master of Chaos!
This Ash acts like a ten year old, has all the charm and goofiness of a ten year old, is there for pokemon and his human friends.

He is one of my favorite Ash's, with OS Ash being the only thing that beats him.
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
He's way better than BW and XY Ash, but not as good as OS-AG Ash imo.
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
It’s tolerable but I still think the exaggerated facial expressions and the constant “So cool!” moments from him is quite excessive IMO. I understand he’s a child and this is supposed to be targeted to kids but I still think he could be funny and energetic without being so extreme.
 

VoltTacklingPika

Well-Known Member
Yes, I like SM's take on Ash's character. I find him to be more entertaining this time than he usually is.

What they've done this time is give Ash a more diverse set of activities to interact with to draw out other aspects of his personality. By placing him in a school environment, we see how Ash behaves in class, the subjects that stimulate him and the tasks he struggles with. By putting him in a home environment with an adult figure (now two), we see how he acts at home on a day-to-day to basis. In a way, Sun and Moon grounds Ash. It's refreshing to see him in these types of scenarios instead of talking about battling or his next gym match all the time.

One of my favourite character moments in SM was Ash fretting over a school presentation simply because his mother would be watching. For me, this is how a child in school would behave. It's such a mundane problem yet is something incredibly relatable as I recall being nervous handing in school reports to my parents when I was a child. Here we have a character who we know to be fearless, headstrong, and willing to do anything for Pokemon, humbled by a mere school report and the prospect of disappointing his mother. It shows that Ash is not immune to having insecurities. It's weird to say, but I'm not used to seeing Ash in a position of weakness and I feel like I have a better understanding of him now that I've seen it.

I should add that things like this are more in line with my tastes. I don't like seeing Ash as just some action hero or someone who only really cares about where his next battle/challenge is because, well, it's boring. I much prefer watching Ash try to cheer a friend up because he felt partly responsible for her feeling down, or go out his way to give someone a Pokemon to make them feel appreciated, or actually offer to help make food instead of sitting at a table complaining about how hungry he is. I like that SM prioritises Ash as a person over how he is as a trainer.
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
Not really. IMO, early XY Ash is the perfect balance between funny and serious. He would often be a dork, acting reckless, being easily impressed by stuff like Clemont's inventions and Kalos itself, but when it was time for him to be serious, he acted seriously.

Honestly, people who say XY Ash had no personality must have not watched the same series as i did, because he displayed every single core aspect of his personality.

Of course, he wasn't as goofy as SM Ash, but not even OS Ash was this goofy and OS Ash matured a lot by the end of the series.
 

Agstrek

Member
Not really. IMO, early XY Ash is the perfect balance between funny and serious. He would often be a dork, acting reckless, being easily impressed by stuff like Clemont's inventions and Kalos itself, but when it was time for him to be serious, he acted seriously.

Honestly, people who say XY Ash had no personality must have not watched the same series as i did, because he displayed every single core aspect of his personality.

Of course, he wasn't as goofy as SM Ash, but not even OS Ash was this goofy and OS Ash matured a lot by the end of the series.

And why is being goofy considered immature? It's fine if you don't like SM Ash, but I don't see the point of comparing SM Ash to OS Ash here.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
OS Ash is better, but SM is the closest they've come back to his original character in years.

There are the obvious problems with BW Ash, the too-perfect XY Ash, and of course, the terrible DP version who accepts the absolute nonsense Cynthia spouts about "different training methods".

SM Ash gets to be competent and yet at the same time is capable of failing, or even just being unable to change things (e.g. Stoutland).
 

Dragalge

"Orange" Magical Girl
AG Ash did the balancing part the best! OS Ash was great too and I can let his incompetence at battling slide since he was a rookie until Johto came around (who got better in that department).

XY could have been like AG Ash as seen from the beginning buuuut that fell off the mountain as the series went on.

SM Ash has the personality part intact and it's good that he's still competent in battle. Not as competent as DP or XY of course but better than him bringing only one Pokemon to a gym battle! Could use more battles regardless though.
 

ash&charizardfan

Humans are tools
AG Ash did the balancing part the best! OS Ash was great too and I can let his incompetence at battling slide since he was a rookie until Johto came around (who got better in that department).

XY could have been like AG Ash as seen from the beginning buuuut that fell off the mountain as the series went on.

SM Ash has the personality part intact and it's good that he's still competent in battle. Not as competent as DP or XY of course but better than him bringing only one Pokemon to a gym battle! Could use more battles regardless though.

I give this comment 10/10 just perfectly explained points about all the versions of ash.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Not really. IMO, early XY Ash is the perfect balance between funny and serious. He would often be a dork, acting reckless, being easily impressed by stuff like Clemont's inventions and Kalos itself, but when it was time for him to be serious, he acted seriously.

Honestly, people who say XY Ash had no personality must have not watched the same series as i did, because he displayed every single core aspect of his personality.

Of course, he wasn't as goofy as SM Ash, but not even OS Ash was this goofy and OS Ash matured a lot by the end of the series.

Early XY was a bit better for comedy and emotions, but I guess the problem he still wasn't great for chemistries.

I like SM Ash for the nice variety of distinct interactions he can make with so many characters, being Kiawe's friendly rival, or Lillie's big brother type, or him and Sophocles just acting like a pair of usual boys. It feels like lots of characters get different emotions out of him.
 

HoundoomFan

shy shipper
He’s my second favorite ash, being OS my favorite. They brought back his childish tendencies without nerfing his trainer know how, & make him fail sometimes (though I do admit its sometimes too much). It’s something I missed from ash starting from Sinnoh... and Isshu ash didn’t act like a kid, but an idoit. XY(Z) ash sometimes acted like a child (not registering & trying to run on water), but it was extremely rare & usually got underused because he was the cliché shonnen male MC who everyone looked up to & was impressed with. & Sinnoh ash is worse in that regard, as all he is is nice & “mature”. What’s also nice is he actually sometimes plays with his Pokemon (usally just rockruff & pikachu as rowlett is always asleep & litten is too serious). While we see him bound with pokemon, we never really see him playing with them a lot.

Am I against mature ash? Kinda. If ash left in Sinnoh as a teenager being the Sinnoh champ (not e4 champ. Still have to have a goal to strive for) & visiting other places while running into the animes current mains & helping them develop as a trainer, I’d be fine with that. But it’s been obvious since Hoenn that he’s going to be forever the main character. It’s been obvious since the end of Sinnoh that he’s not allowed to be leauge champion. & it’s been obvious since ishu that he’s not aging. So what’s the point of him “maturing”?

Him being “mature” is boring, because he isn’t an interesting character nor much of a relatable one. And yes, it is annoying sometimes when ash acts like a kid, but that’s what you should expect... CUZ HE IS A KID. Also, OS ash is much more unuiqe as a character than in Sinnoh or Kalos. Because he isn’t always nice, sometimes snarky, & doesn’t always have his way & screws up badly makes him stand out from other shonnen male characters who are always nice, always right, & things mostly go their way (who are also big eaters & completely oblivious like ash). Would I rather have ash win & grow up & have a new main character? Yes! But obviously, that’s not going to happen.
 
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Epicocity

Well-Known Member
I have to wonder why people want Ash to be closer to his OS self. So many people complain of Ash's character never going anywhere and being repetitive, yet they also want him to be at his least developed state? I mean, what's so wrong with AG-DP-XY Ash who has been through, well, a journey. Should we really expect him to just be the exact same as he was in OS? He held the same qualities; his immature aspects were just toned down heavily, which is really to be expected.

As to the question in the topic at hand: not at all.

He feels like such a regression as both a trainer and a character in this series to the point I don't feel like I'm even watching Ash, something I felt even while watching BW and his increased idiocy. This Ash has had the wanderlust stripped from his veins with nary an explanation, he doesn't even seem to strive and improve until something pushes him in the direction of improving. Early on, at the very least, he also seemed quite a bit more selfish than usual, doing things for his classmates because he could get something out of it, or being dragged along to do it. Which, sure, is like OS Ash, but I don't view that as a good thing.

Likewise, he just seems a little more...childish? Some might view this as good, but when he's getting scared of Lycanroc's temper tantrum when a most gens he's willing to throw himself in the line of fire for his team...it makes me question.

His abilities as a trainer also have to be called into heavy question. Ever since AG at the latest, Ash has been lauded for his unorthodox and atypical strategies. We'll see a little bit of those here and there, but largely the battles don't come down to any strategy and instead "who uses the Z-Move last?" Doesn't help this portrayal when Ash dropping a Z-Crystal and taking his eyes off the battle led to his loss when just the series before he told Sawyer to never take your eyes off the battle or get distraught over something.

So yeah, SM Ash isn't even really Ash, to me, but rather whatever the episode of the day wants him to be, which is why I overall don't like the interpretation.
 
SM Ash is easily the worst interpretation of Ash for me at least. The entirety of SM is so pointless in the grand scheme of things I wonder if people really even care about Ash ever becoming a Pokemon Master. Ash has no central character. His personality depends entirely on the episode he is in, he lacks complete consistency, and doesn't even seem to care about his goals.

The show lacks a central plot and the characters can no way make up for that. SM makes itself out to be a character-driven show, yet how can it be considere good if it essentially has terrible characters?

Ash's gimicks and personality traits in SM by no means makes him a better character. He has no development in SM, he does not grow in anyway shape or form compared to his predecessor. Furthermore, his so called " flaws " are abrupt, useless bursts of stupidity which involve him either:

A. Getting crapped on
B. Out of character
C. Completly unnecessary

Call it due to hype-bait or whatever, but there's a clear cut reason why 2016 was the peak of forum discussion and the further broader anime community. Do you think SM can ever pull of 20k views on a pirated twitch streaming site?
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Call it due to hype-bait or whatever, but there's a clear cut reason why 2016 was the peak of forum discussion and the further broader anime community. Do you think SM can ever pull of 20k views on a pirated twitch streaming site?

In fairness that draw-in didn't exactly all end up a positive reception, did it?
 

VoltTacklingPika

Well-Known Member
I have to wonder why people want Ash to be closer to his OS self. So many people complain of Ash's character never going anywhere and being repetitive, yet they also want him to be at his least developed state? I mean, what's so wrong with AG-DP-XY Ash who has been through, well, a journey. Should we really expect him to just be the exact same as he was in OS? He held the same qualities; his immature aspects were just toned down heavily, which is really to be expected.

In fairness, nobody is saying that actively want OS Ash back, just that they thought he was a good character. Which he was.

Although, speaking for myself, the changes Ash undergoes from AG onwards aren't substantial enough to be of major interest. What's "wrong" with him is that his flaws aren't as prevalent or as interesting as they were at the beginning, nor does the narrative shine a light on any one part of his personality or background. For me, what contributes to the sense of fatigue around his character is that, for over a decade, he's been doing the same thing. Hence my appreciation for what SM has done, as it has at least tackled the character from a different perspective, even if it isn't a completely logical follow-on from XY.

Ash has no central character. His personality depends entirely on the episode he is in, he lacks complete consistency, and doesn't even seem to care about his goals.

So yeah, SM Ash isn't even really Ash, to me, but rather whatever the episode of the day wants him to be, which is why I overall don't like the interpretation.

I think you're both going to have provide examples of this, because I don't see this at all.

Ash's "central character" is the boy who loves Pokemon, which to me has been the case since day one, and is a fact which is consistent in every episode of Sun and Moon (and every episode of Pokemon, in general). He's excitable, curious, competitive, impulsive, hot-headed - all things which are consistent with the rest of the series. If he sees a Pokemon in need, he'll help them. If he sees a person in need, he'll help them. Hell, he even still loves battling and training his Pokemon.

What you also have to bare in mind is what Sun and Moon intends to be: a slice-of-life comedy. To that end, there are two distinct changes to the way Ash, and all characters, are handled. One is the exaggeration of expression, which is intended to make people laugh. The other is the variety of activities, which shows off the many attractions Alola has to offer on a day-to-day basis. You're not going to see a character full of wanderlust ever striving to better himself in an environment that embraces a slower-paced lifestyle and has no culture of competition.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
For as much as I don't like the Sun and Moon series, I really don't mind the Sun and Moon version of Ash that much. I don't like him nearly as much as Hoenn/Sinnoh, but he's acceptable. In the end, despite the increased focus on him being a joke, he's still Ash, for the most part, at least.

I don't much like his physical design, but that comes down to Sun and Moon's art-style and can't be helped.
 
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