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Digimon discussion - Digimon Ghost Game now available on Crunchyroll

lolipiece

Pictured: what browsing Serebii does to a person
Staff member
Moderator
It is entirely possible for a man and a woman to end just being friends, regardless of their sexualities.

Again, shipping in its proper section, please.

Chill, we all know that Tai eventually does get a haircut. :p At the time when he becomes a fully-grown adult as shown in the final episode of Digimon Adventure 02:

250

...Yes, that was what I was referring to.
 

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
Really, the one thing that bugged me about 02's ending was just how hilarious it was. Matt being an astronaut? I couldn't stop laughing! It's supposed to be cathartic with how these people get happy endings, but it comes off as more silly than the usual Digimon silly, especially with how everyone gets clone children.
 

Kutie Pie

"It is my destiny."
Just to get it off my chest very quick, Tai x Meiko doesn't make sense to me. It actually peeves me off a bit that she may have been created only to be paired up with Tai (if it's true) as it would explain her weak character. Seriously, what does Tai see in her that he'd be attracted to?

Really, the one thing that bugged me about 02's ending was just how hilarious it was. Matt being an astronaut? I couldn't stop laughing!

I'm getting this feeling the new movie may be taking influences from the scrapped third season (it being a reboot/alternate universe with them as adults is fucking stupid), which is where Matt deciding his future profession would've come into play instead of being slapped on as a throw-away line. This could be one of the reasons why Kakudou left because he may still have attachments to some of those ideas and he was hoping he'd get to tell them at last only for some higher-up to go "No, this person's idea is better", especially if it was behind his back.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Again, shipping in its proper section, please.
Um, isn't in this show it's pretty much canon? The writers literally made 2 pairs of the Digidestined pair up with each other at the end of 02. Matt and Sora; Ken and Yolei were literally shown to have married each other and they even had their own kids. 2 pairs of the Digidestined eventually does end up parired up with each other in this show, so, IMO it's pretty much part of the canon here.
Really, the one thing that bugged me about 02's ending was just how hilarious it was. Matt being an astronaut? I couldn't stop laughing! It's supposed to be cathartic with how these people get happy endings, but it comes off as more silly than the usual Digimon silly, especially with how everyone gets clone children.
What's worse was that in Matt's case, they even showed in several episodes of 02 that he was trying to become a rockstar/singer, and he even had a band of his own for the cause, and in the end in the end, he ends up.....being an astronaut, which is nothing short of laughable considering what they showed with Matt before. To the date I still wonder what on earth the writers were thinking there?? :confused::confused:

Regarding having clone kids...that didn't bother me that much since well....children does inherit the qualities of their parents many a times. One thing that was really satisfying about the ending of 02 was that we got to know the eventual predicament of the Digidestined from that, what they eventually become/end up in life, in that way I think that the ending of 02 was really fitting/satisfying.
 
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BCVM22

Well-Known Member
especially with how everyone gets clone children.

It is a beyond common trope of animation on both sides of the Pacific, that Junior looks like a miniature version of mom/dad. In part because... that's kinda how it works? Kids look like their parents. It's not really that silly.
 
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Astinus

Well-Known Member
What's worse was that in Matt's case, they even showed in several episodes of 02 that he was trying to become a rockstar/singer, and he even had a band of his own for the cause, and in the end in the end, he ends up.....being an astronaut, which is nothing short of laughable considering what they showed with Matt before. To the date I still wonder what on earth the writers were thinking there??
The majority of people don't stick with their teenage ambitions as they get older. Also, with Yamato, I would think that being in the public's eye would get rather annoying. He's a private person, as was seen in Revenge of Diaboromon, when the picture of his date with Sora became public. Yamato wants to keep to himself. While I don't know much about the music industry in Japan, the music groups that are most successful there have their faces everywhere on television. I don't think Yamato would be comfortable with that.

The information for it is in the background, but Yamato's a good fit for the military, as he would have to be to become an astronaut. He's athletic, smart, learns to work with a team, becomes a leader when needed... All good things to fit in with the military and to become an astronaut (to fit in with the "ALIENS" plot of the scrapped third season). Plus, maybe seeing the JSDF fight against the various Digimon that come to the human world helps Yamato make his decision to join, since he's used to fighting Digimon.
 

RileyXY1

Young Battle Trainer
I think that Matt becoming an astronaut was super strange. Everything up to that point was setting him up to become a musician.
 

Kutie Pie

"It is my destiny."
He's a private person, as was seen in Revenge of Diaboromon, when the picture of his date with Sora became public. Yamato wants to keep to himself. While I don't know much about the music industry in Japan, the music groups that are most successful there have their faces everywhere on television. I don't think Yamato would be comfortable with that.

It's possible the pressure to keep a "chaste, squeaky-clean" public image on top of being on a ridiculous schedule away from home wasn't something he would've liked while dating Sora, though I don't know how popular his band is to begin with. The band mostly did gigs, didn't look big enough to have been associated with a big record label.
 

lolipiece

Pictured: what browsing Serebii does to a person
Staff member
Moderator
Clearly the real reason he stopped being a musician was because everyone wouldn't stop laughing at his stupid band names.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Character wise if I had to rank the original Digidestined overall, the IMO it goes like:

Tai => Matt > Sora => Kari > T.K. > Izzy => Joe > Mimi.

This might be an unpopular opinion of mine, but I pretty much dislike Mimi as a character. She has a very obnoxious and annoying personality IMO, she tended to act indifferently and annoyingly with her friends whenever she was upset about something, like how she walked away crying from Izzy in the episode A Clue from the Digi Past when Izzy apparently 'ignored' her because he was too preoccupied during important work in his laptop. It is this attitude of her which I found hard to withstand. The episode which made me dislike her the most was Princess Karaoke. The way she acted like a spoiled brat throughout that episode was simply disgusting IMO, throwing her friends (including Palmon too) into the dungeons.....being totally preoccupied in her dreamy and fantasy world. I found it very hard to like her as a character after that episode. Granted, her kindliness and care she showed for some of her near and dear ones, and in some cases, showing care and kindliness for even foes when they are in a bad shape, ignoring the danger, are some of her redeeming qualities like how she asked Joe to give medical aid to the wounded Ogremon in the episode Etemon's Comeback Tour, and refusing to attack Digitamamon in the episode The Samurai of Sincerity despite the fact that Digitamamon was attacking them, because Digitamamon helped them once earlier in the episode, but that still doesn't overall fully redeem her character to be likeable IMO. Especially taking into account how annoyingly and indifferently she acted towards her friends in some episodes of Digimon Adventure early on, like the examples I mentioned already above, whenever she was upset or too preoccupied in her own fantasy world. So overall she is my least favourite character among the original Digidestined.
 
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lemoncatpower

Cynical Optimist
Character wise if I had to rank the original Digidestined overall, the IMO it goes like:

Tai => Matt > Sora => Kari > T.K. > Izzy => Joe > Mimi.

This might be an unpopular opinion of mine, but I pretty much dislike Mimi as a character. She has a very obnoxious and annoying personality IMO, she tended to act indifferently and annoyingly with her friends whenever she was upset about something, like how she walked away crying from Izzy in the episode A Clue from the Digi Past when Izzy apparently 'ignored' her because he was too preoccupied during important work in his laptop. It is this attitude of her which I found hard to withstand. The episode which made me dislike her the most was Princess Karaoke. The way she acted like a spoiled brat throughout that episode was simply disgusting IMO, throwing her friends (including Palmon too) into the dungeons.....being totally preoccupied in her dreamy and fantasy world. I found it very hard to like her as a character after that episode. Granted, her kindliness and care she showed for some of her near and dear ones, and in some cases, showing care and kindliness for even foes when they are in a bad shape, ignoring the danger, are some of her redeeming qualities like how she asked Joe to give medical aid to the wounded Ogremon in the episode Etemon's Comeback Tour, and refusing to attack Digitamamon in the episode The Samurai of Sincerity despite the fact that Digitamamon was attacking them, because Digitamamon helped them once earlier the episode, but that still doesn't overall fully redeem her character to be likeable IMO. Especially taking into account how annoyingly and indifferently she acted towards her friends in some episodes of Digimon Adventure early on, like the examples I mentioned already above, whenever she was upset or too preoccupied in her own fantasy world. So overall she is my least favourite character among the original Digidestined.
Ah I have to disagree with you, I loved Mimi as the most fallible character. Her and palmon made such a nice team with their contrasts and similarities, not to mention I can be a bit impulsive like Mimi so I may be a bit biased :p But that's what I love about the digidestined, all the different personalities to relate with.

As far as the astronaut for Matt goes, I just don't see Matt actually studying that much, being that particular in his studies either, and if Joe has a hard time getting into med school, I do NOT see Matt getting into astro physics... but it's a story in the end and anything can happen :p But honestly a Laywer would have been better for him lol.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Ah I have to disagree with you, I loved Mimi as the most fallible character. Her and palmon made such a nice team with their contrasts and similarities, not to mention I can be a bit impulsive like Mimi so I may be a bit biased :p But that's what I love about the digidestined, all the different personalities to relate with.
Yeah, she was impulsive and fallible, but the way she sometimes annoyingly overreacted due to her impulsiveness was just a bit too much and a bit hard to justify. How do you honestly justify her actions in the episode Princess Karaoke, the way she, being too preoccupied in her fantasy world, threw her own friends, including Palmon, into the dungeons, after all they have been through together? That was a bit too hard to digest for me TBH.

As far as the astronaut for Matt goes, I just don't see Matt actually studying that much, being that particular in his studies either, and if Joe has a hard time getting into med school, I do NOT see Matt getting into astro physics... but it's a story in the end and anything can happen :p But honestly a Laywer would have been better for him lol.
Yeah TBH till date I wonder what drugs the writers were actually on when they decide to make Matt an astronaut as a grown up. :p:p
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
But Sora was already action-y, while Mimi started off entirely out of her element due to her pampered/sheltered upbringing. Her growth as a character was connected essentially only to herself, whereas every other character had external influences (Tai has what happened when Kari was little, Matt and T.K. have separated parents and live separately, Joe has his dad's wishes weighing him down, Sora's parents are separated (I think? Or divorced, maybe), and Izzy is afraid his parents don't actually love him).
So basically you're blaming Mimi's upbringing, a.k.a. her sheltered upbringing and comfort her parents gave since her birth, right? That still doesn't change the issue that she indeed acted in a very obnoxious and annoying manner in some episodes of Digimon adventure early on.

Like let's take the example in the episode A Clue from the Digi Past. She became upset on Izzy and ran away from him throwing a tantrum, creating a temporary divide between themselves, because of what? Because apparently Izzy 'ignored' her as he was a bit occupied doing important work in his laptop. Seriously, acting this upset and creating a rift with your friend over such a trivial issue? Looks really annoying IMO, it's plain overreacting.

And then let's take the example of how Mimi acted in the episode Princess Karaoke which makes me dislike her the most. Being too pre-occupied in the comfort of her fantasy-princess world, she act like a total spoiled brat and even throws her friends (including her own Digimon Palmon too) into the dungeons. Seriously, so much pre-occupied in your world of fantasy and comfort that you throw your own friends and Digimon into the dungeons?? I really found that disgusting and hard to justify, it made me really dislike her as a character.

Now if your point is that: she was initially out of her element because of her upbringing, and her character development was entirely was entirely to herself, one question arises. That after going through many adventures and character development, does Mimi really redeem herself later on as a character later on? Somewhat, but not totally IMO. Her redeeming qualities are her kindness and care she showed later on for his near and dear ones later on, and sometimes, showing kindness to her foes as well when they are in a bad shape, defying the danger. Like how she told Joe to give medical attention to the wounded Ogremon in the episode Etemon's Comeback Tour, despite knowing that Ogremon is an enemy. Like how she refused and prevented everyone from attacking Digitamamon in the episode The Samurai of Sincerity in Digimon Adventure 02, despite the fact that Digitamamon was constantly attacking them (actually was under the influence of a Dark Spiral), because Digitamamon helped them once earlier in the episode, and also took a hit from Digitamamon in the process. While this level of kindness and care that she sometimes even cares for her foes as well, defying the danger, is an admirable quality, it sort of also looks a bit silly and forced as well. Because showing kindness to a foe, aside from being a part of one's selflessness and greatness, in also on the other hand, showing deliberate ignorance to the impeding danger that lies in front because of that, showing kindness to foe can always be dangerous after all.

Analyzing all these, I'll say that though Mimi had her redeeming moments later on after going through character development, those moments still have their holes like I mentioned above and doesn't quite completely make up for how annoying and obnoxious she was earlier in some episode, especially throwing her friends and her own Digimon into the dungeons in one episode.

In Sora's case, I find her a really likeable character because she's really the opposite of Mimi in some cases: like when she's upset about something, she sombrely and quietly isolates herself from her friends, while still helping her friends in the process, as opposed to Mimi who tends to act indifferently towards her friends whenever she's upset. When she felt that the "Crest of Love" wasn't really meant for her because she thought no one really loved her, due to a previous incident where her mother prevented her from going play in a soccer match, you can see that she never acted indifferently towards her friends, rather she still kept helping her friends at crucial times quitely despite sombrely and quitely isolating herself. This is what makes me like her so much as a character, always caring about her friends, upset or not. Plus the moments when she expressed her love, concern and care for her near and dear ones whenever they were in grave danger or so, felt so much heart-touching and genuine, it made me genuinely love her character. The reason mainly why I rank her as the best female character among the original Digidestined.

Also, Ophanimon Fall down Mode is best Digimon. Also has best name.
Fine if you think so, opinions. :) I just don't find a Digimon cooler than Wargreymon.
 
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Kutie Pie

"It is my destiny."
I feel like a lot of Mimi hate is because of the dub. As someone who likes the dub, Mimi is one of my least-favorite characters in the show because of how shrilly and flip-floppy she could get. Philece Sampler had to really grow on me as a voice actress because something about Mimi just didn't work like it did in the original. Now could it be because of the dub scriptwriters changing things up? Perhaps, especially since her Crest of Purity became Crest of Sincerity, which is what Joe's was in the original. But "sincerity" in the original is a bit more difficult to define in English, thus why his became "Reliability". It's the same with "Purity", but since Mimi tends to speak her mind while having good intentions (for the most part) and "purity" has a different connotation in English, hers therefore became "Sincerity" in the dub. Either way, Mimi was one of the most childish of the DigiDestined, and she grew up a lot and became a completely different person by the end of those 54 episodes.

Oddly enough, Mimi became one of my favorite characters in Tri, and she is much better in the dub than she was in the TV series. This could just be a result of her eccentricity due to her upbringing in America and she was experiencing her own culture shock (in her home-country) in a Japanese high school where speaking your mind goes against collectivism, and so she nearly isolated herself. It's great she still managed to stay true to her character despite it, but Tri never did follow up on it because "Welp, her time in the spotlight's done. Now how can we squander Izzy Koushiro's character in the next film?"

Meanwhile, despite Kari being my favorite DigiDstined, she became one of my least-favorites because why the hell can't anyone do anything with her? She could've had a lot of importance in Tri, but they downplayed her a lot to the point when the last bit of Tri came about, it still didn't mean anything. (Also her comment about how she's not fully upset that Gatomon lost her memories because it meant forgetting about her abusive past ticked me off. Like yes, abuse is traumatic, but Gatomon came out of it a stronger character and she defined herself to be a protector. Her losing her memories meant losing herself, which you'd think Kari would've understood completely as her life partner, and Tri got on my shit-list for it for nearly canonically killing off a character to replace her for their own shallow interpretation. Seriously, the memory-erasing drama bullshit could've been done well, but it's like the writers forgot about it because if it wasn't for someone vocally bringing it up, I kept forgetting the Digimon lost their memories because they still acted the same. Gabumon's monologue to Matt at the end of the last part didn't make sense as a result because that's what the Gabumon who's known Matt inside-and-out for six years would say--which sucks because that was an amazing declaration of love and loyalty.)

Fine if you think so, opinions. :) I just don't find a Digimon cooler than Wargreymon.

The idea of Ophanimon Falldown Mode is cool, but once again, Tri had to fuck it up.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
I feel like a lot of Mimi hate is because of the dub. As someone who likes the dub, Mimi is one of my least-favorite characters in the show because of how shrilly and flip-floppy she could get. Philece Sampler had to really grow on me as a voice actress because something about Mimi just didn't work like it did in the original. Now could it be because of the dub scriptwriters changing things up? Perhaps, especially since her Crest of Purity became Crest of Sincerity, which is what Joe's was in the original. But "sincerity" in the original is a bit more difficult to define in English, thus why his became "Reliability". It's the same with "Purity", but since Mimi tends to speak her mind while having good intentions (for the most part) and "purity" has a different connotation in English, hers therefore became "Sincerity" in the dub. Either way, Mimi was one of the most childish of the DigiDestined, and she grew up a lot and became a completely different person by the end of those 54 episodes.

Oddly enough, Mimi became one of my favorite characters in Tri, and she is much better in the dub than she was in the TV series. This could just be a result of her eccentricity due to her upbringing in America and she was experiencing her own culture shock (in her home-country) in a Japanese high school where speaking your mind goes against collectivism, and so she nearly isolated herself. It's great she still managed to stay true to her character despite it, but Tri never did follow up on it because "Welp, her time in the spotlight's done. Now how can we squander Izzy Koushiro's character in the next film?"

Meanwhile, despite Kari being my favorite DigiDstined, she became one of my least-favorites because why the hell can't anyone do anything with her? She could've had a lot of importance in Tri, but they downplayed her a lot to the point when the last bit of Tri came about, it still didn't mean anything. (Also her comment about how she's not fully upset that Gatomon lost her memories because it meant forgetting about her abusive past ticked me off. Like yes, abuse is traumatic, but Gatomon came out of it a stronger character and she defined herself to be a protector. Her losing her memories meant losing herself, which you'd think Kari would've understood completely as her life partner, and Tri got on my shit-list for it for nearly canonically killing off a character to replace her for their own shallow interpretation. Seriously, the memory-erasing drama bullshit could've been done well, but it's like the writers forgot about it because if it wasn't for someone vocally bringing it up, I kept forgetting the Digimon lost their memories because they still acted the same. Gabumon's monologue to Matt at the end of the last part didn't make sense as a result because that's what the Gabumon who's known Matt inside-and-out for six years would say--which sucks because that was an amazing declaration of love and loyalty.)
So you're basically saying that the dub changed a lot of things which made things look worse? I haven't watched the sub yet, but nah man, I'm not buying it. It's clearly evident that she did still walk away crying being upset because Izzy apparently 'ignored' her being too preoccupied doing important stuff in his laptop. It's still clearly evident that she definitely did lock up her own friends and her own Digimon Palmon being too much preoccupied in her princess/fantasy world of comfort. She definitely did those stuff, dub or not, as it seemed like.
 
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Kutie Pie

"It is my destiny."
So you're basically saying that the dub changed a lot of things which made things look worse? I haven't watched the sub yet, but nah man, I'm not buying it. It's clearly evident that she did still walk away crying being upset because Izzy apparently 'ignored' her being too preoccupied doing important stuff in his laptop. It's still clearly evident that definitely did lock up her own friends and her own Digimon Palmon being too much preoccupied in her princess/fantasy world of comfort. She definitely did those stuff, dub or not, as it seemed like.

Of course she did all that, not denying it at all, but a lot of her dialogue is very childish and "Ooooh I'm so rich and girly and love pink, pay attention to me!!" in the dub. That, and her shrilly voice. There's more to the hate toward Mimi than just those two instances, and most of it comes from those who've seen the dub, but that's what I've personally noticed rewatching it over the years.
 

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
I’ve been rewatching 02 and I can see the creative differences bleeding off the screen because after the Emperor Arc, everything feels like it was written by two different teams with different visions. Seriously, what happened to Daemon and Dagomon? I thought Tri. would fix these but nope.
 

Kutie Pie

"It is my destiny."
I’ve been rewatching 02 and I can see the creative differences bleeding off the screen because after the Emperor Arc, everything feels like it was written by two different teams with different visions.

It literally was. They weren't communicating with each other and couldn't come to compromises, and the results were messy at best.

Seriously, what happened to Daemon and Dagomon? I thought Tri. would fix these but nope.

Who the hell knows, they chose to instead tell the audience "fuck you" with a cheeky wink and nod. Because that's much easier to write.
 

Victorian Rush

Weather Manipulator
I’m glad I’m not the only person who thinks Matt becoming an astronaut is extremely weird. Most of season two, he was a musician. They even seem to have a relatively big following and he decides to give up his band to become an astronaut? Like what? That made no sense.

Meanwhile, they stuck to Davis’s dream of opening his own noodle cart? That is weird.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
I’ve been rewatching 02 and I can see the creative differences bleeding off the screen because after the Emperor Arc, everything feels like it was written by two different teams with different visions. Seriously, what happened to Daemon and Dagomon? I thought Tri. would fix these but nope.
Nothing feels more weird than Ken's all-of-a-sudden 180% change from a malicious Emperor to a caring, humble and kind guy. No matter whatever reasons they gave for it regarding that matter, it felt a bit too hard to digest and forced. Gatomon's change was still believable as she wasn't shown as evil and malicious for as long time as Ken was.
 
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