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Ditto (Uber Edition)

TrollFreak

Pit is Awesome :P
Ditto

132.gif

48 HP / 48 Atk / 48 Def / 48 SpA / 48 SpD / 48 Spe

Well, when you think of Ditto, you think of what is arguably the best revenge killer in Pokemon. Thanks to Imposter, it copies the stats boosts of the Pokemon it transforms into, meaning that boosting may not be safe anymore. While it can't sweep a team outright, it is still very viable in Ubers. It can even copy into something like Forry or Ferro and set up entry hazards, meaning that having a Pokemon that has Stealth Rock on a team isn't even necessary anymore. Change its IVs to get a Hidden Power, can it handles that as well. While Ditto may not be broken enough to be banned in OU, can it still have an effect on the Ubers metagame. Is there a method on stopping Ditto? Will this blob effect how teams are now made? Discuss anything you want but remember to always enjoy the discussion! (so long as they're in the Uber rules)


[SET] (Credit to Harsha)
~ Transform
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Imposter
nature: Relaxed
evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
ivs: 30 Atk / 30 Def

This is Ditto's best, and only, set in the Uber metagame. With Imposter, Ditto automatically transforms into the opponent upon being sent into battle. Ditto has a bit of a four-moveslot syndrome, so choosing the correct move is imperative... Well, not really. If anything, Ditto has a one-moveslot syndrome. In fact, the only reason Ditto has a move is because without it, one would not be able to use Ditto. Still, Transform adds nothing to Ditto's utility, as Imposter accomplishes what Ditto would already do with Transform, though Transform does not copy stat boosts and wastes a turn.

Ditto should only be sent out against Pokemon that one wants to revenge kill, as that is Ditto's most effective role. This holds especially true against setup sweepers that have already acquired multiple boosts, as it simply makes Ditto more deadly. However, as always, one should never send Ditto out against an opponent that has a Substitute up, as Ditto cannot transform into a Pokemon behind a Substitute and will simply become dead weight.

Ditto's EVs are nearly useless in all situations except the very rare case where one's opponent sends Ditto out on the same turn that one's own Ditto is sent out. In this case, neither Ditto will transform, and a stall war will ensue. Thus, one wants to have the slower Ditto, as it will use Struggle after the opponent receives recoil damage, giving it an advantage. However, Ditto copies the stats of any other Pokemon that it transforms into, so the EVs serve no further purpose. Ditto does not, however, copy the opponent's IVs, so one should make sure that Ditto's IVs are set for the Hidden Power of choice. Using 30 Attack and 30 Defense IVs gives Ditto Hidden Power Ice, a good move for all-around coverage. 30 Atk, SpA, and Spe IVs can be used for Fire, as it hits Ferrothorn, Forry, and Skarm.

Ditto is a unique Pokemon, so it is only natural that it should be used differently than other Pokemon. Ditto should absolutely never be used as a lead or sent out to sponge a hit; these simply ruin its purpose. Instead, Ditto can be used to take on setup sweepers after they nab a KO, or simply revenge kill opposing threats. This puts Ditto users in a dilemma: what move should be used? As a general rule of thumb, Ditto should use a move that will allow it to stay in and do as much damage as possible. However, should Ditto be presented with an immediate threat that must be taken out, using the appropriate move and switching out will usually suffice.

Ditto is also useful for scouting opponents' movesets, as it copies every move. For example, sending Ditto out against Deoxys-S seems like a bad idea for the most part, but this actually allows you to learn whether or not Deoxys-S is an offensive variant or not. Similarly, one can scout setup sweepers in order to react appropriately and wall them, or to scout versatile Pokemon to learn how to stop them.
 

Zachmac

Well-Known Member
Ditto plays the exact same way in every tier, so I don't understand why you'd need to make an uber edition.....all your really saying is that it can work in Ubers to.

Honestly, I think just making a plain ditto discussion would probably of been a better idea. It doesn't really matter if it's ubers or not, nothing about that thing changes. Even the way it fights and predicts....
 

TrollFreak

Pit is Awesome :P
Well, instead of complaining, why not discuss it in other tiers then :)
 

OceanicLanturn

Non non non!
It works the same in every tiers... Except with different threats. I think one of the best counters is Zoroark, so maybe it's good to steer away from UU or something?

*looks at Smogon's Ditto Analysis*
Hmm... Good NU and onwards...
 
Run full HP on Ditto. Always. Since HP is the only stat that Ditto keeps when it Tranforms, you want to have as much as possible. Having 248 HP EVs only really helps if you switch in on 3 layers of Spikes multiple times, which shouldn't happen if you have a spinner. I'd also run Relaxed nature with minimum speed, since this will help ensure that you're opponent Struggles first in a Ditto war, which increases your chance of coming out alive.

As far as Ditto in the Ubers environment, I actually haven't been that impressed in the brief time that I've used it. The popularity of some Calm Mind users, such as the different CM Arceus variants, really hurts Ditto's chances. It's also important to remember that Ubers is full not only of offensive monsters, but defensive behemoths as well. For example, you might Transform into a Blaziken only to be threatened by a Giratina, Lugia, or Kyorge, depending on which STAB you decide to lock yourself into. You might also Transform into DD Rayquaza, only to either be killed off by Steel Arceus if you decide to spam Outrage or smacked down miserably by Giratina-O if you try Overheat or Earthquake. It's not that Ditto is bad, but I do think that it has a hard time taking advantage of opposing Uber sweepers.
 

Ghosts of the Forums

Who Ya Gonna Call?
ditto war made me lol.

but seriously, ditto is great in any tier bar lc. you just need to know when to send him in. and, if you sac a poke against a plus four volc w/o a sub, ditto could 6-o the other team right there.
 

TrollFreak

Pit is Awesome :P
Changed the title, so people can stop *****ing about it

Run full HP on Ditto. Always. Since HP is the only stat that Ditto keeps when it Tranforms, you want to have as much as possible. Having 248 HP EVs only really helps if you switch in on 3 layers of Spikes multiple times, which shouldn't happen if you have a spinner. I'd also run Relaxed nature with minimum speed, since this will help ensure that you're opponent Struggles first in a Ditto war, which increases your chance of coming out alive.

As far as Ditto in the Ubers environment, I actually haven't been that impressed in the brief time that I've used it. The popularity of some Calm Mind users, such as the different CM Arceus variants, really hurts Ditto's chances. It's also important to remember that Ubers is full not only of offensive monsters, but defensive behemoths as well. For example, you might Transform into a Blaziken only to be threatened by a Giratina, Lugia, or Kyorge, depending on which STAB you decide to lock yourself into. You might also Transform into DD Rayquaza, only to either be killed off by Steel Arceus if you decide to spam Outrage or smacked down miserably by Giratina-O if you try Overheat or Earthquake. It's not that Ditto is bad, but I do think that it has a hard time taking advantage of opposing Uber sweepers.

First off, thank you JF for some actual discussion, and not complaining about the title like everyone else. We need more users to follow his example

I personally like using the 248 HP EVs, but I get your point, I'll change that now. It already is Relaxed, unless you mean 0 Spd IVs, which screws up your hidden power

Ditto in ubers make a great check to certain Pokemon in Ubers, such a Rayquaza that has a Dragon Dance or two, or a Shell Smash Pokemon, such as Dialga, after it got the boosts. This means you can not only revenge kill the Dialga, but since most BP teams don't run a steel, you can prob win with it. Makes a great revenge killer to certain threats, so you don't have to worry about certain revenge killers, and since it isn't weak weak to rocks, if played right it can last a while. I also get your point, but isn't ditto like that in every tier? It makes a above average revenge killer, and it could sweep a team as well!
 

ParaChomp

be your own guru
The tiers are based on usage, no? If so, do you think Ditto will be the trump card that shall be stuck in NU no matter how much usage it gets?

Aside from that, everything that needs to be said has been said. I agree that this thread should be changed to typical Ditto discussion as it always plays the same way no matter what tier. That said, I have an idea for a strategy using Ditto without a Choice Scarf but with a Life Orb and utilizing a defensive Scizor with Tailwind, U-turn, and minimum Speed on my team. Thoughts?
 

Ultimate Champion

The Great Pokémon Master
Ditto in Übers owns. It singlehandedly renders Smeargle's dreaded Shell Smash + Baton Pass strategy useless, and makes all Pokémon with stat-raising moves, except for Calm Mind users, think twice before setting up. Another use which Ditto has, that is often overlooked, is its ability to set up Spikes for teams that normally don't have a Pokémon that can use this move. Spikes is one of the most dangerous moves in Übers, as Ferrothorn especially tends to get ample opportunities to set it up thanks to the number of Pokémon it walls, the prevalence of rain, as well as the fact that it is near-impossible to take out quickly under that weather, and Spikes are also extremely difficult to remove due to the existence of Arceus-Ghost and the two Formes of Giratina. Against many teams, especially rain teams, which tend to lack the power to KO Ferrothorn quickly, Spikes is even more devastating than Stealth Rock from my experience, and easily puts the user of that team at a huge disadvantage, but with Ditto, one can put three layers of Spikes on the opponent's field as well in order to even the battle against someone who abuses Spikes, without having to actually being forced to use a Pokémon that can naturally learn this move (as such a Pokémon may not fit well on all teams).
 

Ninja Dewott

Ice Cold Fire
So this Ditto War...

As fascinating as it sounds, why not just switch out? Would that mean that the opponent's Ditto would transform into whatever you've sent out? Confused...
 

Phoopes

There it is.
So this Ditto War...

As fascinating as it sounds, why not just switch out? Would that mean that the opponent's Ditto would transform into whatever you've sent out? Confused...

No, Imposter only works on the switch-in, meaning that your opponent would have to use Transform or switch out, giving you a free turn to do something useful.
 
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